My Cat Charlie - Pancreatitis? Lost alot of weight and Little appetite

SnugglesAnn

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Messages
78
Reaction score
124
One thing I did want to add, and probably the most important, love up on Charlie. If Charlie is happy right now and eating, look at that as a blessing given to him and to you, rather than worrying that tomorrow or in a few weeks or in a few months it may change. A friend of mine reminded me of that when I initially took Oliver in. Each day is a gift and none of us really know how long our kitties will be with us. Try not to let your sadness of what he has been diagnosed with overshadow the time you have with him. ❤❤
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
6,289
Reaction score
10,601
Don’t underestimate sitting with Charlie at meal time and encouraging him to eat with pets and reassurance. During the worst of Krista’s pancreatitis, I would sometimes hand feed her a few bites of food until she gave up. Then I’d record that amount in her food journal and we’d try again in a few hours. I sometimes fed her 6-8 times a day to make sure she was getting enough to eat when she wasn’t eating so much at once. But that was pancreatitis. She had to eat to get better and she eventually did. Powdering up bonito fish flakes and using that as a topper also got Krista to eat. I fed her a lot of fish and it wasn’t always good for her. And that’s IBD. A lot of foods and food ingredients she just couldn’t have or she’d have problems with it on one end or the other. In some ways, the lymphoma was easier. And the steroids were much harder on her body than the chemo medicine. If I had an internal medicine specialist, we might have tapered the steroids earlier and given her a better chance to regain weight. A longer remission. 😿😭
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #63

miguel99nyc

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
253
Reaction score
98
One thing I did want to add, and probably the most important, love up on Charlie. If Charlie is happy right now and eating, look at that as a blessing given to him and to you, rather than worrying that tomorrow or in a few weeks or in a few months it may change. A friend of mine reminded me of that when I initially took Oliver in. Each day is a gift and none of us really know how long our kitties will be with us. Try not to let your sadness of what he has been diagnosed with overshadow the time you have with him. ❤❤
Thank you and yes I agree.

It's just mentally I'm not as strong as I should be. I felt so horrible not being able to afford his brother of same age 4 years ago his MRI because he developed head tilting and then soon after could not even stand or eat. If I did the mri maybe we could have saved him but finding was not available. He was Charlie brother and hurt me more that theh did so many things together. Play together and such. But somehow he accepted his death and wasnt all depressed. He acted normal.

Fast forward to now, hurts bad because charlie was completely normal up to a few weeks ago and we all thought and hoped was something minor that he would get over it. Now just seem soo hopeless because we cant afford to do biopsy, let alone treatment. So we deciding to care for him as long we can or until he shows clear signs of suffering then we make him sleep.

But what gets to me was that we were planning on moving out of our apartment to an actual.house. we felt charlie would have loved it because he loves being at windows and maybe even be out on a garden. Now we know that wontnever happen.

Secondly even with my other older cat at 18 I didnt even think she would outlast Charlie and with her kidney disease. Now when Charlie is gone will be just sassy and how it was before we got charlie and his brother years ago.

But then in wonder how charlie began to eat more in past few days than when last week he would barely eat and hide under table?

And in future what else could be done to prevent such horrible diseases? Maybe it ran in his family? Because my elder cat sassy she was from whole other family I assume. If I got another kitten in future I'd want to avoid this horrible disease.
 

SnugglesAnn

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Messages
78
Reaction score
124
Thank you and yes I agree.

It's just mentally I'm not as strong as I should be. I felt so horrible not being able to afford his brother of same age 4 years ago his MRI because he developed head tilting and then soon after could not even stand or eat. If I did the mri maybe we could have saved him but finding was not available. He was Charlie brother and hurt me more that theh did so many things together. Play together and such. But somehow he accepted his death and wasnt all depressed. He acted normal.

Fast forward to now, hurts bad because charlie was completely normal up to a few weeks ago and we all thought and hoped was something minor that he would get over it. Now just seem soo hopeless because we cant afford to do biopsy, let alone treatment. So we deciding to care for him as long we can or until he shows clear signs of suffering then we make him sleep.

But what gets to me was that we were planning on moving out of our apartment to an actual.house. we felt charlie would have loved it because he loves being at windows and maybe even be out on a garden. Now we know that wontnever happen.

Secondly even with my other older cat at 18 I didnt even think she would outlast Charlie and with her kidney disease. Now when Charlie is gone will be just sassy and how it was before we got charlie and his brother years ago.

But then in wonder how charlie began to eat more in past few days than when last week he would barely eat and hide under table?

And in future what else could be done to prevent such horrible diseases? Maybe it ran in his family? Because my elder cat sassy she was from whole other family I assume. If I got another kitten in future I'd want to avoid this horrible disease.
I remember when Anastasia got sick, I had just graduated from college, was a single mom, and had very little money at the time. I took her to the vet and had the money for the bloodwork, etc. but I would never have been able to afford extensive treatment of any kind, even if they had discovered something treatable. With Snuggles, I think I let my guilt of not being able to save Anastasia as a guiding factor in doing whatever I needed to do to keep Snuggles alive. But sometimes that's not necessarily the best thing for them. With Oliver, I think it may have been a blessing I didn't know what was going on with him until at the last.

We don't want to feel like we're giving up on them or that we failed them. But look at how much you have already done for Charlie. He has had such a good life. A long life. The biopsy won't do anything but tell you what you already know and cause him more pain. And I don't believe for one minute that if you knew something would cure him for good, that you wouldn't find some way to make it happen for him.

I have thought often about how I could have prevented my cats' illnesses. But we can't. We really can't. We can try it all, but we can't prevent everything. And I do believe a lot of it is genetics. Just like with people. There are many people, including children, that end up with cancer and other diseases that just can't be explained. To be honest, until I found this site, I never knew just how many diseases cats can get. And it's not just older cats, but young ones as well.

I also think of all the things that Oliver would have loved as well, but no matter what disease they pass away from or if they just pass of old age, there are always things we can think of that we wish they were here to enjoy. I try to think of it this way though- Oliver can look at the whole world now. I picture him chasing lizards all of the time. He's got everything he needs and everything he wants.

I guess that all goes back to just cherishing the time we do have with them. Charlie is still with you. And it sounds like he is doing well right now. Just live in the present, not the future. Love him and love him some more. Spoil him plain rotten. ❤❤
 
Last edited:

JC fka JClark

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Aug 28, 2020
Messages
30
Reaction score
10
Hello,

Here's an update...and currently am not feeling so well emotionally because it was such horrible news :(

Basically after the ultrasound(attaching picture of result), our vet has deemed that he has some form of cancer mass in intestinal, possibly lymphoma, but the next steps would be to do a biopsy. I got a quote for it and its astronomically high :(.

At the same time I tried speaking to him again short while ago but he gave me such a cold shoulder it seemed like he rushed me off and now I'm thinking if I should go to another vet(s) for opinion.

I asked about the biopsy procedure, also asked about what else could be done. He basically said since he has some form of cancer, that nothing else he can do other then to refer to an octologist that treats cancer? Apparently my local vet can't provide that chemotherapy to cure him. I had asked about how come Prednisolone in a way the shot looked like it initially worked? But then after giving him the pill daily for few days after, he didin't look so well at times if not, worse? And now that since last Friday he had been off of it, and also off the Mirtazapine since Sunday since I thought it didn't help him? What is it that made him seem and act bit more normal-self these past few days, eating nearly same amount he has in the past, and saw him walk around more and not hiding in places? I asked him but he simply said I don't know, and that all pets are different that some pets would show symptoms and other wont.Again, cold shoulder...so I just said thanks and hung up. He mentioned he could still remaind on prednisolone but that won't cure him he said. Otherwise if I chose to not do biopsy nor specialist, that we can monitor is quality of life and once it deteriorates then to put him to sleep. And thinking of that hurts me the most! :(

I had a feeling he had something possibly as bad as cancer because of his lost weight...and I still want to refuse it just because it seems he wants to do that biopsy and get more money. If anyone else can give me input and helpful thoughts would be appreciated. Even now since Charlie didn't eat whole morning because of ultrasound, he came out of his bag running to kitchen to eat his food. But if he really has cancer, not only to cure it seems like I got to spend alot more money just for his biopsy, then who knows what the specialist + treatment will cost after as well. I thought Charlie was on his way to getting better but to get this such news, it hurts alot and my whole family. Plus, I just don't get how blood work and Xrays can all be normal, and now still be inconclusive even with the Ultrasound.
IMO it sounds like Pred and Mirtazapine were temporarily masking the actual condition. We as humans always look for the smallest sign that a pet or loved one is recovering so it doesn't help that cats are masters at hiding health issues. It's possible that he appeared to be getting better simply because he felt less worse. Your vet is correct in that only with a biopsy can you be 100 percent sure but at this point does it really matter whether or not it's benign? It's still causing the cat problems. Right? Based on your cats age is chemotherapy an option? What is the cats life expectancy after chemotherapy? If ultimately chemotherapy isn't an option then you can manage the decline (kitty hospice). Just try to remember that cats are good at hiding how they feel. So when it's clear that a cat is not feeling well the discomfort is such that the cat can no longer hide it.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #66

miguel99nyc

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
253
Reaction score
98
IMO it sounds like Pred and Mirtazapine were temporarily masking the actual condition. We as humans always look for the smallest sign that a pet or loved one is recovering so it doesn't help that cats are masters at hiding health issues. It's possible that he appeared to be getting better simply because he felt less worse. Your vet is correct in that only with a biopsy can you be 100 percent sure but at this point does it really matter whether or not it's benign? It's still causing the cat problems. Right? Based on your cats age is chemotherapy an option? What is the cats life expectancy after chemotherapy? If ultimately chemotherapy isn't an option then you can manage the decline (kitty hospice). Just try to remember that cats are good at hiding how they feel. So when it's clear that a cat is not feeling well the discomfort is such that the cat can no longer hide it.
Thank you for the reply.

Well considering the way my vet talked back to me when I had questions yesterday afternoon, he did not want to offer any other solutions other then reffering to oncolagist, or doing a Biopsy which would only reveal what type of cancer it is? He said he can be on prednisolone but he wasn't responding to it initially so he said whats the purpose. He did mentioned chemotherapy would be basically another medication that is well tolerated by cats he said - little side effects, but he can't prescribe such medication and only a specialist could? So I guess he can go on that chemotherapy. He mentioned with chemotherapy he can last around 2-3 years additionaly he said. But from what I read online, seems that if he is without prednisolone he would be just around for a few weeks, or if on prednisolone at least, then maybe a few months? I was suggested on here also to not start and taper off prednisolone at my own consent because it would possibly hurt the cat. So I'm currently awaiting other vet locations I contacted yesterday see if they can offer a 2nd opinion with all the bloodwork, xrays and ultrasound performed on my cat.

What made me also wonder overnight last night was that based off the utlrasound, but I think for it to be 3.7CM mass which is about 1.5 INCHES, thats some kind of mass to be inside of a cat, let alone, his intestine/bowel? And yet the same vet told me last Tuesday upone feeling his organs and Xrays, he did not see any growth/cancer/tumor? How can such sized mass go undetected? And what kills me is what with this stupid covid virus, all locations here in NYC only allow to drop off the pets at door no one can go inside. So I have no idea what they really doing to him inside which sucks. I feel that this Vet has always been out for the money. I definitely not going to go with Biopsy because of Charlie's age but also, would only cause him more pain and discomfort I'm sure as he surely is already feeling discomfort.

Again what gets to me was that literally 2 weeks ago he was perfectly fine. I can recall he releases stool around our apartment but he been doing that for SO many years, MANY years and our vet back then would say its behavorial issue. At times he would do loose stool, some hard,always varied in color. Also he would throw up more often then not, USUALLY hairball with some liquid because he licks himself and has long hair? What was odd of late, or really in the past few weeks he hasn't thrown up his usual hairball, but instead he would throw up liquid after drinking water or even as of late, sometimes when he would use his litter box to either urinate or pass stool - he would then come out of bathroom and shortly after throw up. I wondered if the mass inside him was not cancerous or anythign harmful...but also would explain how he lost so much weight. We didnt even really notice it as much because of his long hair until we felt his hind legs and near his rear/tail area you could feel his bones. And with some feedback on here, seems like him staying away completely from his dry food (which he loved SO much just few weeks ago) and certain wet foods isn't so much because he's nausea perhaps or not hungy, but instead maybe he think it caused him the pain/discomfort which would only further suggest he isn't really going to recover either. He would eat these fresh cans I open up of Friskies Pate which has been his go to in the past, and as mentioned before what also is bit confusing is that last week he seemed totally out of it. After visit with vet, he would just sniff food and just hide/sleep underneath our dining table. Would barely move other then to use litter but then go back there. Then in past of couple of days he started to come out more and eat more surely, and even nowjumps on top of couch/bed to sleepthere too. So to my eyesit seemed he was getting slightly better? But not 100%. Then yesterday and even this morning he passed stool..but was rather small amount and thin though not Pencil thin, thinner then his usual amount. Oddly enough, when I had him on the prednisolone last week for few days, despite being super lethargic and not as much eating, he would pass stool just fine normal color and amount as well. So...its just all confusing. :(
 

JC fka JClark

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Aug 28, 2020
Messages
30
Reaction score
10
Thank you for the reply.

Well considering the way my vet talked back to me when I had questions yesterday afternoon, he did not want to offer any other solutions other then reffering to oncolagist, or doing a Biopsy which would only reveal what type of cancer it is? He said he can be on prednisolone but he wasn't responding to it initially so he said whats the purpose. He did mentioned chemotherapy would be basically another medication that is well tolerated by cats he said - little side effects, but he can't prescribe such medication and only a specialist could? So I guess he can go on that chemotherapy. He mentioned with chemotherapy he can last around 2-3 years additionaly he said. But from what I read online, seems that if he is without prednisolone he would be just around for a few weeks, or if on prednisolone at least, then maybe a few months? I was suggested on here also to not start and taper off prednisolone at my own consent because it would possibly hurt the cat. So I'm currently awaiting other vet locations I contacted yesterday see if they can offer a 2nd opinion with all the bloodwork, xrays and ultrasound performed on my cat.

What made me also wonder overnight last night was that based off the utlrasound, but I think for it to be 3.7CM mass which is about 1.5 INCHES, thats some kind of mass to be inside of a cat, let alone, his intestine/bowel? And yet the same vet told me last Tuesday upone feeling his organs and Xrays, he did not see any growth/cancer/tumor? How can such sized mass go undetected? And what kills me is what with this stupid covid virus, all locations here in NYC only allow to drop off the pets at door no one can go inside. So I have no idea what they really doing to him inside which sucks. I feel that this Vet has always been out for the money. I definitely not going to go with Biopsy because of Charlie's age but also, would only cause him more pain and discomfort I'm sure as he surely is already feeling discomfort.

Again what gets to me was that literally 2 weeks ago he was perfectly fine. I can recall he releases stool around our apartment but he been doing that for SO many years, MANY years and our vet back then would say its behavorial issue. At times he would do loose stool, some hard,always varied in color. Also he would throw up more often then not, USUALLY hairball with some liquid because he licks himself and has long hair? What was odd of late, or really in the past few weeks he hasn't thrown up his usual hairball, but instead he would throw up liquid after drinking water or even as of late, sometimes when he would use his litter box to either urinate or pass stool - he would then come out of bathroom and shortly after throw up. I wondered if the mass inside him was not cancerous or anythign harmful...but also would explain how he lost so much weight. We didnt even really notice it as much because of his long hair until we felt his hind legs and near his rear/tail area you could feel his bones. And with some feedback on here, seems like him staying away completely from his dry food (which he loved SO much just few weeks ago) and certain wet foods isn't so much because he's nausea perhaps or not hungy, but instead maybe he think it caused him the pain/discomfort which would only further suggest he isn't really going to recover either. He would eat these fresh cans I open up of Friskies Pate which has been his go to in the past, and as mentioned before what also is bit confusing is that last week he seemed totally out of it. After visit with vet, he would just sniff food and just hide/sleep underneath our dining table. Would barely move other then to use litter but then go back there. Then in past of couple of days he started to come out more and eat more surely, and even nowjumps on top of couch/bed to sleepthere too. So to my eyesit seemed he was getting slightly better? But not 100%. Then yesterday and even this morning he passed stool..but was rather small amount and thin though not Pencil thin, thinner then his usual amount. Oddly enough, when I had him on the prednisolone last week for few days, despite being super lethargic and not as much eating, he would pass stool just fine normal color and amount as well. So...its just all confusing. :(
X-Ray's don't always reveal everything which is why sometimes there's a follow up with ultrasound but I agree i would've rather just spent the $$ on an ultrasound. Plus there's an art to reading X-Rays anyways. As for the sudden onset of illness from what I've read that's very common. It happens with people after all. Just remember, assuming the diagnosis is accurate, ultimately your cat will never have a chance of improvement without chemotherapy or surgery. There's no guarantee unfortunately.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #68

miguel99nyc

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
253
Reaction score
98
X-Ray's don't always reveal everything which is why sometimes there's a follow up with ultrasound but I agree i would've rather just spent the $$ on an ultrasound. Plus there's an art to reading X-Rays anyways. As for the sudden onset of illness from what I've read that's very common. It happens with people after all. Just remember, assuming the diagnosis is accurate, ultimately your cat will never have a chance of improvement without chemotherapy or surgery. There's no guarantee unfortunately.
Yes I'm trying to look into finding a oncologist nearby me so they can further help with just possibly medications. I was just reading up seems like Prednisolone and Cherumbacil seem to be way to go possibly as for medications but obviously an oncologist would suggest it. I had hoped he had Pancreatitis in some way beacuse last year he had stopped eating too, but it was because of Pancreatitis. he was on prednisolone for about a week or two but then it cleared up as he was re-tested and he was completely fine after. It seemed so likely to me that was the cause initially...but turns out somehow the bloodtest done in office for Pancreatitis was false positive as it said he tested positive for it, but then the Precision PSL came back normal? I still found that odd.
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
6,289
Reaction score
10,601
There are several different chemo protocols. You essentially need to know what kind of cancer it is before a protocol can be selected.

If chlorambucil is selected as the chemo drug, my Krista tolerated that one very well. I never noticed any side effects—aside from the presenting symptoms until remission achieved—except maybe a touch of lethargy for a day. Maybe less.

But yes. Please find a specialist, an oncologist, or even a second vet willing to work with you on the medication protocol. Don’t freestyle with the steroids. You can do more harm than good by giving them haphazardly. He may still need them and they may still do him good. But I want you to work with a vet who doesn’t say 🤷‍♂️. That drug is too powerful to just pill and pray. I would like to see the doctor set forth a plan of treatment. In the meantime, you can pick up some CBD and use that as an anti inflammatory drug. It’s quite safe to start and stop and give CBD as needed. Though it is most effective when given consistently over a period of time. However, do not mix CBD and steroids without a doctor’s guidance. The CBD can interfere/compete with the metabolism/detoxification of the steroid drug.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #70

miguel99nyc

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
253
Reaction score
98
Also, if anyone else has ideas about reviewing xrays and bloodwork, I attach them here for possible feedback as well. I just received them finally from our vet. See if these results lead to something?
 

Attachments

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #71

miguel99nyc

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
253
Reaction score
98
Wow, can you believe this.

So I've been searching around for Oncologists and found a few but one at least says they need a referral. So I asked my vet's location for that referral and the vet himself wrote back to me saying I need to perform their Biopsy, spend 2,000$+ so the oncologist knows what hes treating. So now I'm left without getting that referral...
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
6,289
Reaction score
10,601
Frustrating. Yes.

But it does make sense.

Maybe you can find an internal medicine specialist who can work with the diagnostics that you have already. S/he probably won't be able to recommend chemo. But s/he may help you with constructing a pred protocol and prescriptions for any other meds he might need--Cerenia or Zofran for nausea and maybe bupe for pain if the specialist thinks there might be pain. If nothing else, the internal medicine specialist can give you his/her opinion on the biopsy. Ask them, "if this was your cat, what would you do?"
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #73

miguel99nyc

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
253
Reaction score
98
Frustrating. Yes.

But it does make sense.

Maybe you can find an internal medicine specialist who can work with the diagnostics that you have already. S/he probably won't be able to recommend chemo. But s/he may help you with constructing a pred protocol and prescriptions for any other meds he might need--Cerenia or Zofran for nausea and maybe bupe for pain if the specialist thinks there might be pain. If nothing else, the internal medicine specialist can give you his/her opinion on the biopsy. Ask them, "if this was your cat, what would you do?"
Sorry but, but aren't oncologists specialize in such diagnosis? I mean he literally did say that without seeing an oncologist, Charlie would not get better at all .So how am I supposed to see one (that requires referral), and be forced to do a biopsy? Afterall I was suggested for Charlie's sake beacuse of age and suffering, to have him biopsy may not be ideal, never thought or heard was a MUST to see an oncologist. Unless its something I need to do more research and fine one that DOESN'T require referral?

I mean I do understand it makes sense, but it truly seems they are just milking money out of me. And so if I don't pay $2,700, I got to let my pet die faster or even with an Internal Medicine specialist, it will just be medications to suppress symptoms but not really recover. I just don't get it.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #74

miguel99nyc

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
253
Reaction score
98
And also, before I put my Vet on blast here in my response back to him, wouldn't such a large mass of nearly 1.5" in his intestine/small bowel be something that can be felt?? Because he clearly told me upon initial checkup last week he felt no large mass upon feeling his body so...I don't know how something that large can be missed? This would be to solely point out he just went after my money and potentially wasted doing Xrays at least and not go straight to ultrasound.
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
6,289
Reaction score
10,601
I don't believe they are just out for money. Medical educations, procedures, staff, facilities, equipment, and insurance (for the professional not the patient) all costs $$$. These expenses aren't any cheaper just because the patient is smaller.

I believe if he was able to confirm cancer and what kind of cancer cells they are, he wouldn't put your cat through a biopsy. Did you ask him what it could be if it wasn't cancer?

What kind of biopsy did he say he wanted to perform? A fine needle aspirate may not come with any kind of recovery period. But an endoscopy would be a lot more invasive. If you want to try chemo, you'll need to confirm that it's cancer and know what kind of cells so you know what kind of drugs would be most effective.

You might start with an internal medicine specialist. Do a consultation with the records you already have and see what he thinks. Because he's a specialist, he'll spend more time with you. He's not booked wall-to-wall with one patient after another and several more drop-ins waiting for "as available" care. But specialists often don't book very many consultations in a day. So I'd start looking for one now because it could be a few weeks before you can meet with one.

There's also the Vitality Science and CBD options while you're looking for the next appropriate professional or procedure.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #76

miguel99nyc

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
253
Reaction score
98
Ok I just had to email my vet back because it really left a bad taste inside me, and was very angry. He responded back, completely changed his tone(at least from my point of view) and wrote:

Hi, thanks for reaching out. By all means you can consult an oncologist at any time, that is your prerogative . The problem is, that the oncologist is limited on how they can help without the biopsy. You can contact the oncologist, and please let me know what he has to say. Should you wish to discuss this with me further, I would be more than happy to speak with you by phone after the weekend. We know how difficult this is for you and we want to help you make the decisions that are best for you and Charlie.

So now I'm somewhat relived, he also gave me the contact info for the oncologist to I guess either consult or get an appointment. But I want to be sure, of course Biopsy would clearly indicate the right path/direction to treat the issue as the testing would determine specifically what we dealing with, but since he is an Oncologist, without a biopsy and based off the ultrasound results and Xrays and blood, he can possibly approach it not only safely but in somewhat the right direction just because it's his expertise and would know more then our local vet?
 
Last edited:

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
6,289
Reaction score
10,601
There are more than one kind of lymphoma that can be in his intestines. Without the biopsy, you can't be certain which one you're dealing with and that complicates chemo drug selection. But consulting either an IM or onc. will give you another set of eyes on the tests you've run already. And the oncologist or the IM may be able to give you some scenarios and possible outcomes which can help you make a more informed decision. I don't expect the oncologist will be able to say much more without a biopsy. But reaching out to him is free and a consultation wouldn't be without value.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #78

miguel99nyc

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
253
Reaction score
98
There are more than one kind of lymphoma that can be in his intestines. Without the biopsy, you can't be certain which one you're dealing with and that complicates chemo drug selection. But consulting either an IM or onc. will give you another set of eyes on the tests you've run already. And the oncologist or the IM may be able to give you some scenarios and possible outcomes which can help you make a more informed decision. I don't expect the oncologist will be able to say much more without a biopsy. But reaching out to him is free and a consultation wouldn't be without value.
Sorry, but how come there's a 180 here on this subject on not going through biopsy because its painful and possibly not worth it, but now seems like there's not much of answer I''ll get from oncologist because the lack of biopsy? As if it's required? I totally understand that its obviously needed to determine the exact type of cancer/mass it is... but at the same time, did not know there's like a whole load variety of different medications/therapy that are designated specifically to treat a specific type of cancer? At first with past feed back, I was under impression that there wer some kind of like "overal" medications to treat/help aside from just Prednisolone. Let alone, not wanting to actually go through the biopsy because of how invasive it is and complications as well.
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
6,289
Reaction score
10,601
Sorry, but how come there's a 180 here on this subject on not going through biopsy because its painful and possibly not worth it, but now seems like there's not much of answer I''ll get from oncologist because the lack of biopsy? As if it's required? I totally understand that its obviously needed to determine the exact type of cancer/mass it is... but at the same time, did not know there's like a whole load variety of different medications/therapy that are designated specifically to treat a specific type of cancer? At first with past feed back, I was under impression that there wer some kind of like "overal" medications to treat/help aside from just Prednisolone. Let alone, not wanting to actually go through the biopsy because of how invasive it is and complications as well.
An oncologist would best be able to answer your questions about cancer. But an IM should also have answers. They’ll both be limited in their answers and recommendations without the biopsy. You can still consult with them and I think you should. Ask them to build a tree of possible diagnoses, treatment options, and typical outcomes. You may be able to try a couple of things without the biopsy knowing that you are flying blind and taking that risk.

With biopsy, you get confirmation of whether it is a cancerous mass, if so what kind, and based on that the drugs that would be most effective.

Without biopsy, you don’t even know if that’s cancerous. And if it is, you could be trying to treat it with less effective drugs.

One of the specialist will be able to describe what kind of biopsy would be most appropriate, the risks, and typical outcomes.

At the end of the day, we’re just a bunch of random people on the internet here. You should decide the care for your cat based on consultation with the specialists who are educated, qualified, and capable to provide that care.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #80

miguel99nyc

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
253
Reaction score
98
Understood. Sorry it was not my intention to call out or mean anything wrongful of you or anyone on here. This whole process is just confusing let alone at first, seemed like my vet was not willing to be as helpful.

Long story short I just called the hospital my vet recommended/reffered. One thing they said is the oncologist is leaving that place in few weeks, so it was best to consult another oncologist of same hospital chain (different location) to stick to one oncologist as opposed to going to this one that will leave hospital in few weeks, then have another oncologist jump in which may have different methods. So that made sense.

But I got the same result, that an oncologist will need that biopsy done to determine what type of cancer/mass it is, if it even is cancerous or not, then from there make recommendations for treatment. So it leaves me no choice. The hosptial was kind enough to inform me maybe its best to do biopsy at the vet if they do it because costs at the hospital will be like twice the charges..But i figured it would be higher beacuse its a hospital. They did mention that if it wasnt cancerious and just a tumor or non cancerious growth, either medication or even surgery to remove it would make him possibly on road to recovery.

So while I still cross fingers its not cancerous, I will contact our vet Monday morning to schedule it and also at same time go over what are the risks/complications from such procedure as I'm sure there is some kind? That was my only fear, that I did the biopsy but somehow with bad luck, something goes wrong and gets worse or dies from it? I believe it is a needle type but will confirm once Monday comes. Cost may be high but again thankfully I have him on insurance and they did say cancer is covered and any procedures/specialist visits are as well so I get reimbursed.
 
Top