My Cat Charlie - Pancreatitis? Lost alot of weight and Little appetite

daftcat75

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Whether he’s eating because of pred or because of mirtz or both, it’s all because of side effects of the medication until you know what the underlying cause is and you address that. Share all your observations with the vet.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Whether he’s eating because of pred or because of mirtz or both, it’s all because of side effects of the medication until you know what the underlying cause is and you address that. Share all your observations with the vet.
Not as successful today...almost beginning to think he's becoming beyond finicky for what food he wants? I made him sniff this can he used to like gave it few licks walked away, then I opened a new kind of Pate for him and he ate though not as much. And this is with giving him Mirtazapine about 3 hours ago.

Despite him walking around today like normal and not hiding, is it possible or such thing the Mirtazapine is not working or strong enough? Because currently I believe its a 2mg pill broken down 1/4 bits so I guess about 0.5mg each bit. It's just so confusing (and vet not open Sundays...) but aside from him not being as vocal as my other cat would get from the same dosage of Mirtazapine, It hasn't really made him Ravenous as it did for my cat, nowhere near it if its an appetite stimulant. It feels like he just gets full quick as he eats but with the small amounts he eats he won't gain any weight back or worse, keep losing weight. And now after today, it worries me yet again that now even with this Mirtazapine it didnt really make him that hungry. He pets his can and comes to kitchen crying for food like the old days but...I don't know at this point.
 

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Remember. We still have no idea what we’re dealing with. We’re most likely trying to stimulate his appetite without addressing nausea (or pain.) Hang in there tonight. Call the vet tomorrow and discuss with him whether to continue the pred, whether the mirtz dose needs to be adjusted, and if an anti-nausea should be added to get him to the ultrasound.
 

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Remember. We still have no idea what we’re dealing with. We’re most likely trying to stimulate his appetite without addressing nausea (or pain.) Hang in there tonight. Call the vet tomorrow and discuss with him whether to continue the pred, whether the mirtz dose needs to be adjusted, and if an anti-nausea should be added to get him to the ultrasound.
You may also ask for a few doses of buprenorphine. If you give him a bupe and feed him an hour later and he plows straight through his portion, you might be dealing with a pain issue.
 
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miguel99nyc

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You may also ask for a few doses of buprenorphine. If you give him a bupe and feed him an hour later and he plows straight through his portion, you might be dealing with a pain issue.
Yes I wll call vet first thing tomorrow morning. He ate alittle bit more little while ago...but not enough to say Mirtazpine worked. I think though overall he ate about his typical amount today again. But now I noticed his ears feel quite warm to touch maybe he's getting a fever. But I will call to check.
 
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I had just gotten home from work and missed opportunity to speak with Vet's office but I got emailed and says for ultrasounds ,Charlie has to stop eating since 10pm?? His appointment is at 930am Thursday morning and the last thing he should eat is by 10pm the night before. Does that sound right? i feel bad bit because Charlie, without mirtazapine and his prednosoline has been eating kinda well especially in the mornings since Sunday morning and surely he'd be hungry THursday morning. Little by little hes been coming around again without use of any pill though today I heard he had used his litter box to urinate, then came out to throw up the little food he had just ate maybe 30 min or so prior to using litter. He had been doing that on and off in the past weeks too.
 

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I had just gotten home from work and missed opportunity to speak with Vet's office but I got emailed and says for ultrasounds ,Charlie has to stop eating since 10pm?? His appointment is at 930am Thursday morning and the last thing he should eat is by 10pm the night before. Does that sound right? i feel bad bit because Charlie, without mirtazapine and his prednosoline has been eating kinda well especially in the mornings since Sunday morning and surely he'd be hungry THursday morning. Little by little hes been coming around again without use of any pill though today I heard he had used his litter box to urinate, then came out to throw up the little food he had just ate maybe 30 min or so prior to using litter. He had been doing that on and off in the past weeks too.
Please mention that he throws up after using the litter box to the vet. That could be significant.

It will be hard for the ultrasound to get a good picture if there's food in his gut. That's why he needs to be fasted.

Big picture. It's just one night and day out of his life. He'll get over it.
 
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Hello,

Here's an update...and currently am not feeling so well emotionally because it was such horrible news :(

Basically after the ultrasound(attaching picture of result), our vet has deemed that he has some form of cancer mass in intestinal, possibly lymphoma, but the next steps would be to do a biopsy. I got a quote for it and its astronomically high :(.

At the same time I tried speaking to him again short while ago but he gave me such a cold shoulder it seemed like he rushed me off and now I'm thinking if I should go to another vet(s) for opinion.

I asked about the biopsy procedure, also asked about what else could be done. He basically said since he has some form of cancer, that nothing else he can do other then to refer to an octologist that treats cancer? Apparently my local vet can't provide that chemotherapy to cure him. I had asked about how come Prednisolone in a way the shot looked like it initially worked? But then after giving him the pill daily for few days after, he didin't look so well at times if not, worse? And now that since last Friday he had been off of it, and also off the Mirtazapine since Sunday since I thought it didn't help him? What is it that made him seem and act bit more normal-self these past few days, eating nearly same amount he has in the past, and saw him walk around more and not hiding in places? I asked him but he simply said I don't know, and that all pets are different that some pets would show symptoms and other wont.Again, cold shoulder...so I just said thanks and hung up. He mentioned he could still remaind on prednisolone but that won't cure him he said. Otherwise if I chose to not do biopsy nor specialist, that we can monitor is quality of life and once it deteriorates then to put him to sleep. And thinking of that hurts me the most! :(

I had a feeling he had something possibly as bad as cancer because of his lost weight...and I still want to refuse it just because it seems he wants to do that biopsy and get more money. If anyone else can give me input and helpful thoughts would be appreciated. Even now since Charlie didn't eat whole morning because of ultrasound, he came out of his bag running to kitchen to eat his food. But if he really has cancer, not only to cure it seems like I got to spend alot more money just for his biopsy, then who knows what the specialist + treatment will cost after as well. I thought Charlie was on his way to getting better but to get this such news, it hurts alot and my whole family. Plus, I just don't get how blood work and Xrays can all be normal, and now still be inconclusive even with the Ultrasound.
 

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daftcat75

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Can you call the vet back and ask whether the sonographer thinks it may be large cell or small cell lymphoma? If it's large cell, the prognosis isn't great. If it is small cell, that one has a better outlook.

My Krista had small cell lymphoma--or rather, it was "suspected IBD or small cell lymphoma." A biopsy was recommended to determine which one it was. In Krista's case, we started first with prednisilone which got her eating like a mad woman but still her stools were liquid and she continued to lose weight. At this point, I had to go over my vet's head to her boss and the owner and founder of the practice to say, "look. She's 15, eating well, losing weight, and pred isn't working. At this point, I believe the diagnosis--the biopsy--would be riskier than just adding chemo to her medicine regimen." He agreed with me. Her stools cleared up almost overnight and the weight loss slowed to a crawl. She didn't quite reach a remission because I kept halving her pred pills and wrapping each half in fish flakes to get her to take the pills herself. The fish flakes were an inflammatory trigger food. I thought maybe the pred would counteract that, and it did to some degree. But she didn't achieve remission until I fully removed the fish flakes from her diet. Her last month or so on this Earth she spent in remission and that makes me somewhat relieved. But she had lost too much weight getting to remission that a bladder infection became too much for her. Looking back, her quality of life didn't dip too low until those last few days. I think we both--she and me--believed there was more fight left in her until that last night. The next morning, I believed she could be turned around with a inpatient stay with IV fluids and antibiotics. But she passed a couple hours after I dropped her off. I had a nagging hunch that might be the case and spent a few "final" moments with her in the car before the hand-off, just in case.

Whether you put Charlie to sleep to end his suffering (now or in the future), or you let him fight this to the end, either decision is going to haunt you afterwards with ifs, shoulds, and regrets. Please try to keep the big picture in mind here. He had a wonderfully long life; well-fed and well-loved. That's more than many cats can say. You can continue to pursue this with a specialist or an oncologist. You can also ask whether he can be given chemo without the biopsy. But that would depend on the nature of the suspected lymphoma and the chemo protocol suggested for it.

Or you can switch to hospice mode and let him live out his days as comfortable as you can make them until his quality of life is no longer acceptable. As long as he tolerates the medicines well, I would ask about Cerenia for nausea and buprenorphine for pain in addition to the mirtazapine and prednisilone you're already giving. An internal medicine specialist would probably have the best idea for a medication protocol for him now. You can ask to have all his records transferred so you don't have to re-do diagnostic tests.

Feline Quality Of Life Scale
quality-of-life-scale.jpg
 
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miguel99nyc

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I'm sorry the news wasn't better. 😿
Thank You. I spent the whole afternoon crying and still am now :(

I understand the whole part about acknowledging we gave him a home for 15 years , had somewhat healthy life as he had surgery like about 8 years ago to remove crystals form bladder plus the fact that my father 15 years ago had brought him to our apartment from the streets basically along with his brother (who was put to sleep at much younger age 5 years ago because he had some head tilting and could no long walk nor eat). But what gets to me is that he was such a healthy cat who loved sprinting around, jumping around even to a month ago we were like, wow at 15 yet he acted like a young kitten still remarkably, used to sleep with my mother on her bed or even recently on her lap :( but now to know that will all end rather soon hurts so much. Yet I thought he would be the last one standing for some time now since all I had left was him and my current 18 yr old female Cat Sassy whom was diagnosed with early CKD about 3 years ago but she's been doing ok so far since, and now seems like she will be the last one remaining, at 18!! :( I really thought Charlie was going to make it all this time, did not even suspect he would get such disease :( Even right now as I type I'm crying just hurts so much.

But going back to the diagnosis, yeah I dont think I can even ask my vet to ask the sonographer as he really just seems not helpful atm. Let alone, if he can't even determine it because sonographer wrote to do biopsy, chances are they won't know if its small cell or large cell.

I was thinking of remaining of the prednisolone probably only as he still was hungry today despite not taking that pill since last Friday. Not even Mirtazapine. But the part I guess I can't figure out is if I took him to specialist, don't really know how they can determine proper chemo without knowing what it is exactly. They might take a guess but I just searched and none seem to be good in my area either :( So I might just be left to give him prednisolone and just let him fight it until the end. :( but it just hurts so much, i so wish it was just IBD so he can be on just meds that will relieve his symptoms but still give him life for a few more years. Now I sense he just suffering so much or will sooner or later, but fact that he was trying to act normal these past days which was far better then last week, was confusing to me and made me think positive perhaps ultrasound would find nothing and he was already on his way to recover. Now it seems like he won't recover at all :( I guess based of what your thoughts was and this ultrasound result.
 
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miguel99nyc

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I'm sorry the news wasn't better. 😿
But I also take it, that not just this ultrasound was not any better news, but it does confirm at least it is Cancer and not IBD by any chance, and does confirm his life will ultimately end?
 

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Fifteen years is an excellent run for a cat of any health. My Cabernet, before Krista, only saw 8. I had to put her to sleep when a very aggressive mouth cancer put her off food, and had her hiding all weekend. Back then, I didn't have the financial resources to take her to an oncologist or any specialists. But I was also reading back then there wasn't much to be done for that type of cancer. I suspect it is the same with Charlie.

Usually IBD presents as vomiting or poop issues or both. I believe it's rare that it presents only as appetite issues. That could definitely be the mass in his gut causing him pain, making him nauseated, or both. Since he's older, not eating, and losing weight, unless the biopsy would confirm something treatable with a decent prognosis, I'm not sure I'd put him through it. Especially because the surgery itself will affect his appetite and come with a recovery period.

You might ask your vet if you can get the sonographer's email address. Or you take the ultrasound picture and notes to an internal medicine specialist and see if he can give a second opinion.

To biopsy or not to biopsy, to chemo or not to chemo, these should come down to, "is this treatable? what's the prognosis? and what is the quality of life with or without these procedures and protocols?" I would use those three questions to navigate all decisions from here.
 
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miguel99nyc

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Well actually that's the thing. His appetite seems to have come back since being off the meds oddly enough. I did read up on IBD as well and honestly he has had poop problem and throw up problems more often than not - as previously mentioned he tended to throw up after using litter box but only passes stool little by little at the time. Sometimes loose, sometimes normal. Sometimes running around leaving drops of stool around our apartment like in this morning case, he did very little in his box and actually left a stool drop in my bed room. But he has been like that for so many years though for I can remember.

Again (which i asked but vet but said literally he doesn't know), his appetite was diminishing last week prior to taking him in, then soon after(with our without prednisolone), he began to eat little by little and specific foods too. He also USED to love eating his dry food but since last week he had stopped completely. He would sniff it and walk away but if I opened a fresh new can, he'd eat that. And I think I can say he is now eating his usual amount he has in the past, especially the last 2-3 days, and again doesn't really hide as he was last week which is what confuses me. He was just grooming himself short while ago like he used to, and seems to be laying down comfortable in his box - stretched out with his paws out in the air like his good old self. So that is what makes me wonder you know? and confusing me as I would definitely see as for his appetite he is doing much better than last week - don't know if it was some cancer, that he can get better but then get worse? But then again, there is that mass that clearly can't be a result of IBD or something that won't end his life :( . If there was no mass, then surely Prednisolone would work at least to reduce that inflammation. And while he seems to be acting somewhat normal now compared to last week - makes me feel like I can just continue on like this until he gets worse.

I too agree with the biopsy. I don't believe I will go for it because of his age, but mnostly because it is a surgical procedure so if he has finnicky appetite, I can't imagine how much harder will be to feed him esp. with that cone on his head after, let alone use the litter box or sleep comfortably. Plus surely the recovery time as you said WILL be probably extensive - let alone who knows how much time he has left.

I do plan on sending these results and hope another local vet can analyze it and give me other opinions. Perhaps I can put him back on the Prednisolone for now until one of the vets I emailed responds back to me.
 

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Please don't start and stop the Prednisilone at will. Steroids aren't meant to be given "as needed." There is usually a protocol for how long to give them initially, and then a tapering off period, either tapering off slowly to stop altogether, or tapering down to a more manageable long-term protocol. Preferably not daily steroids for the long-term. If he doesn't need them right now to eat, don't give them on wishful thinking. Steroids can be very beneficial when used appropriately. But they can do harm when they are used irresponsibly.

Wait until you have a vet or a specialist who knows about these things and devise a plan for when you will use them, at what dose, for how long, and what the tapering off period should look like.
 

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I am so sorry you are going through this. I just wanted you to know that. I agree with what many are saying as far as not putting Charlie through any invasive procedures. Try to think of this way- if you were feeling sick with this, what would you want someone doing to you? Based upon what I have read, I think you will make the best decisions for Charlie.

I recently lost my sweet boy, Oliver, a month ago today to a stomach mass/suspected lymphoma. I will tell you that the weight loss is fast. He went from 10 lbs in May to 8 lbs in August and I believe it is because cancer eats nutrients. So he could have ate everything in front of him and may still have lost weight. In addition, in regards to the sniffing of foods and going from food to food, I think it was because he associated each food with how he felt. If he didn't have an upset stomach on a new food he would eat it, until that too made him feel bad. It would keep continuing. It was obvious he wanted to eat by his effort to come check out the foods, and he would feel better for a bit when he did eat. So much so that just a few days before we put him so sleep, the vet called to check on him and I said "he's doing so much better". Then the next day he didn't.

Oliver went downhill within weeks. He was rolling around playing in July and then in August, started just wanting to lay around. Even then though, he would use the litterbox, drink water, and come to us. But when the vet showed me the x-ray, I knew. I am thankful though that he didn't suffer for years or even months. It doesn't make it any easier, but with my cat, Snuggles, I did put her through too much.

Let your heart and your love guide you. There are people on here with a lot more experience with lymphoma, and even treating it, so hoping that they can give you a lot of good advice. But know that my thoughts and prayers are with you and Charlie. ❤❤
 
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miguel99nyc

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I am so sorry you are going through this. I just wanted you to know that. I agree with what many are saying as far as not putting Charlie through any invasive procedures. Try to think of this way- if you were feeling sick with this, what would you want someone doing to you? Based upon what I have read, I think you will make the best decisions for Charlie.

I recently lost my sweet boy, Oliver, a month ago today to a stomach mass/suspected lymphoma. I will tell you that the weight loss is fast. He went from 10 lbs in May to 8 lbs in August and I believe it is because cancer eats nutrients. So he could have ate everything in front of him and may still have lost weight. In addition, in regards to the sniffing of foods and going from food to food, I think it was because he associated each food with how he felt. If he didn't have an upset stomach on a new food he would eat it, until that too made him feel bad. It would keep continuing. It was obvious he wanted to eat by his effort to come check out the foods, and he would feel better for a bit when he did eat. So much so that just a few days before we put him so sleep, the vet called to check on him and I said "he's doing so much better". Then the next day he didn't.

Oliver went downhill within weeks. He was rolling around playing in July and then in August, started just wanting to lay around. Even then though, he would use the litterbox, drink water, and come to us. But when the vet showed me the x-ray, I knew. I am thankful though that he didn't suffer for years or even months. It doesn't make it any easier, but with my cat, Snuggles, I did put her through too much.

Let your heart and your love guide you. There are people on here with a lot more experience with lymphoma, and even treating it, so hoping that they can give you a lot of good advice. But know that my thoughts and prayers are with you and Charlie. ❤❤
Thank you so much for that.

May I ask how long did he have that diagnosed and survived? I feel like my Charlie lost alot of weight too being from 10lbs roughly to 7.8lbs now but i think he's maintaining? He did his normal amount for today already and now is resting. And I was thinking that too, maybe the other food he now stays away because he associates it with pain or discomfort. And now Im afraid this food he will not eat eventually because it will affect him.

Did your cat undergo any medication? I wish I can just solely give my cat medication to prolong his life but if it truly is cancer I fear none of it will matter honestly. Im definitely not going to go with biopsy given how certain his diagnosis seams in the sense that confrimed my worst fears of it being terminal. I only had wished it was IBD...but then again it wouldnt have caused him to lose so much weight that fast. Would make sense that Cancer would eat up his nutrients so it would not matter how much he ate :( . But then it's so confusing because he definitely acted more normal these past days as opposed to last week where he just hid under table and barely ate much. Now seems like his normal self except still looking thinner. Just gets me so sad knowing really all this eating he does now really won't do much - and that it's just making him probably feel happy for that moment. But if its indeed that lymphoma or some type of cancer, it won't be long before he will have to be put down :(
 
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miguel99nyc

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And yes, if anyone has any related stories/suggestions as well regarding this situation, I would truly appreciate it greatly.
 

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Thank you so much for that.

May I ask how long did he have that diagnosed and survived? I feel like my Charlie lost alot of weight too being from 10lbs roughly to 7.8lbs now but i think he's maintaining? He did his normal amount for today already and now is resting. And I was thinking that too, maybe the other food he now stays away because he associates it with pain or discomfort. And now Im afraid this food he will not eat eventually because it will affect him.

Did your cat undergo any medication? I wish I can just solely give my cat medication to prolong his life but if it truly is cancer I fear none of it will matter honestly. Im definitely not going to go with biopsy given how certain his diagnosis seams in the sense that confrimed my worst fears of it being terminal. I only had wished it was IBD...but then again it wouldnt have caused him to lose so much weight that fast. Would make sense that Cancer would eat up his nutrients so it would not matter how much he ate :( . But then it's so confusing because he definitely acted more normal these past days as opposed to last week where he just hid under table and barely ate much. Now seems like his normal self except still looking thinner. Just gets me so sad knowing really all this eating he does now really won't do much - and that it's just making him probably feel happy for that moment. But if its indeed that lymphoma or some type of cancer, it won't be long before he will have to be put down :(
We initially thought Oliver had an infection and for a brief period, it looked that way. He perked up quite a bit after getting the antibiotic shot (along with fluids and Cerenia, which he had a couple of times). But I never had the chance to see if the prednisolone would have done anything. He had thrown up some blood, so she took x-rays and there was the stomach mass. She let me take him home (gave him more fluids, etc.) but I called back after speaking with my son and we put him to sleep that afternoon. It tore me to pieces. He was still so full of life and everything else on him was good. He would still come to get his butt patted (he loved that) and would purr. He even went out on our porch and tried to catch a lizard the day we put him to sleep. But then he would just come in and lay down and you could see it in his eyes. And he was restless, like he just couldn't get comfortable. He even let me rub his tummy. He never used to allow that.

It literally was a matter of weeks from the time he started to *show* he was feeling off, until he was put to sleep. There were signs I should have picked up on, like the weight loss. But then you think, he's getting older. Or when he would have hairballs. Apparently, that isn't considered normal either. You keep telling yourself as long as they are happy, playing, and eating, all is well. As they say though, cats are notorious for hiding their illnesses/pain.

Now, with Snuggles, I took her in back in August of 2017 because she was yelping when she tried to eat. They told me she had stomatitis (was allergic to her own teeth), gave her a steroid shot, and scheduled surgery to remove her teeth. That first shot did her wonders. She ate like a little pig. But the yelping returned and remained even after her teeth were removed. All of us were stumped. We tried additional shots. The vet even gave me liquid prednisolone for her for the last few months. But she hated the meds and started hiding from me. I always regretted that. Her appetite went up and down with the steroids. It wasn't until 6 months later that the vet finally felt a mass in her mouth. If I had requested x-rays (which I should have done), we may have seen something sooner.

So like daftcat75 daftcat75 said, either decision is equally tough. My first cat, Anastasia, she died on the way of me taking her back to the vet. I never knew what she had going on- she just stopped eating as well. Snuggles- I kept thinking I could get her through it (I even spoon fed her for months), so I tried everything. And most recently Oliver, who I had promised that I would not keep extending his suffering just to avoid my own.

All that being said, it has to be your decision. What may be right for one cat, may not be for the next. It is never easy. Never. You are doing the right thing though by asking questions and listening to everyone's experiences. And by listening to Charlie. Sometimes they guide us more than we realize. Please keep us updated. ❤❤
 

daftcat75

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I don’t normally suggest alternative treatments because there is an opportunity cost with using them. People tend to be stubborn about alternative treatments—that they believe they are seeing the result they want to see or they are almost there. All the while, that’s time that could have been spent on more proven effective treatments.

However, since pred and chemo may not make a difference here, you don’t have much to lose trying something else.

https://vitalityscience.com/cat-cancer-support/

Please call or email them. They have a quick turnaround on replies (usually within 24 hours) and are very knowledgeable. They can assist you with product selection.

Something you may also want to try is CBD oil. This is something they can help you with or you can buy it elsewhere.

I don’t expect any of this to cure him. But hopefully they’ll give him many more good days to come.
 
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