My almost 2 month kitten keeps bothering the adult cats in the litter boxes.

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Joe_Danger1337

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So I added a new litterbox in my computer room today, this was the only place I could put it
The original idea was for the litterbox to be where the plastic container/tub with the purple lid is but since there's tile sthere and the floor is uneven it was way too wobbly for comfort.
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This by no means solves the problem, since Spaska can get to this spot in an instant as she has many times today.
However this did prove to me that Mila has indeed been holding it in all these days
So yeah, now I know that Mila has been holding it in on purpose which is a lot more worrisome.
After adding the new litter tray today, she peed a total of 3 times, once in one of the old trays and twice in the new one.
And pooped once in the new one.

Problem is, Spaska almost got to her as SOON as she approached the new tray, this tells me that Spaska unintentionally does block Mila from using the other litterboxes and Mila has indeed been holding it in. The addition of the new one is only going to help as long as Spaska doesn't approach Mila when she is doing her business in the new tray, otherwise we're going to be at square one. Unfortunately it is physically impossible to prevent this form happening, even when the door is closed all four cats easily open it, keys we don't have and even if we replaced the locks, if Mila were to be confined to this room under lock and key she'd freak out, same with Spaska.

One thing is for sure, Mila was avoiding using the old litter boxes because Spaska spooked her one too many times and it's only a matter of time before the same happens in the new litterbox, earlier the cats were all chasing each other and before I could see where each one was Mila and Spaska found themselves in front of the new litterbox chasing one another around my computer chair and out of the room.

So yeah, while they're all happily playing together, the litter box fear Mila got from Spaska is a problem.
 

Kflowers

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Okay, I've got a desperate measure you might try. From looking at the door beside the litter box (if that is the door) can you hold it closed by leaning one hip against it? Not for a long time, just long enough for Mila to realize it's closed and you got it. The idea being that at certain times every day, always the same times, you bring Mila into the study, put her in the litter box and close the door and hold it shut. Once she gets the idea she will probably (possibly) pee right then. Three times a day isn't that often. You'd be scheduling when it was safe to pee once in the morning and once at night. It won't be easy, but it might just be possible. Certainly a lot easier than grabbing Spaska and taking her to another room and holding her while Mila is peeing. I also don't think this would feel as safe to Mila. I could be wrong.

You might get a rubber door stopper to jam the door with, but I'm not sure the door is high enough for that.

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Amazon.com : Classic Rubber Door Stopper Wedge – Sturdy and Stackable Door Stop, Multi Floor Doorstop Ensures Tight Fit for Gaps up to 1.2 Inches (4 Pack, Brown) : Office Products
 
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Joe_Danger1337

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Thanks, those stoppers look cool tho I already keep the door shut when the cats aren't freaking out because it's shut lol
I already tried scheduling Mila, I forgot to mention that, initially she'd pee whenever I'd put her in the litterboxes but I think she grew annoyed by it and she'd just leave most of the time and pee on her own time.
I don't think she likes being put in a litterbox if she doesn't feel like going

Here's Spaska and Mila this morning, pretty much every morning around 5:30-6AM they have some kind of friendly interaction, Spaska licked Mila's head for a few seconds, Mila was chill about it, then they sniffed each other, looked at one another and Spaska bolted off to play while Mila kept lying there.
Further proof that Mila has absolutely no issues whatsoever with little Spaska and only got conditioned to hold it in because Spaska cut her off three times that day.
I really hope we can get over this so they can all live happily together.

Right now me and Mila are in my computer room and I did put Mila in the new litterbox but she didn't care to go
She is chilling on her favorite spot on those plastic containers right above it. The door is closed which I hate and if Mila sees/notices she is going to start clawing at it :) but it's fine. It would be nice if she went and peed but we'll see. She went at like 11:20PM last night and it's 6AM now, she usually goes every 8 hours or so.

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Joe_Danger1337

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yup, as predicted, as soon as Mila noticed the door is shut she quickly and masterfully opened it :)
She does the same if Spaska is in the room and she hears her crying while Mila is outside
 

Kflowers

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They are so adorable together. And, yes, I've found a cat wants what she wants, when, and how, she wants it. Much like a person. There is some hope that Spaska will out grow this phase, if for no other reason as she gets older Mila will hit her harder and she'll figure out Mila doesn't consider it a game. Or Mila decides she doesn't care if Spaska shares the box with her.

I think Mila loves Spaska very much.

Best of luck. Be warned, if I think of anything more I'll let you know.

Edited because I did have another thought, you were warned. This one will be difficult because you have small spaces. get a large, I mean a fourth to half again longer box (underbed storage boxes are good for this, they are heavy plastic and make good litter boxes, Sweet Gum is using the same one she got 9 years ago and it's in good shape.) This will give them room to be in the box at the same time. With enough room, it may turn out that Spaska just wants to pee at the same time Mila does. Toddlers are like that.
 
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Joe_Danger1337

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Thanks
Mila doesn't like having other cats around when she pees or does number #2, she has hissed at her own kittens before when they follow her.
The other day Kala followed her by accident to the bathroom, Mila hissed at her, Kala lowered her head and walked away and they're VERY close. It was a gentle, quiet hiss but firm like "honey leave mommy alone". So Mila went in, pooped, buried her poop and everything was fine.

Spaska...doesn't get this message lol
Mila has swiped at her before for getting too close, but she never sniffed her butt, that's when this whole mess started.
 
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Joe_Danger1337

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A LOT happened since my last post and I feel it would be nice to share what happened in case people search for help and come across this topic.

1. I took Mila to the vet a few days ago because even in the new litterbox she has been delaying her bathroom outings and as soon as I heard her meow in pain near the litterbox and her boy, Casper, the big white one came to get me from the other room it was clear to me that this is more than just the kitten's fault.

2. Mila has bladder stones, the vet recommended URINO CAT and said it should help a great deal
She was using the litterbox normally after that, however today she has been delaying again even tho this morning she went at 4AM no problems whatsoever. We're undergoing another heatwave tho and even tho the AC is working I bet the cats can sense the heatwave because the other cats haven't been going to the bathroom much at all either. Even Spaska, the kitten is much calmer today.

3. Mila's blood cell count has been severely lowered since her last check up, it's not FIP or FIV, the vet tested for everything. It's most likely a nasty side effect of the heatstroke she suffered on June 29th and strep throat infection she was fighting, plus the stress with the bladder stones. The vet prescribed pills for that too and said he believes her condition will improve.
Mila's appetite is excellent for both dry and wet food, tho Spaska bothers her when she eats too now, even if they have to have two food bowls and they have multiple Spaska HAS to eat from the same one Mila does...so yeah.

4. I absolutely must watch and make sure Spaska doesn't bother Mila in the litterbox because she still does it to everyone and Mila still hates it, but it's not always possible to ensure Spaska doesn't get to Mila on time.

Overall it's not an ideal situation, far from it but at least we know the main cause for Mila's behavior around the litterboxes now and it's more to do with her bladder stones than Spaska.

On a side note Spaska and Casper get along beautifully
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Kflowers

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That is a lot of stuff. I'm so glad you noticed, or that Casper told you. Bladder stones are a... well, you know. Reading this, I did have another thought, since you're watching Mila to try to keep Spaska away during box visits, up the game. Grab Spaska as she starts after Mila and put her in her carrier until Mila has finished. Very small time out. Cats can learn if you insist, if they really have to. Cats don't like going in the carrier even if it's the one they sleep in unless it's their idea.

good luck and pets to Mila
 
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Joe_Danger1337

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I just take her to a different room
the carriers are a bit out of the way and by the time I open one and get Spaska in it would make so much noise it would distract Mila.
My cats really love their carriers, the persians at least and have never had issues being put in them, the reason I closed them was because that's where Mila got a heatstroke June 29th
She slept in the carrier, as she often did and it seems it got too hot in there and yeah things did not end well.

I wouldn't want Spaska to develop negative associations with the carriers either, but they had to be closed for the rest of the summer.
 

Kflowers

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SG loves her carrier, but only when she chooses to go in herself, never when she's put inside.

How scary to have her overheat in her carrier.

I hadn't thought about it getting too hot inside the carrier in the house, but when you said that I realized your house isn't made for really hot weather. When you take them to the vet in the really hot weather, you might want to point the a/c vent at them. I also put a small brick of ice in a baggie in the carrier. Drives the vet crazy but so far no one's gotten over heated in the car. Some car companies do not understand a/c
 
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Joe_Danger1337

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Yeah taking cats places in hot weather without adequate cooling is not a good idea, especially persians. even with their fur trimmed they still don't do well in hot weather.
The AC was broken back in June and by the time services freed up to fix it, Mila got a heatstroke.
Casper was going to get one too but we prevented that on time.

As soon as the weather cooled off outside tonight, even tho the inside of the condo/apartment has been cool, all 4 cats started playing together and Mila went and did her business without issues, tho I had to catch Spaska before she went and bothered her.
After that I failed to stop Spaska from bothering Kala and even tho for Kala it's a nonissue, following her to the litterbox like that only serves to enable Spaska's bad habit. So I'm not sure how or if we're ever going to break that habit at this point.

I honestly see a lot more problems in the future unless Spaska's habit of not sitting next to the adult cats when they go to the bathroom goes away. If it happens to Mila in the new litterbox and it's only a matter of time, I dunno how Mila is going to handle it. As happy as I am to see tem all playing together and being nice to one another, I'm also very worried about Spaska's terrible habit because I know it won't stop bothering Mila even if the other cats don't care.

Mila isn't supposed to be running around and playing, due to her low WBC thing, but good luck explaining that to her when the rest of the gang is happily playing together.
 

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At least playing means she feels better. The really great thing about kittens they grow up and get some sense. I could be wrong but I suspect that once she's grown the following Mila every where will stop or slow up. She's still at the toddler learning stage. Toddlers come in Velcro and stay away!, but not too far. If nothing else you can hope.

In answer to your question at about 10 months, or when she's as big as Mila.
 
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Joe_Danger1337

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Yeah, that's why I'm so patient and make sure to keep Spaska away from Mila when she uses the littterbox as much as I'm able.
Everything else is perfect and I'm so happy there are no confects between any of them fror now
 
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Joe_Danger1337

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While the relationship between all 4 cats is great, Spaska isn't Mila's favorite person but she isn't bothered by her as long as Spaska isn't being annoying, I am still unable to break Spaska's habit of following the cats to the litterboxes.

Kala isn't bothered by this one bit, last night she went to poop with Spaska in toe, they buried Kala's poop together, got out of there, no issues whatsoever. Casper is much the same.
But Mila hates this and with Spaska being much bigger, stronger and faster it's not easy to keep her from getting to Mila when she is in the litterbox nowadays.

If only we could sort this one thing out all 4 would be living
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There's Mila on my beloved Commodore 64 just watching Spaska monkeying around :)
As long as Spaska isn't bothering her specifically she doesn't mind being around her one bit.

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Spaska and Casper's relationship is absolutely wonderful, tho she does annoy him too, but he just doesn't seem to know how to kiss at her or swipe at her

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Spaska and Kala, sleeping close to one another peacefully

Also have YOU seen a kitten that plays with the litterbox? Literally playing WITH the entire thing?
This litterbox has been here for years in the same position, nobody has ever moved it
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And now we have Spaska doing THIS with the litterbox, she pushes it around, pulls it, to her it's a toy, she pounces at it, attacks it, drops toys in it and tries to get them out....
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I want my cats to be happy and healthy and live together for many years in peace and quiet together with Spaska. If only she'd stop bothering them at the litterboxes :)
 

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Are you sure Spaska isn't a puppy in a cat suit?

I know you don't have any room, but maybe a litter box with actual sand in it, tucked under the bed to make it tricker to play with. This would be a kitten sandbox, not litter box, like children have sandboxes. Note this is about as far out an idea as I've ever gotten.
 
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Joe_Danger1337

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Almost 4 months now, Spaska is going to be 4 months on the 1st and there's almost no change in her bothering the other cats in the litterboxes
I manage but it's not easy. She does keep her distance from Kala, like she watches but from afar which is great, but Casper and Mila she has to sit right by the litterbox and even gets up in their butts which bothers them, Casper not so much most of the time he is fine but Mila still hates it.

I've tried everything but it seems this habit can't be broken, at least not any time soon
Hope my cats don't mess up and stop using the litterboxes, the've already developed a habit of not digging/burying in the litterbox much because that's what triggers Spaska, she thinks they're playing it's nothing sinister but it is annoying.

I'm at a point where I conditioned Mila to go whenever I place her near a litterbox, I know this is bad but it was the only solution I could think of so she goes in peace, so I first put Spaska in another room then "suggest" to Mila to go do her business by simply placing her near the litterbox but not flat out in or in front of it, this works 100% of the time if she needs to go so I put her once in the morning and once at around 11-12PM and it's all good.
If she needs to go on her own in the meantime she does so but she usually doesn't.

Kala can handle Spaska on her own

Casper can handle her most of the time but sometimes she cuts him off so there's that to keep an eye on too

Other than that everyone gets along well
 

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good to hear from you guys. sending hope and patience to Mila. She really is a sweet cat with a very good nature. AND a quick learner.
 
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Joe_Danger1337

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I think they tolerate this because Spaska is still a kitten
but come 6 months I doubt she'd change much in terms of behavior and personality but she is going to mature sexually which is going to be an issue for the persians if she keeps harassing them.
I wanted to get her spayed at 4 months but most vets in my country refuse to spay before the first heat cycle
So there's that to worry about as well.

I don't think there's a way to teach Spaska not to run up to the adult cats when they bury or dig in their litterboxes, even if she is fast asleep she runs up to them in a split second.
I'm experienced enough with cats to know this could lead to major issues down the line so I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried.
 

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I know you are. White vinegar is your friend.

Mila may not do it, but I have noticed the indulge the kitten stuff stops when the kitten gets pregnant or turns one year. last one, the indulgences stopped to the week the kitten turned one. But I can certainly see it happening at 6 months. I'm still expecting Mila to flip around and smack Spaska right out of the litter box. But then I never had peaceable Persians, I had trained in the streets cats.

Did I say your guys are adorable lately? Yes, they are.
 
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Joe_Danger1337

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Mila did smack Spaska once when she was bothering her but Spaska took that as a sign of play...because it's Spaska.

Spaska and Mila
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Spaska and Kala - took this pic yesterday
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There's Spaska yesterday morning trying to destroy my Limited Run games that arrived in the mail yesterday morning I think :)
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The other week Spaska being all peaceful chilling with Kala and Mila before she started biting everyone XD
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She is gorgeous, like she has that proud cat look about her when she isn't acting crazy
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