My 19 year old Tortie has been super healthy all her life but just had blood work and I guess is now dying.

35 year catdad

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I just got some numbers on blood work:
BUN is 127- normal limit 37
phosph. way too high
low red blood cells high white cells-will continue the amoxicillin
NORMAL thyroid yeah
creatinine 5.3 normal limit is 2.3
shes hiding a lot so thats not good

This March before we moved she RAN up stairs (about 10 of them with this maniac Calico avatar chasing her) and 2 months ago in new place was running down the hall. YEAH I thought...she'll make age 22 and she promised me 25. Not in writing though....

Then 3 weeks ago struggling to pee first time ever a health problem and it resolved next day. Getting skinny like they do, and went to emerg. vet Monday 19th October for a visit, after another episode of in/out of litter box and little urine output (no blood) . Put on amoxicillin and given pain med and three days later, yesterday went to our new vet for blood work.
Vet said she looks great, and we will let you know about blood work (extensive "health check plus" test for $214. with results today Friday 23. He saw no need for urine test.
Its not good....multiple issues so looks like she won't make age 20. I'm giving her round the clock care cause I'm not working. Shes now eating about 2/3 normal amounts of the best wet food and some kibble , and hiding like sick cats do. Her loving boyfriend Martin age 15 has a built-in replacement my 3 yr old rescued Calico so at least he wont be a depressed widower boy. I showed new vet all the food empty bags of what shes been eating past 5 years (mostly Wysong special diets ) and vet said well, you are certainly feeding her well! Shes on 90% wet food in past 3 years - Wysong dry Geriiatrix, and past month Wysong U.T. diet . Their U.T. diet kibble is about $11 for 5 lbs at Chewy. I wont give up till I think shes not having enough quality of life then will let her go.
I can't be selfish and let her suffer. All urine and blood work normal at vet about 18 months ago. I know thats too long but we just moved and selling the house/moving was a nightmare (white carpets and 3 cats and me living in house during hundreds of showings) and I am low income senior who had to do a hard money loan to survive, so ... as active and healthy as she was I assumed all is well. Shes ONE TUFF TORTIE so watch us perform a miracle! She was one day from destruction in a high kill shelter in Sept. 2001 just before 911. soooo I gave her about 6,935 more days of a very happy life indeed... off to get copy of blood work.....
off to search best low protein diets. The vet mentioned they had one and I went into my RANT about Hills and Unroyal Canin
breaking news just gave her gosh mabe 200mg? ascorbic acid in water with antibiotic also mixed in cause we got nuttn to lose....It saves humans in septic shock so watch it work on my luv bug! will watch urine ph with my test strips and go to sodium ascorbate if too acidic.
 

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felinelover2

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I am so sorry but also happy knowing both of you have had these amazing years together. I have a newly adopted Tortie and really feel for you - their 'tortitide' really finds a place in your heart. Prayers for both of you for a peaceful road ahead to the next chapter.
 

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35 year catdad

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I am so sorry but also happy knowing both of you have had these amazing years together. I have a newly adopted Tortie and really feel for you - their 'tortitide' really finds a place in your heart. Prayers for both of you for a peaceful road ahead to the next chapter.
thank you! I love this website club!
 
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35 year catdad

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Hi!
Don't go too low on the protein, you don't want her losing any more muscle mass.
Be sure and tell your vet that you're using the ascorbic acid.

You might find these useful;
https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

How To Get A Cat To Gain Weight – TheCatSite Articles

Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Everything You Need to Know to Help Your Cat
THANKS!!!! crazy week just broke a molar and a friend wanted emerg ride to hospital for heart failure same day I was at emerg vet. All self induced.... I've been giving too much protein past week so I bet BUN will fall quickly with lower protein. Goats never get sick - and when they do die usually... and believe it or not can make 20,000 to 50,000 mg a day ascorbic acid under stress. See Dr Suzanne Humphries video (nephrologist on U tube) whats our RDA?75-90 mg what a joke.
Us humans make none. We lack one of 4 enzymes needed to do that in our livers. IV C given to sepsis patients is usually 50,000 to 100,000 mg buffered C with Thiamine and a corticosteroid.
 
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Furballsmom

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35 year catdad

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I'm not particularly holistic, but I'm reading that cats do make their own vitamin C but sometimes not enough to deal with stress. Ascorbic acid might cause tummy upset but sodium ascorbate doesn't seem to.

In any case, here's another source of information about food;
https://cvm.ncsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Cats-Chronic-Kidney-Disease-v2-1.pdf
THANKS!!!! My cousin is 75 and was at 7% kidney function and getting her affairs in order and convinced she would be dead soon.
THIS WAS 4 YRS ago and her kidney function now? 26 and rising. She found the right nephrologist ( I think hes a holistic MD) and promised her he does this all the time. She will not do dialysis but follows a super strict diet and its working!
Vitamin C is for oxidative stress and toxics in the blood are.... oxidative stress (as well as 6 hrs in parking lot at emergency vet)
and 3 days later another vet visit...
I am extremely holistic.
Her urine is nice and clear and she has good breath, and eating well but small amounts every hour or so. We might just turn a corner here soon! She has always had an iron stomach and still does:) me too! my last vomiting? age 15 -im 68 now. I know hard to believe but my Moms side is same way. Thanks Mom I hate puking...came close a few times. Gotta get our BUN way down from 127
 
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35 year catdad

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Here she is 3 hrs after the vitamin C -she hasnt been up on this for gosh 2 weeks. Left tonight for an hour and a half and shes waiting by the front door for dinner! So after dinner ....I put more of the C solution on both front legs for her to lick off. If we made same amount in our livers as cats do per kilogram we'd be at around 2750 mgs for 150 lb person. Its no longer acidic after donating its electrons I read. Shes been under the rolltop desk on her KH heating pad 90% of the time lately. She has low body temp but normal heart rate. She jumps up from a higher box on left side and down onto this foot rest.
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35 year catdad

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Saturday night after about 400mg C with her antibiotic twice in past 24 hrs and she just jumped up in my chair to check out the latest posts and see Whisky!
SHES adorable Too! I think I've become a Tortie guy...and Calico, and Main Coon.
C fights oxidative stress and imagine all the oxidants, and free radicles (2 months of terrible smoke) in a cats body with kidneys not filtering poision out.
I'm going to see if ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate is used by others in cats in dire straights.
I'm squirting it into the sides of her mouth slowly.

Furballs Mom....can we come and live there? Near Estes Park? I was there and fell in love with it at age 15 I want out of Calismokia Power may be going off again here Sunday 25th October AGAIN! and I think the soup for air we have been breathing is part of the problem. The vets here near Santa Rosa Ca are SWAMPED. I think the burning cars, houses, plastics, rubber, on and on has made it into our systems. Vets say they would not be surprised. I filter our indoor air but still some toxics must get in.
 

white shadow

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35 year catdad 35 year catdad -PLEASE, for the love of all that's good and holy, stop this experimentation immediately.

You will most certainly poison your little cat - if you haven't already.

Cats cannot tolerate this the way some humans can. You run the very real risk of acidifying the cats 'whole system'.

PLEASE, call a Veterinarian immediately and advise them what you've been doing - call the ER.

This little cat has all the trust in the world in/with you - please don't go any further with what you've been doing.
.
.
 
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white shadow

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This is a piece from Tuft's University that speaks specifically to Vitamin C.......

Many people tout the benefits of vitamin C (also called ascorbic acid) as an active antioxidant. This is true. Sometimes. The motto “the dose makes the poison” is appropriate here. Antioxidants are meant to do what the name says: they combat oxidation in cells (another way to put it is that they prevent or delay some types of cell damage). While vitamin C does do this in smaller doses, in larger doses, it can be pro-oxidant, meaning it promotes the oxidation of cells and thus cell damage. Many pet owners reach for vitamin C, thinking it will help stave off cancer or prevent bladder stones or other diseases. Unfortunately, no studies have shown this to be the case in cats and dogs and sometimes can make things worse.......​
Calcium oxalate stones can form in the bladder or kidney of dogs and cats. What does that have to do with vitamins? Like we mentioned above, cats and dogs don’t require vitamin C in the diet. Even more importantly, if it is supplemented above and beyond what their own bodies are making, we may be providing an excess of vitamin C. What happens to this excess? It gets metabolized and excreted from the body through the urine in the form of oxalate. Too much of this oxalate in the urine and your cat or dog may have an increased risk for calcium oxalate stones that can form anywhere in the urinary tract from kidneys to bladder. All the more reason to be cautious and talk with your veterinarian before giving supplements, which leads us to the last letter…​
Don’t always assume that just because something is ‘natural,’ it will always have a benefit!​
In the case of vitamin C, cats and dogs don’t have a dietary requirement and too much can not only have the opposite effect of your goal, but could come with some painful and unexpected side effects. Tell your veterinarian everything you are giving your pet and ask them before starting any new medication or supplement.
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Don't wait around/hesitate - call your Vet now and tell them exactly what you've done - the amounts, the frequency - and ask what you should do.

I really fear for this little cat.
.

.
 
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Furballsmom

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At the moment, we're almost as bad off as you are regarding smoke from wildfires but we're keeping out fingers crossed that the snow this weekend is enough quantity to put them out.
 

white shadow

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So, 35 year catdad 35 year catdad - were you able to speak with your Vet ?

Have you stopped the Vitamin C ?

Was her urine tested at the ER clinic? I'm trying to understand why the "new vet" "saw no need for a urine test".

Did the new vet say anything about giving her fluids ?

What do you understand about phosphorus? You did say that hers was way too high.....do you know how to control it?....was anything said about that?

You also said 'we have nothing to lose'.........are you saying the new vet was not encouraging or suggesting any treatment? (or, do you believe it's beyond your ability to do?)

About the "low protein foods".......that idea is very rooted in older veterinary medicine's treatment of kidney disease. These days, "not so much". You've said that she's "gettting skinny like they do" - but, do you know that they don't have to? Older cats who lose weight are cats with conditions that are going untreated, or who are getting inadequate nutrition. The weight loss isn't inevitable - that is (what used to be called) an "old wives' tale", these days an "urban myth". Personally, I would not be feeding any low protein nutrition (nor do I here with two geriatric puds!).

There are a few folks here who know their way around managing kidney kitties, who know what they're talking about. There are also Internet groups that exclusively deal with this 'stuff'.

Personally, I wouldn't be throwing any towels in - at least just yet. I have a gut feeling that a lot, if not all, of what you've been seeing with her (at least lately) is related to the urinary infection (which is why that missing urine test is bugging me).

So, what do you say?
.
 

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It sounds like you have had quite a tough time between a move, juggling health issues for tooth, friend and kitty as well as that awful smoke. I’m so sorry. How is everything going now? Better, I hope. I have read about vitamin c theories with cats and cancer. If she did not produce enough herself, can she be tested to determine that? The studies I saw were actually done on cats to provide help for humans with cancer. I don’t know if any further studies were done to provide more documentation on cats. I’ll be interested to read that link above to Tufts University. I do know that the acidity can be an issue. I currently have a cat with cancer and I know how hard it can be to have our loved ones become ill. My girl was best friends with my daughter before she passed. I have been reading up on her health issues. I know I can only do so much for her but staying hopeful. We have new xrays scheduled. I am grateful that we have a vet we have known and trusted for a very long time. The vet now gives me senior discounts. Maybe yours would too. Just wondering if things are better there. Hoping for many more good times for her. She is a beautiful Tortie.
 
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35 year catdad

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Shes doing amazing and I just discovered someone else who sells cat products I bought at Chewy had same exact experience "experimenting" with their cat doing some insane "tomfoolery" with a simple vitamin in high doses (much more than I used)
They turned a fast failing 18 yr old into a cat thats now 21.
I will send our lab work to our first vet who saw her a long time ago to see if he agrees she was hopeless.
creatinine, BUN, basophils off the charts.I wanted to see about another round of amoxixxilin but new vet said better not.
The Gabapentin (neurontin ) emerg vet gave us had her so high she jumped up in my chair and immed. fell off on her side.
Yes I used exact dosage.
I apologize for all my typos recently. I'm disabled....fat fingers rapidly tying on tiny tablet = what appears to be a drunk posting nonsense. Our air was so bad a while back the lights outside stayed on till about noon cause they thought it was dark. Even with constant ulpa air filter running with activated charcoal...this crazy cat was outside on the upper deck one day breathing air with burning tires, plastics, houses when I cane home..so...
I stopped leaving! All my cats in my life are indoor only.
Oxidative stress overwhelmed her old livers ability to detox with what little ascorbic acid she was making. (just my theory)
ask your vet.
Metabolic acidosis has not occurred. Next day results =blood draw was October 22 actually took 4 days. Lots of sick animals here
and vets overwhelmed gosh me too! SDMA is supposed to be a very good new test? vet could not get enough urine for test so so I will bring them a sterile sample soon. Its very clear and smells fine. No blood...just tiny bit twice in past month.
lately
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