Multicat household. Peeing and marking

JosieBear

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Sorry for the length of this but am desperate for help and the details seem important.

A friend found a very friendly pregnant cat, Jeanie, outside 4 years ago and I brought her home. She had two kittens (Henry, male and Betty, female) at my house kept them all and they’ve been a happy family with no major issues. Betty is anxious and can be withdrawn but has grown more open and attached to me recently. The other two are very close to me. 3 incidents of peeing over the years, all Jeanie.
1) first day she moved in, peed on the couch
2) my mother came to visit and was sleeping on the couch. Jeanie peed there after 3 days.
3) once when litter box was inaccessible. Also on the couch.

18 months ago my husband and I merged households, after a brief stay at his place. We then moved to a new house with my 3 and his 12 year old male cat, Arnold, and one 12 year old dog.

Took time for everyone to get settled. We could have handled it better. Henry and Arnold became buddies pretty quickly. Jeanie took longer to adapt but is fine now. Betty doesn’t really like Arnold really but is slowly warming up. He’s not good at reading her signals. Not menacing, just wants to be close and it annoys her so she will hiss and run him off occasionally. She can be territorial with him.

Had a few peeing incidents early on, all I believe were Betty. She’s prone to anxiety and there was constant noise and people in the house for months. She had cystitis and once that was resolved we have not had many issues. Occasional marking in spots where both she and her mother spend time.

In September we were away for a few days and had a cat sitter. No issues while we were away at all, but the next day someone marked or peed on their favorite chair. We think Betty and that she was upset because the housekeeper was here and vacuuming and she felt a bit trapped in that particular room with no box. Took her to the vet and she had mild cystitis. But has also grown obese. Her mom and brother are also heavy.

Over the past month we stopped free feeding dry food. They’ve all lost weight but Betty will wake me up crying every night !unless! I get out of our bed and feed her and/or go sleep with her in the guest room.

Also, should mention that we’ve recently seen a Fox in the backyard a few times and that our neighbor’s cat comes over into our yard. I smell cat pee sometimes out there. We are putting down natural, safe repellant to hopefully get both to keep away from the house.

Subsequently, we’ve begun having peeing and marking incidents almost daily. I think it’s actually Jeannie and tonight we had one that I’m pretty certain was her.

Our vet said wet food only but this just isn’t feasible. If we give them more than 1/3 can each someone gets sick and then they want to eat every 3-4 hours around the clock. In order to feed them the proper amount and only use wet food I would need to never sleep more than 4 hours at a time. And they are just hungry. I’m struggling to find the right combination of wet and dry food. Yesterday I gave up and bought a new healthy weight dry food which I’ve started mixing with their existing one (I think the existing one is responsible for the weight gain). I’m willing to feed them 4-5 times a day with wrt

If you’ve read this far, do you think the peeing is related to the change in feeding? Any suggestions for a sensible diet that doesn’t cost a gazillion dollars, works for all 4 cats and keeps them healthy? My vets recommendations are just not practical.
 

Anchoress

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Surely this is stress not diet? Cats are notoriously territorial and reading your post makes ME dizzy . Slow it all down. Feed twice a day at set times. Period. And stop changing food . Take control. Deep breath and slow down. Cats will pick up on your mood .
 
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JosieBear

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Thank you Anchoress.

What about Betty crying for food all the time though? She has kind of been running things here since we had the first incident.
 
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JosieBear

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I know you are right about me calming down.

Also I was thinking that it was stress from removing the dry food. But that the dry food we were feeding was the cause of the weight gain and the constant hunger. Thus returning to giving some dry food but merging to a better kind.
 

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I dunno but cats can and will take advantage. If you set a pattern of twice a day and stick t it she will adapt in time as long as she is eating what she needs. Just like people are cats. I never really had these issues as I just fed twice a day from the start
 

Zara12345

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Sorry for the length of this but am desperate for help and the details seem important.

A friend found a very friendly pregnant cat, Jeanie, outside 4 years ago and I brought her home. She had two kittens (Henry, male and Betty, female) at my house kept them all and they’ve been a happy family with no major issues. Betty is anxious and can be withdrawn but has grown more open and attached to me recently. The other two are very close to me. 3 incidents of peeing over the years, all Jeanie.
1) first day she moved in, peed on the couch
2) my mother came to visit and was sleeping on the couch. Jeanie peed there after 3 days.
3) once when litter box was inaccessible. Also on the couch.

18 months ago my husband and I merged households, after a brief stay at his place. We then moved to a new house with my 3 and his 12 year old male cat, Arnold, and one 12 year old dog.

Took time for everyone to get settled. We could have handled it better. Henry and Arnold became buddies pretty quickly. Jeanie took longer to adapt but is fine now. Betty doesn’t really like Arnold really but is slowly warming up. He’s not good at reading her signals. Not menacing, just wants to be close and it annoys her so she will hiss and run him off occasionally. She can be territorial with him.

Had a few peeing incidents early on, all I believe were Betty. She’s prone to anxiety and there was constant noise and people in the house for months. She had cystitis and once that was resolved we have not had many issues. Occasional marking in spots where both she and her mother spend time.

In September we were away for a few days and had a cat sitter. No issues while we were away at all, but the next day someone marked or peed on their favorite chair. We think Betty and that she was upset because the housekeeper was here and vacuuming and she felt a bit trapped in that particular room with no box. Took her to the vet and she had mild cystitis. But has also grown obese. Her mom and brother are also heavy.

Over the past month we stopped free feeding dry food. They’ve all lost weight but Betty will wake me up crying every night !unless! I get out of our bed and feed her and/or go sleep with her in the guest room.

Also, should mention that we’ve recently seen a Fox in the backyard a few times and that our neighbor’s cat comes over into our yard. I smell cat pee sometimes out there. We are putting down natural, safe repellant to hopefully get both to keep away from the house.

Subsequently, we’ve begun having peeing and marking incidents almost daily. I think it’s actually Jeannie and tonight we had one that I’m pretty certain was her.

Our vet said wet food only but this just isn’t feasible. If we give them more than 1/3 can each someone gets sick and then they want to eat every 3-4 hours around the clock. In order to feed them the proper amount and only use wet food I would need to never sleep more than 4 hours at a time. And they are just hungry. I’m struggling to find the right combination of wet and dry food. Yesterday I gave up and bought a new healthy weight dry food which I’ve started mixing with their existing one (I think the existing one is responsible for the weight gain). I’m willing to feed them 4-5 times a day with wrt

If you’ve read this far, do you think the peeing is related to the change in feeding? Any suggestions for a sensible diet that doesn’t cost a gazillion dollars, works for all 4 cats and keeps them healthy? My vets recommendations are just not practical.
I am not sure about all the peeing but maybe you could try introducing more litterboxes in your home? Coz if you watch Jackson Galaxy's channel he always recommends that you keep more litter boxes than the number of cats you have eg. If you have 2 cats keep 3 litter boxes. Also, are all your cats neutered/spayed?
Cats also pee when they smell something that they are not familiar with or in some cases it could be health related like a urinary tract infection but from what you've mentioned it seems to be more of a behavioural problem.
As for the feeding, I agree with the above poster. Maintain a feeding schedule. If your cat starts crying from outside the room you'll just have to ignore it. It seems like right now she knows that if she cries long enough you will eventually give her her food but resist the urge to do this. Eventually she will learn to adjust to her feeding time and the wailing will stop.
 
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JosieBear

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Everyone is spayed/neutered as kittens. (The mama cat after she gave birth). The mama cat lived on the streets for a while and fended for herself. I do think she’s peeing response to removal of dry food plus possibly the cat/Fox coming around outside.

We have 5 massive litter boxes. 4 spread out in the basement and one upstairs.

I’m sorry to be so disjointed and frantic. I’m an analyst so used to gathering tons of facts to sift through. But as you can tell I’m massively stressed and my brain is in overdrive. Covid + new house + newly cohabitating with husband + cat pee.
 

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Slow down! Or STOP... The cats will sense YOUR stress and we all know what stressed cats tend to do.. ie offload body weight eg pee. And stabilise the food? Too ,many changes. You are not doing anything wrong just doing far far too many needless things. Cats need time to get used to anything and here they are being blitzed with change after change. Amazed they have not all left home let alone peeing. !! Looking at my lot; fast asleep knowing when and what they will get fed …. and never a pee in the wrong place.. Slw right down. cuddle these cats and REST This is not work. This is LOVE
 

sunny578

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Hello! That is a lot of change, but it sounds like they handled the move and merge pretty well!

TLDR: I think your first step will be to make sure your home is a cat haven with 5 + litter boxes all around the house, scratching posts, cat trees, and lots of dog free spaces, and consider consulting a vet (maybe a naturopath?) who has lots of experience with nutrition to help iron out their diets.

In terms of the food, I had a lot of luck working with a naturopathic vet. My cat also has chronic cystitis, and my vet thought that the dry food irritated her bladder. We switched to 100% raw, and it has really helped. I know that might not be feasible for a multi cat household with larger cats, but I thought I'd share that experience in case it helps. My cats eat 3-14 times a day depending on whether we are home, so if you are available to feed frequent small meals, I don't think that's an issue. You could look into auto feeders to solve the night waking problem!

Now on to the urine. Can you tell me a little bit more about your home? You have 4 cats, so most would recommend 5 litter boxes, and you'll want them in various easy to access places around your home. I would make sure there is one on each level too.

Is your guess that Betty is the main urinator? If so, do you also witness her use the box?

Do your cats have at least some of their litter boxes in a room or space that the dog can't access?

Are your boxes hoodless? Ideally, they would be in places where the cats can go in there and see around them while they are doing their business. Also, you want the boxes to have multiple exits (IE not shoved in the corner or a closet.) Even if the cats are all getting along, some cats can feel stress about being ambushed by other animals (or kids) while using their box, and will just decide that they can use the floor/couch/bed instead.

Do your cats have lots of high up places/dog free spaces to retreat to? You want to make sure that they each feel comfortable and secure in their territory.

Have you experimented with pheromones, cat attract, different litters?

You also want to make sure there are other ways for your cats to mark their territory, and the biggest other way for them to do this is to scratch. So, lots of scratching posts, cat trees, chin scratchers--whatever they like.

I've dealt with something similar, so please feel free to reach out with questions etc!!
 
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sunny578

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Oops--just saw that you told us your litter box set up.

I might add one or two to the upstairs areas where Betty tends to go. What's the basement like? I'm thinking maybe Betty might have realized that it's just nicer and easier to urinate upstairs whens she really has to go.

Stress is part of life. I wouldn't worry too much about how your own stress affects your cats, but more about how you can make your home optimal for the cats so they don't feel stress from their territory. We are all stressed right now, and you've had a lot of change! And, cat urine outside of the box adds MAJOR stress for sure.

(edited bc I got Betty and Jeanie mixed up!)
 
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JosieBear

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Thanks so much sunny578 sunny578
I’ll reply tomorrow. Hoping for a decent night’s sleep tonight.
 
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JosieBear

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I slept all night, no urine incidents and no one woke me up! I did need to calm down and take control and really appreciate the reminder.

sunny578 sunny578

Betty has peed out of the box when she had cystitis - a year ago and again this past month. She also sometimes marks her favorite spots when she’s stressed. I’d like to improve her relationship with Arnold, because I think she’s marking because she feels territorial with keeping him away from her space. He likes to just walk up to her and ignores her cues to leave her alone. She never marked before we moved in together.

I know Jeanie has peed as recently as 24 hours ago. She has done that before when things got moved around so I suspect she was unsettled by the lack of dry food.

Last 24 hours I did just calm down. Stopped checking on them and left them some dry food in the normal places plus where Jeannie peed the night before. They seem much happier today.

I do want to create more vertical space for them. The basement is a fantastic, massive and quiet place for them with everything they need in different rooms. I have a cat tree and scratchers there and want to do more. Particularly because it’s the perfect retreat for when we have things going on upstairs.

I do have questions about feeding them.The vets recommendations aren’t practical for budget, time or a four car household. What the cans say is just not even possible. These cats are 14lbs, 18lbs and 22lbs. All need to lose about 10% more of that but Henry and Betty are just naturally massive cats. They don’t need nearly as much as recommended on the packaging though.

They were eating purina one ideal weight high protein dry. Betty especially seemed constantly hungry for more and obsessed with it. She would ignore her wet food and go for that. Since posting this I went back to how things were before, wet food twice a day and dry food in moderation but left in their bowls for them to find it. I mixed in a Royal Canin appetite control, and everyone is happier. Bitsy has totally calmed down and eats a bit then goes on her merry way. So far no crying for more. Hoping for another full night of sleep, no peeing but that they will still lose weight slowly.
 

sunny578

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Ok, well that's good news!

The basement sounds great! If the urinating out of the box happens upstairs, you could consider adding those extra cat trees and scratchers up there, and the extra litter boxes.

There are things you could do to help Betty redefine her fav illegal places to urinate depending on where they are (put a litter box there, feed her there, make an extra effort to play with her there, place catnip there, treats, etc.)

Yeah, I feel like in general the recs on the back of the packaging are crazy high. I have a canned food here and for my 50lb dog and it says she is supposed to eat 10 cans a day or something like that. What?!?!! That would be insane.

It sounds like you are in a good place, but keep us posted!!
 
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JosieBear

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You have to wonder if they are just trying to sell food!

My vet really cares about my cats. But I also think she’s just not always practical with recommendations.
 
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JosieBear

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Definitely still having issues with marking. I’ve found 4 places just this morning.
1) Betty’s new favorite spot.
2) Spot where Henry laid yesterday.
3) Specific chair where no one hangs out.
4) maybe old make where Henry sometimes hangs out.


Everyone seems happy and calm almost all the time. I’m trying to stay calm, too.

I am going to buy more adding Feliway/thunderease diffusers for these specific areas. I also sprayed feliway this morning in these areas. I am cleaning with anti-icky poo as soon as a find any spots.
 
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JosieBear

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And and all advice appreciated. This is so stressful.
 

sunny578

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I know this is so hard with multiple cats! My guess would be that the inappropriate urination started as a stress response to all the changes and then just kind of became a habit. It is totally doable to change the habit, but can be a little harder in a multi-pet household.

It sounds like these all might be in the living room/main living space? Are there litter boxes in there? Cat trees?

If not, I would focus on adding at least 2 litter boxes to this space, and some more cat things, like cat trees, scratchers.

What is their path to the basement like? Do they only have one set of stairs that they can use to get down there?

I don't think you have told us about the dog. He is older, but still wondering about his personality and how he interacts with the cats.

Once you have cleaned the illegal urine spaces, I would also work on creating a new association with these spaces, particularly Betty's new favorite spot. You could put a food bowl there, give her some treats there, put a new cat scratcher there, cat nip, etc.

You could also temporarily put some things on the furniture to protect it while you are trying to solve this problem (old shower curtains, tarps)

Does anyone have any accidents in the basement?

One cat behavior book suggests setting up a camera so you can confirm who the culprit is.

Once you set up the new litter boxes and cat things in the main living area, there are other things you can try too! But I'm hoping this will solve your problem.

If you want to post pictures of your space, that could help us suggest different solutions too! When you are dealing with this problem, you really want all of the litter boxes to be so so easy to use, and safe feeling for all of the cats (ie not in the corner, no hoods. Cats should have multiple exits and good visibility while urinating in their box.)

I'll keep checking back--good luck!! I feel like you can solve this, but it can take time to change habits :-/
 
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