missy sudden behavior change: no longer eating breakfast, just hides

[Robyn5678]

Dry food is all she gets. She eats it but doesn't eat it very good. She still needs lots of coaxing, encouragement, and reminding that it is time to eat. She just eats it easier than wet food b/c with wet food she'd eat maybe a tea spoon at a meal and I could never get her to do leftovers.
Edit: maybe she eats both with equal difficulty, it's just dry food we waste far less (though we do waste about 1/3 of our bag b/c it gets too "stale" or whatever and she won't eat it)

Which dry food do you give her? Sorry if you mentioned it and I just don’t see it

Currently I have a male and female cat. My girl got constipation when I gave them urinary dry food. And then when I gave them digestive dry food, she ended up with a UTI need a mix of both to counteract each other haha

Will Missy eat pumpkin? I used tiki cat aloha packets with pumpkin when Natasha had constipation.

 

[louisstools]

Which dry food do you give her? Sorry if you mentioned it and I just don’t see it

Currently I have a male and female cat. My girl got constipation when I gave them urinary dry food. And then when I gave them digestive dry food, she ended up with a UTI need a mix of both to counteract each other haha

Will Missy eat pumpkin? I used tiki cat aloha packets with pumpkin when Natasha had constipation.

Purina ur st/OX prescription kibble.

She’s been on that for about 10 years because of UTI problems. If she eats anything else they come right back. She will not eat pumpkin. She basically won’t eat anything. I haven’t really found anything she likes. she will not look at any treat, and I’ve tried every single treat at Petsmart and Petco. Every now and then she might eat a little sliver of lunchmeat, but that’s rare and most of the time she might just lick it and that’s it.

 

[louisstools]

so I can tell the MiraLAX is working, but no change in appetite. There is no appetite and that’s with an inch of mirataz starting the day off.

it basically takes twice the amount of time to get half the amount of food into her now. it’s it’s a combination of she’s just eating half to 2/3 less than what she was at a given meal. As well as many more meal trips where she just won’t eat. I’ll describe it like a cat with UTI or constipation where they go to the litter box constantly but nothing happens. That’s her but with eating. and when she gets in those modes, she won’t drink.

as my mom described it, the cat never gets better. She only gets worse, but she’ll stabilize for a few weeks and then she’ll get worse again and then stabilize. But the key is she never improves or shows any sign of improvement.

i’m hoping another day or so of the MiraLAX will get her back to eat again but if it doesn’t, I don’t know what else to do. I have to get some relief from this. I can’t keep doing it. I’m already starting to see issues with her from giving her the wet food as a treat to sneak medicine under her and her not wanting her kibble. but the problem with the wet food as a primary food for her is it so calorically poor and she’ll only eat a half teaspoon at a time.

 

[lisahe]

so I can tell the MiraLAX is working, but no change in appetite. There is no appetite and that’s with an inch of mirataz starting the day off.

it basically takes twice the amount of time to get half the amount of food into her now. it’s it’s a combination of she’s just eating half to 2/3 less than what she was at a given meal. As well as many more meal trips where she just won’t eat. I’ll describe it like a cat with UTI or constipation where they go to the litter box constantly but nothing happens. That’s her but with eating. and when she gets in those modes, she won’t drink.

as my mom described it, the cat never gets better. She only gets worse, but she’ll stabilize for a few weeks and then she’ll get worse again and then stabilize. But the key is she never improves or shows any sign of improvement.

i’m hoping another day or so of the MiraLAX will get her back to eat again but if it doesn’t, I don’t know what else to do. I have to get some relief from this. I can’t keep doing it. I’m already starting to see issues with her from giving her the wet food as a treat to sneak medicine under her and her not wanting her kibble. but the problem with the wet food as a primary food for her is it so calorically poor and she’ll only eat a half teaspoon at a time.

The Miralax working is a good thing. Maybe her appetite will follow, though it may not be immediately.

Maybe this has already come up but... maybe she'd eat some dry food if it were crushed on top of the wet food? Is she still eating the a/d? That's high-calorie, designed for things like this, to help cats get their appetites and strength back.

 

[louisstools]

The Miralax working is a good thing. Maybe her appetite will follow, though it may not be immediately.

Maybe this has already come up but... maybe she'd eat some dry food if it were crushed on top of the wet food? Is she still eating the a/d? That's high-calorie, designed for things like this, to help cats get their appetites and strength back.

She really doesn't want to eat. I've tried everything and I can't find anything that consistently works. She will eat tiny amounts of a/d -- maybe half a teaspoon if she's feeling hungry. Basically just enough to sneak the medicine in. She will not eat anywhere close to enough to sustain herself. I think she'd need ~7 ounces of a/d to get the same calories she gets from 2.8oz of kibble and there's no way she'd eat that much. When she was on wet food I never got more than 3 ounces in her over a day (she dropped weight FAST).

 

[FeebysOwner]

i’m hoping another day or so of the MiraLAX will get her back to eat again but if it doesn’t, I don’t know what else to do. I have to get some relief from this. I can’t keep doing it. I’m already starting to see issues with her from giving her the wet food as a treat to sneak medicine under her and her not wanting her kibble. but the problem with the wet food as a primary food for her is it so calorically poor and she’ll only eat a half teaspoon at a time.

As long as the Miralax is keeping her from being constipated, that is one thing that is under control, which is an absolute must.

Next step, if/when needed, is the anti-nausea meds.

If she loses weight on this process, then perhaps the vet will agree to a feeding tube...

 

[FriendofFerals]

I have been through the agony of frustration with cats who refuse to eat and it really is the level of hell that Dante forgot about in his "Inferno." What I learned between the two of them:

1. You said diabetes is an issue but what about kidney disease? This can cause nausea.
2. Pancreatitis can case nausea
3. Constipation or spastic diarreah can cause nausea and belly pain. One cat who had diabetes prior to a radical diet change and two week insulin regimen was getting constipation to the point of needing an enema and I had him on Miralax also. Cerenia helped the nausea for a bit but it was a combination of belly pain from constipation and nausea that would set off the hunger strikes.
4. Another cat is on Mirataz gel and has CKD stage II, hyperthyroidism, hypertension, IBD, food/enviromental allergies, severe asthma and psychogenic alopeica. He is on predisolone and mirataz and still barely eats a daily portion and is hanging on at 9lbs (he's 19).

I've tried literally everything with these two and other than mirtazpine/cerenia for one when the nausea hits, and the mirataz/prenisolone for the other, I have learned that making meal time a "positive big deal" helps. Singing "who wants some fooooood?" while loudly rustling bags and opening cans has improved some pre-meal morale a bit, especially now that it's a routine. When one goes super skeptical on me, I've found it helps to kneel down and open the can right in front of them. They get suspicious you're putting something in it (meds) and won't eat.

I've done it that way, put it on a plate instead of a bowl, fed out of my hand, even just glopped it on the floor like "oops, I dropped that" and they seem to want to check it out more.

If they refuse to eat despite all methods and meds for more than 24 hours, we go to assisted feeding in a syringe. Sometimes just getting the taste in their mouth again triggers the urge to eat more and they continue on their own. If they aren't eating or drinking, it's vet time.

I have tried a million brands of food but with one sensitive to all gums and additives with IBD, and both needing low phosphorous (and one no carb) it's really exhausting, I know.

Nausea, pain, gas, nose block (can't smell). If those check out, it could be routine, food texture, warmth of the food, or even just as simple as opening a fresh can right in front of their face and letting them eat it from the can, or your hand, or a plate, or even the floor..

I sincerely hope one of these suggestions works because I know how much this sucks. It's so hard when it's a medical issue and possibly also a behavioral issue, up against the time limit of cats having to eat something.

 

[lisahe]

FriendofFerals , this is a great list of suggestions! Your mentions of routine, texture, and how/how to feed fit closely with how I've had to handle Ireland. Sometimes (even when she's generally eating very well!) she'll lead me all around, refusing her meal... Until I put it in some favorite (unbeknownst to me) spot. And then she eats the whole thing.

I also love that you invoked Dante and circles of hell.

 

[FriendofFerals]

One other thing... you said she's diabetic... Are you aware of the dry food called "Young Again: Zero Mature LID"? It's a limited ingredient, with no digestible carbs. However--it's super nutrient and protein dense so you can't feed a lot. They say 1/3 cup PER DAY for a 12 lb cat but due to the high protein my two old kitties can't eat more than 1/3 cup spilt between the two of them, sprinkled like croutons on their wet food or they get loose stools from all that protein (like eating a lot of jerky). The food is pork protein, so if there is a chicken/fish allergy, it also works.

Just thinking, it's a dry food fix that gets more calories in her. And, if she's constipated, it may help there too without the miralax because if she's interested in it, you have to limit how much they eat or they'll go the other way with the poo (there's extensive directions with the bag explaining it all.

Maybe this might help?? It was a life saver for me trying to keep weight on these two super seniors with a ton of medical issues.

LID Zero Mature Health - Young Again Pet Food

 

[louisstools]

FriendofFerals She has a clean bill of health other than the diabetes. Everything gets checked twice a year b/c of how often I bring the cat in (about every 4-6 weeks) due to not eating. All the bloodwork and all the tests, multiple times a year. We've seen multiple docs and no one can find anything.

The miralax is clearly working but is it "enough" I don't know. She is going more. I do try and make the meals fun with lots of attention before hand and a lot of times she just won't put her damn head in the bowl and eat. She just sits there licking her nose like a snake. Doesn't matter how long it's been, 10, 15 hours...won't eat. Eventually she WILL break down - and I can see her mentally trying to figure out how to not eat - and eat super tiny amounts.

I think a big part of the problem is the mirataz is just no longer working at all. It doesn't seem to matter how much I give her; she just doesn't eat. She won't even look at the food. I've even given her the hills a/d wet food as her treat and sometimes she may lick that but it doesn't stimulate her appetite. I have to be careful and only give her a tiny, tiny taste -- like a pin prick amount -- to avoid the risk of it making her full and replacing a meal.

I've tried dozens of foods and nothing helps. She doesn't like people food either. She really just doesn't want to eat. I don't know how else to describe it. It's almost like she's a vampire and I'm asking her to eat a garlic and holy water soup ...that's how repulsed she is by the concept of eating.

 

[louisstools]

I will add when the cat doesn't eat she also isn't drinking. She seems to only eat when she also is willing to drink.

I'm going to take the cat to the vet today because she is eating WORSE than the two times I brought her in for poor eating and it was due to constipation. I don't think she is constipated based on what she is producing but xrays and an exam will tell us for certain.

If she's got clean pipes then we have no real plan. Maybe we could try a medicine or two for the nausea. I'm leaning more towards just moving on with life and counting the 9 good years I had with the cat as a blessing and just forgetting about the last 3 years of utter hell.

Thank you all, you've been very helpful.

 

[FeebysOwner]

If she's got clean pipes then we have no real plan. Maybe we could try a medicine or two for the nausea. I'm leaning more towards just moving on with life and counting the 9 good years I had with the cat as a blessing and just forgetting about the last 3 years of utter hell.

Try the anti-nausea meds, please. Don't forget, after that you can still press the vet about tube feeding.

And, you might as well be honest with everyone when you say 'moving on' - in that, it is euthanasia you are hinting at. You get to move on with your life - by ending hers.

I know you argued that you weren't willing to re-home her because then your current worries would be replaced with concerns about if she is being taken care of. Having someone else try to work with her is better care for her than being killed.

Don't make this entirely about you - you are talking about another living being. There are people who give their all to help a pet, for a lot longer than 3 years.

 

[lisahe]

I know you argued that you weren't willing to re-home her because then your current worries would be replaced with concerns about if she is being taken care of. Having someone else try to work with her is better care for her than being killed.

I couldn't agree more with what FeebysOwner writes here. If you find it impossible to continue treating Missy, please rehome her.

 

[louisstools]

You're right FeebysOwner ... that is what I mean. I'm just using the polite phrasing. I've looked into rehoming her but at her age, with her diabetes, with her not wanting to eat, and the other more minor health issues I don't think that would be humane. And that's if I could find somewhere to take her and none of the shelters I've reached out to would take her.

I'm really trying to do the best I can for her but at some point I have to at least consider my well being -- which hasn't even been a thought at this point. I'm barely able to work, I'm not getting enough sleep, I can't leave the house, I really can't do much of anything (I do not multi-task or context switch well) because of how demanding the feeding schedule is...and that's when she is eating. I wish I could find another option, I really do. At some point my inability to care for myself will put my ability to care for her in real jeopardy.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I thought that the behaviorist could offer help in regard to finding another person take over Missy's care - since she is the one that suggested it at some point in the past. No, Missy cannot just be handed over to a shelter, even if you could find one that was willing. Having someone else assume responsibility for her is going to require time and a concerted effort to find the right person.

IMO, the only time euthanasia is humane is when a cat is terminally ill, and the illness has reached a stage where there is suffering that can no longer be managed/controlled.

 

[louisstools]

I thought that the behaviorist could offer help in regard to finding another person take over Missy's care - since she is the one that suggested it at some point in the past. No, Missy cannot just be handed over to a shelter, even if you could find one that was willing. Having someone else assume responsibility for her is going to require time and a concerted effort to find the right person.

IMO, the only time euthanasia is humane is when a cat is terminally ill, and the illness has reached a stage where there is suffering that can no longer be managed/controlled.

I've got her searching for a possible option like that. In the mean time I'm going to call the vet and see what they think about letting the cat just not eat and either 1) not giving insulin 2) not giving it on a scheduled/repeatable time or 3) giving a reduced dose but at the scheduled/repeatable time regardless of if the cat has eaten.

 

[FeebysOwner]

In the mean time I'm going to call the vet and see what they think

Make sure your discussion includes Missy's BMs and whether or not enough time has transpired to expect a change in her from not being constipated - as well as what they think about the anti-nausea meds. I would also put the idea back in their mind about tube feeding at some juncture. And, you might as well let them know that you're thinking euthanasia again - maybe that will help light a fire in their desire to help avoid that. If you tell me that vet is on board with euthanasia, then you are working with the wrong vet.

 

[louisstools]

Make sure your discussion includes Missy's BMs and whether or not enough time has transpired to expect a change in her from not being constipated - as well as what they think about the anti-nausea meds. I would also put the idea back in their mind about tube feeding at some juncture. And, you might as well let them know that you're thinking euthanasia again - maybe that will help light a fire in their desire to help avoid that. If you tell me that vet is on board with euthanasia, then you are working with the wrong vet.

well, we managed to get an appointment for tomorrow. Hopefully they can find something and I will ask about nausea although every time I bring that up, they ask me questions about what the cat does and they they don’t think it’s nausea.

The cat still hasn’t eaten yet. I’ve given her 3 inches of stimulant, at least. She won’t eat she and won’t drink. I have not given insulin either. she just kind of sits doesn’t do anything. I take her to the bowl and she looks at it, but then she just does the snake licks and walks away.

 

[Jabzilla]

well, we managed to get an appointment for tomorrow. Hopefully they can find something and I will ask about nausea although every time I bring that up, they ask me questions about what the cat does and they they don’t think it’s nausea.

The cat still hasn’t eaten yet. I’ve given her 3 inches of stimulant, at least. She won’t eat she and won’t drink. I have not given insulin either. she just kind of sits doesn’t do anything. I take her to the bowl and she looks at it, but then she just does the snake licks and walks away.

That nose licking is a sign of nausea, along with the rest of her behavior around food. The fact that the vet doesn't acknowledge that is ridiculous. When my cats are nauseous they also do that nose licking thing. If they're nauseous to the point of throwing up, they lick their lips multiple times. Not vomiting doesn't mean a cat isn't nauseous. I hope throwing up isn't the signal your vet is looking for in order to say Missy is nauseous. The info on this page has been very helpful for me in the past for determining why one of my cats was refusing to eat. Turns out, he was indeed nauseous. Nausea & Inappetence in Cats - Raw Feeding for IBD Cats

 

[FriendofFerals]

When I've hit this wall with my diabetic (under control now) CKD kitty, nausea or nose blockage (allergies, URI, can't smell) has been the cause every time Their instinct is to eat, but if they're nauseous from any condition, can't smell the food--or if all of that is confirmed, if they have a mental block like they think food is always spiked with meds...it's hard. It goes to the point of is there ANYTHING the cat will eat, no matter how bad for them. I have a can of Fancy Feast basic chicken pate for emergencies. If they won't eat that, there's something medically wrong, not psychological. With everyone's special diets, that's like a Quarter Pounder with Cheese. If they don't go for that, seeing me open the can in front of them and put nothing in it, I know it's a physical/pain/nausea issue.