missy sudden behavior change: no longer eating breakfast, just hides

[louisstools]

That is ongoing stress for her - and you too. And, as you have said, this fighting has been going on most of the past 3 years. From all that you have posted, this 'fighting' started back when her buddy, Muggs, died and her behavior and demeanor changed to the point you were ready to give up on her because you couldn't tolerate her not returning to how she was before he became ill and died. You've come a long way since then, but I still think you yearn for those days that will likely never be again. I can't tell you how not to fight with her, but if you could, I think it would go a long way in helping her.

yeah, you’re not wrong. We’ve been getting into some hellacious fights the past few weeks. It gets really hard not to just scream at her. I wish we knew why she was just so difficult.

She’s been real bad today. I’ve had to takeoff work because I just can only deal with one set of problems. All I can do is keep drugging her up and hope that she eventually eats. I had a chat with our vet today and the vet suggested that maybe we just don’t worry about the insulin. If the cat doesn’t wanna eat, the cat doesn’t wanna eat and let’s not stress her out by trying to get her to eat because she needs her insulin. if that means the diabetes becomes unmanaged that’s the best we can do. This cat will not eat so we don’t really have a lot of options.

 

[FeebysOwner]

At least stop screaming at her. But Missy can also sense your frustration too, so you need to find a way to tone that down also. Maybe sing or hum a favorite song of yours while giving her food? Did the vet give you any advice about what to watch for if there turns out to be a problem with her not getting her insulin? Or, something like testing her urine with urine strips? That could be pretty easy to do, just by sticking one under her urine stream while she is in the litter box. No touching her would be required.

Is she on pills or injections for her diabetes? Has she ever been tested for pancreatitis (blood test for feline pancreatic lipase immunoreactivity, or fPLI)? Ultrasounds often don't clearly show the pancreas enough to detect pancreatitis, especially if it is chronic, which in her case it would be considered as such given how long this has been going on. Pancreatitis can actually cause diabetes.

 

[louisstools]

At least stop screaming at her. But Missy can also sense your frustration too, so you need to find a way to tone that down also. Maybe sing or hum a favorite song of yours while giving her food? Did the vet give you any advice about what to watch for if there turns out to be a problem with her not getting her insulin? Or, something like testing her urine with urine strips? That could be pretty easy to do, just by sticking one under her urine stream while she is in the litter box. No touching her would be required.

Is she on pills or injections for her diabetes? Has she ever been tested for pancreatitis (blood test for feline pancreatic lipase immunoreactivity, or fPLI)? Ultrasounds often don't clearly show the pancreas enough to detect pancreatitis, especially if it is chronic, which in her case it would be considered as such given how long this has been going on. Pancreatitis can actually cause diabetes.

I do try and not scream at her. I really do. I’m just not always successful and I do sing to her when she’s eating. we’ve made up a lot of fun little songs.

I don’t think she would let me stick something in her urine stream. I think that would freak her out.

She gets her injections twice a day. The vet just said to watch out for behavior changes like increased thirst and things like that. I’m pretty sure she’s been tested for pancreatitis in blood work. I know last year we did some real expensive and fancy bloodwork that only went to like one or two universities in the country to read it. I don’t remember the details other than it went to Texas A&M. but we’ve done so much bloodwork and test that it all just kind of blurs together.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Find out if she was tested. It is likely the vet or a vet tech can check their records and tell you when/if it was done.

 

[Kflowers]

As I understand it, insulin is to replace the insulin created in the pancreous in response to processing food. If there is no food, then there would be no need -- at that time --- for insulin.
"Insulin is an essential hormone. It helps your body turn food into energy and manages your blood sugar levels. If you have diabetes, your body can’t make enough insulin or can’t use it properly. Your healthcare provider can prescribe manufactured insulin that you take through an injection (shot), injectable pen or pump. Inhalable insulin is also an option."
Insulin: What It Is, What It Does, How To Take It & Side Effects (clevelandclinic.org)

Increasing the stress, from fighting will increase the imbalance of the endocrine system and make the diabetes worse.

I've heard of a FB diabetic cats group. Perhaps you should consider joining it. There wasn't such a group when I had a diabetic cat, but I found the people with diabetes groups to be very helpful.

 

[fionasmom]

There is also the Feline Diabetic Message Boards

Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

Diabetes in Cats Support and Information

felinediabetes.com

 

[lisahe]

I do sing to her when she’s eating. we’ve made up a lot of fun little songs.

This reminds me of a stress-reduction technique I heard about during an online holistic vet conference. While Missy is lying somewhere comfortably, sit with her and stroke her back (firmly but gently, at a good pace but not too fast) and tell her stories. Or sing her a song. I think the vet who suggested this said to include the cat's name (?). I do that and the cats love it. I admit that my stories are pretty repetitive (usually about where they live, what good cats they are, the silly things they do, how much we love them, etc., etc.) but it relaxes me and the cats.

Brown noise (I play it over the Internet sometimes) can also be calming for humans and cats. And sometimes Edwina and I watch bird videos for cats.

Getting back to noises and weather... If you see connections with weather and appetite or stress, you might want to see if it tracks with low barometric pressure. That can make cats and humans feel "off" or even cause them to have more symptoms of illness. We see that with both Edwina (vomiting) and Ireland (wheezing and coughing).

Anyway, just some thoughts about things that have been helpful for us to do and know for our two, who also have very specific schedules and needs.

 

[louisstools]

She stopped eating/drinking earlier today. She wouldn't eat breakfast so I loaded her up with appetite stimulant. Two hours later she ate tiny, tiny amounts and drank a few laps of water. She's not touched anything since and I've given her ~10 more doses of appetite stiumlant. I did take her to the vet and xray showed she was a bit constipated. They did an enema and I'm pretty sure it's all out.

I've given her more appetite stimulant since we've gotten home but she won't even consider being around the food/water bowls. Just hides. Still waiting on her to eat/drink, going on 9 hours (3 is HIGHLY unusual, so this is 'red alert' levels). We're at 36 hours w/o insulin too b/c she hasn't eaten enough for me around the appropriate times to give her the shots. If she doesn't eat by tomorrow morning I suspect she'll have to go back for forced feeding and ivs...or maybe I just make "the call."

 

[FeebysOwner]

What did the vet say about the overload of appetite stimulant you've been giving her? Did you ask the vet about the pancreatitis test? These were things you were supposed to ask about.

I don't know what to say anymore.

 

[louisstools]

What did the vet say about the overload of appetite stimulant you've been giving her? Did you ask the vet about the pancreatitis test? These were things you were supposed to ask about.

I don't know what to say anymore.

She’s OK with the stimulant overload because the dose that my cat gets is only 1/6 of the standard dose. So even on a really bad day, she rarely gets a “full dose" if that makes sense. today is a bit of an exception, but she had an enema, which is pretty exceptional.

and yes, she had the pancreatitis test. It was negative.

I don’t know what to say anymore either. I’m certainly appreciative for all your help. This is just been a problem I can’t crack.

 

[lisahe]

I know I keep harping on constipation but since Missy had to have the enema, that raises the question of what the vet suggests to prevent her from getting constipated again. Particularly since a constipated cat often has no appetite so resolving the constipation might also resolve, if only partially, the feeding problems. There are lots of potential remedies and lots have been listed in this thread. Herbal (slippery elm bark and marshmallow root) is what works for Ireland but lots of other things work for cats. Yes, they'd require some trial and error but perhaps the vet could help with that?

 

[louisstools]

I know I keep harping on constipation but since Missy had to have the enema, that raises the question of what the vet suggests to prevent her from getting constipated again. Particularly since a constipated cat often has no appetite so resolving the constipation might also resolve, if only partially, the feeding problems. There are lots of potential remedies and lots have been listed in this thread. Herbal (slippery elm bark and marshmallow root) is what works for Ireland but lots of other things work for cats. Yes, they'd require some trial and error but perhaps the vet could help with that?

Yeah we discussed miralax but getting it into the cat is the problem. She doesn't do treats or people food so it's hard to sneak medicine into her. We'll talk more tomorrow and discuss this. It's like every 1.5 years she gets really bound up like this.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I guess I wasn't aware you were giving her such a small dose of the Mirataz, nor can I say I understand the logic in having done it that way. Did the vet think it made sense to give her such a small dose and expect results from it? Where is Missy's weight in all of this? Has she lost much weight?

Regarding the Miralax, it is supposedly tasteless. I put it in some baby food meat or a lickable treat and Feeby had no issue with eating it. It is like anything else that a cat needs to take, the bigger the issue you make of it, the more the cat can sense something is off. Did you say you have ever tried baby food meat with Missy? Even if you put it in just one of her 'meals' a day, it may work. Usually, one starts with just a 1/4 tsp a day. So, you could even measure out smaller amounts and place it in multiple meals. Of course, you only need to give it to her when you think she is getting backed up, not as part of her daily routine. If you catch it before it gets so bad that an enema is needed, it might not take much to get her going normally again.

Again, I am at a bit of a loss for words. A reasonably healthy cat may be choosing not to eat, not because of an illness, but perhaps because of the volatile relationship they have with their caretaker. I know you love her, but that isn't all there is to having a good rapport. I know saying this likely to be frustrating for you on top of everything else, but you really need to consider how much you may be playing a role in all of this. Cats can be very sensitive, and I suspect that is especially true of Missy after you both lost Muggs.

 

[louisstools]

I guess I wasn't aware you were giving her such a small dose of the Mirataz, nor can I say I understand the logic in having done it that way. Did the vet think it made sense to give her such a small dose and expect results from it? Where is Missy's weight in all of this? Has she lost much weight?

Regarding the Miralax, it is supposedly tasteless. I put it in some baby food meat or a lickable treat and Feeby had no issue with eating it. It is like anything else that a cat needs to take, the bigger the issue you make of it, the more the cat can sense something is off. Did you say you have ever tried baby food meat with Missy? Even if you put it in just one of her 'meals' a day, it may work. Usually, one starts with just a 1/4 tsp a day. So, you could even measure out smaller amounts and place it in multiple meals. Of course, you only need to give it to her when you think she is getting backed up, not as part of her daily routine. If you catch it before it gets so bad that an enema is needed, it might not take much to get her going normally again.

Again, I am at a bit of a loss for words. A reasonably healthy cat may be choosing not to eat, not because of an illness, but perhaps because of the volatile relationship they have with their caretaker. I know you love her, but that isn't all there is to having a good rapport. I know saying this likely to be frustrating for you on top of everything else, but you really need to consider how much you may be playing a role in all of this. Cats can be very sensitive, and I suspect that is especially true of Missy after you both lost Muggs.

Yeah, the small dose was really just to give her a bit of a boost to try and reduce my stress and give me relief because she just eats so little.. and it did give me a nice quality of life improvement compared to what we were. I don’t think we expected her to be on it this long because we expected her to start eating on her own, but she really doesn’t do that. We also expected her to eventually start eating more at meals, but she really doesn’t. Five or six kibble that’s all she wants.

She’s down about half a pound on the year. I haven’t tried the baby food with her so. and yes, finding the correct dosage will be very critical. The crazy thing is I either see her go to the litter box in person because I happen to be in the room when she does it or I have the cameras. And I review each litter. I didn’t see any signs of constipation until I noticed she was very lethargic today and her stomach was making weird noises.

and you’re not wrong about the volatile relationship. I’m sure it’s an uneasy relationship at best very likely quite a bit volatile. That could be the source of a lot of things. she did stop eating before mugs passed, and that was long before I had to get hyper involved with her eating. Maybe at that point there was something wrong with her but then overtime it’s now more due to our uneasy relationship.

 

[FeebysOwner]

It was not my place to say what I said, but I think I was shocked by you mentioning you might have to make 'the call'. I know she is a struggle to handle and I know it is so very frustrating for you, but it still was a shock to hear you suggest something like that. My apologies.

 

[louisstools]

It was not my place to say what I said, but I think I was shocked by you mentioning you might have to make 'the call'. I know she is a struggle to handle and I know it is so very frustrating for you, but it still was a shock to hear you suggest something like that. My apologies.

oh, you’re fine. I didn’t think you were out of line if you were concerned about that. I thought you had a polite and respectful comment that quite frankly was on point.

and regarding what I said about the call, she’s been pretty difficult the past couple of months. she might’ve been difficult before that, but she was always predictable and now she’s been a bit unpredictable. I’ve been wondering if something’s up with her. maybe this whole time it’s been constipation. and I’ve been really concerned the past couple of weeks that maybe it is time because she had been withdrawing and just hiding all day.

but as of right now, she is a lot more perked up than she was the past couple of days. And she’s sitting right next to me on the couch, a bit annoyingly close, but she likes to sit next to me. maybe it was constipation this whole time..

 

[louisstools]

oh - also, she's eating and drinking. she slept for a good four hour or so and then wanted to eat a bit.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I am glad to hear all that. It warms my heart to know that the two of you can 'cuddle', even if it is a bit 'out of your comfort zone'.

 

[louisstools]

I am glad to hear all that. It warms my heart to know that the two of you can 'cuddle', even if it is a bit 'out of your comfort zone'.

Oh, we cuddle all the time. She’s a sweet girl. It’s more that she likes to sit really close to me on the couch to where she’s partly on my cushion and then partly on another cushion to where I'm going cramped. Sometimes I’ll slide her over but she gets really mad.

 

[lisahe]

oh - also, she's eating and drinking. she slept for a good four hour or so and then wanted to eat a bit.

Of course I'm (very!) biased since I see almost identical behaviors in Ireland but everything that you write convinces me more that constipation is at the root of Missy's eating problem. It's an insidious problem. And very sneaky. In our experience, it's appetite -- rather than litter box output -- that lets us know that Ireland is constipated. We haven't been able to completely stop her constipation (she still has some rough days) but we've been able to ease it a lot. She, too, isn't a big eater but she really likes the taste of two of the supplements that we use. And I syringe the third. The big thing is to recognize small dips in her appetite so I can keep her eating, which, in turn helps prevent her from worsening.

As I mentioned above, I know there are dozens of things that can help a constipated cat. After trying pumpkin and egg yolk, which work very well for lots of cats, we settled on using herbal remedies designed for cats and dogs. But lots of human remedies apparently work, too! You might also ask your vet about motility drugs that could help speed Missy's digestive process. (Our previous vet always told us that cats' digestive tracts slow as they age...)

Here's what we use, just in case you want to ask your vet about herbal supplements. Our vet is happy for us to use all of these; I've done lots of math to be sure we're not overdoing the slippery elm bark ingredients!
-Slippery elm bark syrup, as described on this vet-written page, though I make half-strangth syrup, which I syringe in small amounts twice a day: Slippery Elm | Little Big Cat - Dr. Jean Hofve
-Vet's Best Hairball Relief Digestive Aid (includes psyllium husk): Cat Hairball Relief Digestive Aid
-Adored Beast's Feline Gut Soothe (herbs and probiotics): Feline Gut Soothe

Finally, I'm glad you and Missy have had some nice snuggling time. I think you need each other's support! Fingers crossed for her to continue feeling better.