missy sudden behavior change: no longer eating breakfast, just hides

[louisstools]

we have an appointment to see an internal medicine specialist next week. She’s still not eating very well. we’re averaging about 22 meals a day just to get calories in her. She’s averaging about 168 cal a day. and we start the day with the full 1.5 inches of appetite stimulant and most days she gets another half inch at least in the evening to perk her up because she just stops eating.

If we rewind the clock back two months she was averaging about 240 cal a day and about 10 or 12 meals and she was getting a half inch to 3/4 of an inch of the appetite stimulant.

I’m also having to stay up about four or five hours more a day in order to get those meals in her. Otherwise I don’t think most days she would break 100 cal because those late late meals she tends to do better.

So that’s what I mean like she’s gone downhill drastically.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Good thing you have the specialist appt. coming up. Hopefully they will come up with some ideas.

 

[Robyn5678]

How is missy? What day is her specialist appt?

 

[louisstools]

How is missy? What day is her specialist appt?

It was yesterday.

The specialist appointment was very underwhelming. She has no real idea what is wrong with Missy -- paraphrasing but her words. We're re-doing the GI blood work and might re-do an ultrasound. But she has no real idea other than a vitamin deficiency. Just shooting in the dark that the bloodwork might show us something. I got the impression I was wasting her time.

She did mention how many calories Missy needs to eat per day (220) and I said that's fine but I can't get that much in her. The doc looked very puzzled and confused and she said that should be easy for the cat. I just said "Nope, that's why we're here. I can't get more than 180 calories into her. That's on appetite stimulant and hand feeding her 20 meals a day, staying awake 20 hours a day to get more feedings into her AND a day she is cooperating. There's no way I can get that many calories into her, that's amount is almost a joke at this point." The crappy part is this specialist is the only one in my area. My only other option is 2 hours away at the state university. I may talk to our vet about a referral there if this local specialist fizzles out.

As far as the cat goes, she is eating less and less each day. There is nothing more I can do than wait and see what happens. Maybe the vets will find something. We're done to around 1.6oz of kibble, from an average of 2.8oz a month ago. 2.4oz is the amount of kibble she needs to eat.

 

[Robyn5678]

It was yesterday.

The specialist appointment was very underwhelming. She has no real idea what is wrong with Missy -- paraphrasing but her words. We're re-doing the GI blood work and might re-do an ultrasound. But she has no real idea other than a vitamin deficiency. Just shooting in the dark that the bloodwork might show us something. I got the impression I was wasting her time.

She did mention how many calories Missy needs to eat per day (220) and I said that's fine but I can't get that much in her. The doc looked very puzzled and confused and she said that should be easy for the cat. I just said "Nope, that's why we're here. I can't get more than 180 calories into her. That's on appetite stimulant and hand feeding her 20 meals a day, staying awake 20 hours a day to get more feedings into her AND a day she is cooperating. There's no way I can get that many calories into her, that's amount is almost a joke at this point." The crappy part is this specialist is the only one in my area. My only other option is 2 hours away at the state university. I may talk to our vet about a referral there if this local specialist fizzles out.

As far as the cat goes, she is eating less and less each day. There is nothing more I can do than wait and see what happens. Maybe the vets will find something. We're done to around 1.6oz of kibble, from an average of 2.8oz a month ago. 2.4oz is the amount of kibble she needs to eat.

Aww man I had hoped maybe she’d have some more insight. How did the specialist respond to you saying you feed her 20 times a day, etc.?

If this is any comfort to you, my girl is 11 pounds and only eats around 180 calories a day. She gets 2 cans of fancy feast and sometimes doesn’t even eat all that. I also give her some freeze dried chicken. I tried giving her more and she just doesn’t want it.

I’m not sure if you ever mentioned how much missy weighs but if the vet recommends 220 is she around 10 or 11 pounds? Which seems like a good weight for a cat - that’s what both of mine are. Can you see her ribs? On this scale, where is she?

 

[louisstools]

Yeah, I was hoping they'd have some insight too. We'll see what the test says.

She is 14lbs and is maybe slightly over weight but our vet is not concerned about her weight. That's the problem that we keep running into with vets. They ignore what I tell them and just go with what the scale says. Scale says the cat is eating fine. Owner says I have to drug her ass up and feed her 20 times a day and if I stop doing that -- and I have -- she won't even get 100 calories in a day. Scale trumps whatever owner says.

She didn't have a response to when I said "220 calories, that's impossible" or when I explained how many feedings it takes. She just looked confused. After a bit of silence after one of those confused pauses I said "This is why I'm here, to fix this so she's eating the proper amount without a fight."

 

[lisahe]

I can understand why the vet was confused. A cat that weighs 14 pounds but doesn't want to eat? It sounds paradoxical.

And maybe I missed something but I thought Missy was very thin!

Has any vet -- this one or your regular vet -- ever suggested that Missy might have IBD? That can cause all sorts of odd things. When Edwina was diagnosed with it, she also weighed about 14 pounds but was often hesitant to eat. One vet that she saw had a similar reaction to your specialist's. The thing about IBD is that it can be tricky to diagnose (and treat, too), it seems like it's kind of a catchall, last-resort diagnosis. And very, very individual in terms of symptoms, quirks, and solutions. Edwina was diagnosed because of an ultrasound that showed thickening of her intestine and then a biopsy of tissue taken out when she had stomach surgery.

I don't recall your saying that Missy vomits much... But if she has known food sensitivities or allergies those would be signs. So can the hiding. Anyway, just a thought, given the weight and the lack of appetite.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I am confused. Your vet didn't have any conversation with specialist? It doesn't sound like she knew anything nor had any records about Missy from your vet. It would have been helpful for the specialist to have gotten the history directly from your vet, and I honestly don't understand why that didn't happen.

I guess your comment of 'see what test says' is about all I can say too at this moment.

 

[louisstools]

lisahe yes IBD has been one of the things that has gotten kicked around. She's had the fancy GI test twice (March 2023 and last week) and ultrasound (March 2023) and everything is normal. So definitely no IBD. The specialist didn't see a need for the ultrasound but was willing to do it but implied it's likely just burning money. And yes, it is paradoxical especially when they tell me how much she needs to eat and I'm like "I can get her to eat half of that, if we dope her up and fight all day..."

FeebysOwner this specialty group is weird. Only game in town (St. Louis, MO) so they make the rules. They don't speak to the vets at all. They barely speak to the owner and they only do so AFTER all the examination is complete. They just review the medical records but they only go back a year. She had the medical records in her hands when I met her but the was only willing to look at the past year so she didn't know we'd already done ultrasound and things to rule out IBD. I may speak to our doctor about getting that referral to Mizzou ... the other specialist group in the state. I'm kinda at a point where I don't want to do business with this specialty practice.

Also, we got the test results back from the GI bloodwork. Completely normal. The specialist basically threw her hands up and said "I don't know." There's no next steps. She said I could go back with my doctor and we can keep trying "random shit" (I'm paraphrasing) and see if something helps, like solensia to help the arthritus. It's possible helping arthritis would help her eat...but we don't know...it's a wild ass guess.

As far as update goes, since I am here, she had been doing tolerable-ish all week. Averaging around 180 calories, which is way below what she was doing a month ago (250). Today though she's been really bad. She started out great -- even stayed out in the morning and ate normal-ish (but half the amount) and then stopped eating about noon. I can't get her to eat or drink and so far I'm 5 hours past bed time. She just runs and hides. Even sitting with her on the couch she waits for me to close my eyes and she darts off to hide. Never seen her do this. She's never gone this long without eating and yes I've doped her way up. She's at about 90 calories for the day. I got a feeling this is going to be the new normal because she's been eating less and less each day and this tiny amount of food -- a little over an ounce -- is really all she has been willing to eat since this started.

 

[southbound]

14 lbs.? If the cat doesn't look skinny and I don't know how it could weighing 14 and she doesn't exhibit any strange behavior I fail to see the problem. If the tests come back fine I would just stop driving myself crazy. Really.

 

[louisstools]

Well, she does exhibit strange behavior. She doesn't eat without a lot of coaxing and energy. That's the problem.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Too bad nothing was revealed from the testing. Although, it is good her tests came out OK. It sure would be nice to find a more communicative, cooperative specialist though. Maybe another one would be willing to review all her records - for a longer time from the past, and actually work with your vet as a consultant at first, especially if they are farther away.

Since the idea is to try anything, maybe next is the anti-nausea meds?

I guess you have to keep doing what you can for now to get her to eat, and weigh her periodically to see what her food reduction is doing to her weight. No one wants to see her lose weight, but that might be the final trigger for a feeding tube.

 

[Robyn5678]

Not sure if you’ve ever answered this, but if you were to not give her the appetite stimulant or try to force feed her, and just put down the kibble she loves and leave her alone, what is the longest she’s gone without eating?

I keep going back to wondering how much of this is anxiety and stress related.

 

[southbound]

Well, she does exhibit strange behavior. She doesn't eat without a lot of coaxing and energy. That's the problem.

I think you might be stressing over nothing. The cat isn't underweight. If the cat weighed 5 lbs I would be freaking out but 14 might even be considered overweight depending upon her size. I'd leave the cat alone for a few weeks then have her looked at. Can you feel the cats ribs? Does she look like the skinny pic in the diagram that was put up on the thread a few days ago?

I have 5 cats 3 males 2 females. 10-11 years old except for the 1 male who is 6 now. They all eat on their own and weigh between 10 and 11 lbs. They all have the pouch underneath and you can' feel their ribs.

Unless you have a cougar or something 14 lbs is fine.

 

[louisstools]

Not sure if you’ve ever answered this, but if you were to not give her the appetite stimulant or try to force feed her, and just put down the kibble she loves and leave her alone, what is the longest she’s gone without eating?

I keep going back to wondering how much of this is anxiety and stress related.

Yeah we've tried that a few times in the past. She'll eat about 0.6oz over a 24 hour period. She never ate more than 0.8oz on her own (1.0oz is 89 calories). When she eats this little she also drinks a lot less. Both trials were a week long and both resulted in dehydration, constipation, and UTIs. During the six months we tried wet food with her we also did a trial like this with wet food and the results were the same. She ate about the same amount of wet food but got far less calories since wet food is generally calorically poor per weight compared to dry. She also didn't drink and was dehydrated and had constipation and UTIs.

Stress/anxiety has been a thought we've had, yes.

Oz are weight units measured by a kitchen scale; not volume based.

Edit: There was also one time I had her kenneled when I had to travel for a weekend. She went 36 hours w/o food or water. The kennel had never seen a cat go this long without eating or drinking. Had I not come home that day they would have given her an IV and force fed her.

 

[Robyn5678]

Stress/anxiety has been a thought we've had, yes.

Has she been tried on anxiety meds?

 

[louisstools]

Has she been tried on anxiety meds?

Only mirataz which can help with that. IIRC all the other meds were pill based and pills are not an option. Even if one was able to be transdermal, she requires so much mirataz to keep eating that I have to use both ears every day. Her ears are too small to hold that amount of mirataz.

 

[FeebysOwner]

If Mirataz isn't that effective as an appetite stimulant, I doubt it would be any more effective for anxiety.

 

[Robyn5678]

Only mirataz which can help with that. IIRC all the other meds were pill based and pills are not an option. Even if one was able to be transdermal, she requires so much mirataz to keep eating that I have to use both ears every day. Her ears are too small to hold that amount of mirataz.

My parents gave their cat bupoprion (I think it was called) that was a pill. That’s what most probably would be. I know it’s not always easy to give pills to cats but if you’re already fighting and force feeding her, as you’ve said previously, why can’t you just drop a pill in there. Maybe if that turns out to be the issue, you wouldn’t have to do that so much. Sorry just trying to come up with any solutions or ideas that may help you and missy.

 

[louisstools]

My parents gave their cat bupoprion (I think it was called) that was a pill. That’s what most probably would be. I know it’s not always easy to give pills to cats but if you’re already fighting and force feeding her, as you’ve said previously, why can’t you just drop a pill in there. Maybe if that turns out to be the issue, you wouldn’t have to do that so much. Sorry just trying to come up with any solutions or ideas that may help you and missy.

I know you're trying to help It's a tough case to solve. She requires two vet techs to restrain her while a third one gives her the pill. That's how much of a fighter she is. In the past we've tried sneaking a pill in food but she always caches it. Right now she gets her miralax in a tiny amount of wet food and so far that is going well...but miralax is famously known to be tasteless/odorless. I keep waiting for her to refuse that one day. She almost refused it today...so we might be there already. The risk with adding another med to her miralax + wet food mix is it could turn her off to the miralax and then I have no way to get that into her. Once she gets turned off for a food, that's it. She is a tough case.