missy sudden behavior change: no longer eating breakfast, just hides

[FriendofFerals]

That nose licking is a sign of nausea, along with the rest of her behavior around food. The fact that the vet doesn't acknowledge that is ridiculous. When my cats are nauseous they also do that nose licking thing. If they're nauseous to the point of throwing up, they lick their lips multiple times. Not vomiting doesn't mean a cat isn't nauseous. I hope throwing up isn't the signal your vet is looking for in order to say Missy is nauseous. The info on this page has been very helpful for me in the past for determining why one of my cats was refusing to eat. Turns out, he was indeed nauseous. Nausea & Inappetence in Cats - Raw Feeding for IBD Cats

YES this nose licking thing especially when food is offered, smelled, and turned down is exactly what mine does when it's nausea. Then I know to get the gall bladder, pancreas, kidneys etc checked because all of them are an issue. Diabetes is fine now for 3 years with the no-carb dry food and only low carb wet food.

 

[louisstools]

That nose licking is a sign of nausea, along with the rest of her behavior around food. The fact that the vet doesn't acknowledge that is ridiculous. When my cats are nauseous they also do that nose licking thing. If they're nauseous to the point of throwing up, they lick their lips multiple times. Not vomiting doesn't mean a cat isn't nauseous. I hope throwing up isn't the signal your vet is looking for in order to say Missy is nauseous. The info on this page has been very helpful for me in the past for determining why one of my cats was refusing to eat. Turns out, he was indeed nauseous. Nausea & Inappetence in Cats - Raw Feeding for IBD Cats

It's not really nose licking...it's snake licking. She just darts her tongue out. But yeah she just does that 24x7x365.

Edit: And she really does this licking ALL the time. She could be laying on the couch with me as I watch tv and she'll just sit there doing it. It's not just something that is done at the bowl. In fact she does it far more often away from food.

 

[louisstools]

YES this nose licking thing especially when food is offered, smelled, and turned down is exactly what mine does when it's nausea. Then I know to get the gall bladder, pancreas, kidneys etc checked because all of them are an issue. Diabetes is fine now for 3 years with the no-carb dry food and only low carb wet food.

all of that has been checked, multiple times each year. everything is clear.

edit: But does your cat have this 24x7x365? My cat has been on mirataz daily for 2 years and that is supposed to help with nausea as well as appetite. So even on this drug my cat shows these signs 24x7x365. Whatever it is, she's always got it.

 

[louisstools]

When I've hit this wall with my diabetic (under control now) CKD kitty, nausea or nose blockage (allergies, URI, can't smell) has been the cause every time Their instinct is to eat, but if they're nauseous from any condition, can't smell the food--or if all of that is confirmed, if they have a mental block like they think food is always spiked with meds...it's hard. It goes to the point of is there ANYTHING the cat will eat, no matter how bad for them. I have a can of Fancy Feast basic chicken pate for emergencies. If they won't eat that, there's something medically wrong, not psychological. With everyone's special diets, that's like a Quarter Pounder with Cheese. If they don't go for that, seeing me open the can in front of them and put nothing in it, I know it's a physical/pain/nausea issue.

There is nothing she will eat to break this. Nothing. I've tried around 100 different wet foods and found nothing she would consitently eat. She turned down hills a/d multiple times today (that's the only wet food I have right now). Do you give your cats any meds to get past this?

 

[southbound]

Very tough. You still seeing the same vet?

 

[louisstools]

Very tough. You still seeing the same vet?

We are.

Edit: I've had great success with this vet in the past. She's caught all sorts of things the other vets have missed.

 

[FeebysOwner]

This deal with Missy sticking her tongue out - something more recent? I don't think I remember you mentioning this until just very recently. Nonetheless, I would still consider what she is doing to be a sign of nauseousness. You can split hairs on the 'descriptions', but every cat doesn't do everything in the exact same manner, nor do all people describe them the exact same way.

And, if a cat is nauseous, they will feel that way and demonstrate that at other times than just when being presented with food. So, the fact that she does it 'all the time' is in no way shape or form a factor that can enable you to dismiss/rule out nauseousness.

You say the vet doesn't think Missy is nauseous - based on what? And, I don't suppose you talked to her about this 'tongue sticking' routine, have you?

 

[louisstools]

The tongue thing she has been doing for years. I don't mention it often, but I have. The vet has known about it and seen it but generally didn't think it was related to nausea b/c she always checks out clean in the exams and blood work.

The vet is inclined to think there are two medical reasons for Missy's sudden change in appetite. One is a resorption lesion (FORL) that we have been watching for the past two years. The other is nausea with an unknown cause. The cat is definitely not constipated anymore.

She is leaning a bit more towards the forl being the problem and causing her pain because she found no other evidence of anything that could be causing her nausea and she did see the forl in her mouth. To test the hypothesis Missy got an injection of a pain medicine and if she improves today/tomorrow this could indicate that is the problem. If there is no change we'll try an injection for nausea and see how she does. She'll need some dental work to fix the forl. For the nausea, there are drugs we could try but ideally we'd be able to find the cause.

Since she's got that pain shot she has been a different cat. She's drinking and eating though still not quite normal amounts. But she is eating and she hadn't eaten very much all day. She's all more affectionate and playful.

 

[Jabzilla]

Omg, it sounds like you guys have found the problem! I'm very pleased with her sudden improvement from the pain med. Fingers crossed that's the source of her woes and once the dental issues are fixed, she'll be back to normal!

 

[louisstools]

Omg, it sounds like you guys have found the problem! I'm very pleased with her sudden improvement from the pain med. Fingers crossed that's the source of her woes and once the dental issues are fixed, she'll be back to normal!

Maybe. I'm hopeful. But her appetite has been poor for YEARS, long before we've been watching this forl. I suspect it's both this and nausea...but the cause is unknown.

 

[lisahe]

Since she's got that pain shot she has been a different cat. She's drinking and eating though still not quite normal amounts. But she is eating and she hadn't eaten very much all day. She's all more affectionate and playful

This is great to hear! I hope this theory leads to at least a partial resolution of the problem. Since pain can cause stress and stress can affect appetite, it's possible the pain med is all she'll need. I sure hope so! No matter what, it sounds as if at least part of this might be solved.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I hope your vet is onto something here. I wouldn't discount it being the source of Missy's appetite issues, because the timing isn't all that off.

But, if she is acting/feeling and eating a bit better with pain meds, then there is pain going on from something - maybe not just the FORL. Pain meds, given her history with appetite issues, might not resolve her problems 'overnight'.

Do you know what pain med she was given, and how often it can/needs to be repeated?

EDIT: I also have to believe that pain can go as far as to cause nausea. A bit disappointed that your vet didn't say something about that. Maybe another question to ask.

 

[louisstools]

I hope your vet is onto something here. I wouldn't discount it being the source of Missy's appetite issues, because the timing isn't all that off.

But, if she is acting/feeling and eating a bit better with pain meds, then there is pain going on from something - maybe not just the FORL. Pain meds, given her history with appetite issues, might not resolve her problems 'overnight'.

Do you know what pain med she was given, and how often it can/needs to be repeated?

EDIT: I also have to believe that pain can go as far as to cause nausea. A bit disappointed that your vet didn't say something about that. Maybe another question to ask.

Yeah it could be a few things. This medicine was a one time shot to try and rule things out. It would not be a permanent pain solution. That would involve fixing that hurty tooth and some other drug that isn't a shot. She wanted to rule this out first over nausea. We only try one thing at a time with the cat to eliminate variables at play b/c Missy is a very difficult patient. She was inclined to think the core issue isn't nausea b/c there are times the cat doesn't want to eat her kibble but she totally will the hills a/d with miralax in it.

Edit: Having experienced what I did 3 years ago trying to find a food Missy would eat, ever since I've had to give her the hills a/d for miralax purposes I've been scared the cat will go off the kibble. I've tested her to see how much wet food she would eat and it's the same as years ago: about a tea spoon and that's not nearly enough to survive. I hope what we're seeing isn't a food preference issue because -- and I have the massive stockpile of cans of wet food she won't eat in the basement still -- there isn't a food she prefers. She'll eat it once and that's all...never again.

 

[louisstools]

We had a good night and she ate very well. I did give her another 3/4 of an inch of mirataz though because while she was eating she was still eating super small amounts. Right around 0.1oz by scale.

This morning things have been terrible so far. I put food down, she looked at it, and walked away to go hide. She wouldn't take a bite. I'll "let her starve herself" as everyone tells me to do (not in those words) and call the vet at 8 when they open and see what they advise. It's been 9 hours as I write this since she last ate/drank.

I will add that this week she's been drinking about half the amount of water she had been. That makes sense given how little she has been eating and how unpredictable her eating has been.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I sure hope the vet suggests another 'dose' of pain meds. A one time test isn't much to work with. It would be interesting to see if her eating picks up a bit again, and her improved demeanor, with some more pain meds. I mean if it makes her feel better I guess I don't understand why the vet would deny her that, until other matters, like her tooth, are taken care of.

 

[lisahe]

I sure hope the vet suggests another 'dose' of pain meds. A one time test isn't much to work with. It would be interesting to see if her eating picks up a bit again, and her improved demeanor, with some more pain meds. I mean if it makes her feel better I guess I don't understand why the vet would deny her that, until other matters, like her tooth, are taken care of.

Very much agreeing with this on all counts and hoping the vet will prescribe more pain meds.

 

[louisstools]

I sure hope the vet suggests another 'dose' of pain meds. A one time test isn't much to work with. It would be interesting to see if her eating picks up a bit again, and her improved demeanor, with some more pain meds. I mean if it makes her feel better I guess I don't understand why the vet would deny her that, until other matters, like her tooth, are taken care of.

We had a long exam at the vet. Full bloodwork -- the works -- was done since the cat was fasting and we'll have the results Tuesday. She's looking for cancer or something with the kidney/pancreas/liver/thydoid. She mentioned we may want to do another ultrasound for IBD. She doesn't feel any masses and previous bloodwork was fine. Diabetes looked good with the blood and urine samples so that's under control.

The cat got a shot of cerenia and I have some pills to try and get into her daily until we get the bloodwork and can make a plan. I asked about more pain medicine and she mentioned that she didn't want to give her another dose so soon because it hadn't even been 24 hours. She said the pain medicine is certainly still in her system and if she's not eating then we may need to look elsewhere for the problem. She noted that the cat did not fuss when she was examining the tooth and poking and prodding it so this might not be the problem. It's still a problem but maybe not THE problem.

fingers crossed the bloodwork has something. The vet did note that in her last bloodwork one of her levels in something was getting on the high side and she wants to check that out because that could be it.

Since we've been home the cat has eaten very well and drank too. She's affectionate and just herself. Much more than yesterday too. I also don't see her snake licking. She had been doing that ALL morning too.

We'll see. I just hope I can make it b/c I'm exhausted and now I got to figure out how to get pills into her. For the vet to even suggest I give her pills tells me just how much she is leaning towards the nausea being more of the problem than pain.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I am not sure why you are hoping for the bloodwork to show something. It would be a new development, and to your point previously about other things, it would seem it wouldn't likely be the cause of Missy's appetite issue. You'd be better off hoping that it is nausea and can be treated with anti-nausea meds. There are cats who go through nausea without it having a definitive cause, and sometimes treating it and getting the cat to eat better is all it takes to reverse the nausea. Even if this were Missy's case, because it has gone on so long, it isn't going to resolve quickly - there are long term habits to be undone even if she feels better about eating.

Maybe a daily trip to the vet for a few days to get a Cerenia injection would be worth it. If it does help, it will be easier to get her to take med orally. There are also a ton of ways to compound Cerenia, if it comes to that.

It is also curious that Missy has now come back twice from the vets and eaten better. The first time was the pain med, and now Cerenia. I wonder if that is another question to pose to the vet as to what they think that might be all about.

 

[louisstools]

Yeah, whatever it is won't be easy. But it's been absolute hell keeping her alive so far. I just hope I have long enough in me to come up with a diagnosis and game plan that gets her to "just eat" and gets me the relief I've been screaming for. I really can't take this much longer...days at best. I can't take care of her unless I am in a good position and I'm not in a good position...I'm far too exhausted and stressed.

I suppose the end plan will to just be drug the silly cat up with loads of appetite stimulant, nausea, and pain drugs and hope for the best. That seems to be on the path we are on unless we can find an actual cause that we can treat.

 

[FeebysOwner]

It is not necessarily a permanent thing with the meds. As I said, sometimes, getting a cat past long term nausea impacts and eating better is all it takes. If it were to be pain, and meds can make her feel better, then she might be more accommodating about taking them.

I know you are frustrated, tired, and feel defeated enough to have a negative attitude, but you only make matters worse (for the both of you) if you start in on this new endeavor with nothing but contempt about its possibilities. At least things are being tried now that could prove to be more fruitful than the past efforts have been.