Manganese requirement?

[sophie1]

I've been using individual supplements in place of the Alnutrin mix, based on Lisa Pierson's recipe - as many here do.

The recipe doesn't include manganese, but Alnutrin's formula does and several members here report using it.  I'm wondering if I should as well, but is it truly necessary??  It should be present in the ground bone, liver and kidney, and unlike the nutrients that are included in supplement recipes, it can't degrade through grinding or freezing because it's an element.  Moreover, too large amounts can be toxic (though probably that would require long term, very large doses).

So I'm inclined not to include that in my supplement recipe, but I would like to understand the rationale better.  Can one of the people who use it post some specific info?

 

[mschauer]

The primary reason I add supplements to my homemade food is because I recognize that the bits and pieces of animals that I feed my cats bear little resemblance to the fresh whole prey cats have evolved to use to satisfy their nutritional needs especially when you consider those animal bits and pieces are coming from animals that also weren't fed a natural diet.

To determine what supplements to add I compare the nutritional analysis of my food to AAFCO and NRC recommendations. When I do that my foods, using common grocery store meat and organs, come up a bit short with regards to manganese so I add some.

The AAFCO and NRC recommendations aren't perfect. Just because a food falls short of their nutrient profile recommendations doesn't necessarily mean there is a problem with the food. Supplementing with manganese probably belongs in the better safe than sorry column. At first I flip flopped quite a bit on whether to supplement with it. There was something that was the deciding factor for me to include it but I don't recall offhand what it was. If I can find what it was I'll update. 

BTW, almost everything is toxic at high enough levels, even water. When I look at supplementing my foods I always keep safe upper limits in mind.

Edit: Just a bit more information: Neither the AAFCO or the FEDIAF (European equivalent of the AAFCO) specify maximum safe upper limits on manganese in cat food but the FEDIAF has a maximum legal limit of 17 mg/100 g DM. For the 12 lbs of approx 75% moisture food that I typically make that works out to a max of 231 mg. The amount I add is 10 mg.

 

[sophie1]

Thanks mschauer - I was hoping you would respond!

So it appears that supplementing with manganese is a good idea if you are feeding grocery bought bits & parts, whether ground or fed in chunks, but it's probably not necessary for whole animal grinds.  I guess the same applies for a source of iodine (kelp, lite iodized salt...).

There are lots of threads with bits and pieces of info, but it would be great to include all this in the general "how-to" guide.  There are so many great nuggets of information that have been presented here.  It's also a topic that creates lots of angst because we're all so afraid to get it wrong.  I definitely was since my cats are young (~1 year old) and they have a lifetime ahead of them to develop insufficiency diseases, if I screw up.

 

[mschauer]

 
Thanks mschauer - I was hoping you would respond!

So it appears that supplementing with manganese is a good idea if you are feeding grocery bought bits & parts, whether ground or fed in chunks, but it's probably not necessary for whole animal grinds.  I guess the same applies for a source of iodine (kelp, lite iodized salt...).

I wouldn't argue with that statement but I don't necessarily agree with it. Remember part of my rationale for supplementing is that the animals we use to create our homemade foods usually aren't raised on their natural diets. The nutrient levels found in their tissues will depend on their diet. So would a farm raised animal, even a whole one, have sufficient manganese? 

Edit: The situation with iodine is a little different. Most of the iodine in the body is in the thyroid. Few of us have access to thyroid to include in our foods so we supplement using kelp, iodized lite salt, etc. But if feeding true whole prey, including the thyroid, supplementing with iodine is believed to not be necessary.

 There are lots of threads with bits and pieces of info, but it would be great to include all this in the general "how-to" guide.  There are so many great nuggets of information that have been presented here.  It's also a topic that creates lots of angst because we're all so afraid to get it wrong.  I definitely was since my cats are young (~1 year old) and they have a lifetime ahead of them to develop insufficiency diseases, if I screw up.

A lot of the problem is that, especially with regards to supplementing, there is much disagreement. I know there are a lot of people reading this thread and rolling their eyes thinking "No supplementation is needed if you follow the 80-10-5-5 rule." 

 

[KittyCuddler]

Sorry to resurrect such an old thread, but this thread comes up pretty early in search results (DuckDuckGo, Google); hopefully my resurrection of it will help someone else who searches on this issue in the future.

That being said.... here's my question.

What 'form' of manganese is ideal for cats...? I see the following forms in existence (in supplements):
- manganese bisglycinate chelate
- manganese glycinate chelate
- manganese citrate
- manganese aspartate
- manganese aspartate amino acid chelate
- manganese amino acid chelate
- manganese sulfate
- manganese asporotate
- manganese picolinate
- manganese sulfate monohydrate
- manganese methionine complex
- manganese chloride
- manganese gluconate
- ionic manganese

Any idea which form works best?

I understand that manganese needs to be "paired with" something for absorption (just like how magnesium does). So I get why there are so many forms. But....what is the "thing" it should be paired with for the best results (without causing adverse effects)...?

If someone has a brand they use already, and has never had any bad results with it when making their own at-home cat food, please let me know.

Thanks!

 

[mschauer]

The manganese supplement I use is manganese gluconate (Twinlabs). I'm not aware of any advantages or disadvantages of any of the various forms.

 

[MissTuna]

Hi, i use mussels as they are a great resource of manganese. I personally use a spreadsheet to calculate my cat food ingredients in order for it to meat those guidelines. And based on that, 4% of cooked mussels added to your raw or cooked diet will satisfy NRC’s requirement for cats needs. And yes, both NRC and AAFCO didn’t quite figure out manganese level themselves at the first place lol.

 

[oyster]

Unfortunately, I didn't find this thread till I specifically searched for manganese in a cat's diet. This is very relevant info for me, as a newbie. I am 100% on board a raw diet and have successfully transitioned two of my cats to eating it but it's only been a week. One of them refuses rabbit but is all right with the other meats. However, I am still not getting the supplementing right. It gets very stressful figuring out their meal every morning especially as I have to add a lot of supplements for my CKD cat.
Also, I do not have access to mussels throughout the year. I wish I were at the place when things get easier. LOL