Lost my temper with my cat :(

[bluemoon6]

Kutubria. You are a wonderful cat parent and are doing everything for Sakiz. I'm sure she will have a good birth and the kittens will be fine. It looks like she feels safe and cared for in her room. Ask others about the cheese. Not sure if that is good for her- but other people know better. Does Sakiz tolerate cheese? As in no diarrhea? 

 

[kutubira]

Thanks BlueMoon. I haven't noticed any change in her litter behavior between after and before the cheese. That's why I assumed the cheese is safe for her. And she enjoys eating it. 

I feel confident about her room and her environment. She's either glued to me or in her room, so I assume she feels safe in the room. But any improvements or suggestions are welcome. 

I also feel confident about providing her good care if she cannot give birth in natural ways. Like I said, I have two vets, one of which is ready any time. 

When I got Sakız, I did not know much about cats. I did not know that some of them can live longer than 20 years, I did not know they can get aggressive without any apparent provocation, or a kitten could love the exact center of your bed more than you do, or kittens could always find a way to wake you up if they feel like playing. To sum up, I did not know what I was doing and what I'm getting into.

I have to say, if I did not get the kind help I got here or if Sakız and I did not make things work so quickly, I'd probably throw her out. Because at the time, I had just learnt that they can live 20 years and all I could think that I could not let that cute monster hunt me from hiding spots for 20 years. 

I don't want the future owners of her kittens to feel the similar things. Because that would break both their and the kitten's heart and probably they would just throw them out. Of course I am going to observe how they spend time with the kittens when they visit, but I want to prepare them as much as I can. I'm wondering if I need anything else on this.

----

If we put her pregnancy aside, like I said many times before on this thread, her aggression is completely gone. I always try to react her non-aggressive actions so she doesn't need to get aggressive. This works great so far. I have some friends with cats, and only Sakız stays calm on someone's hands. 

She's getting more spontaneous and I am loving it. The thing that did not get her attention can be her time waster later. She tries to catch the mouse indicator on the computer, but not always. She tries to hunt my game character, but not always. She sometimes sits on my lap, sometimes lies down and sleeps and sometimes just passes through, making me aware that she's around. 

I don't know if I could ask anything else from her.

 

[kutubira]

She gave birth today. Thankfully, this is the only day I could leave the hospital early. 

But we have a problem and I already posted it to the related section: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/301349/sakiz-just-gave-birth-and-one-of-the-kittens-wont-feed

 

[wendalore]

Kutubira,

Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to post SO MUCH about your problematic cat.  It was VERY interesting to me b/c I adopted a 3 year old male cat in April, and he has a personality which is very concerned with having things be how he wants them and aggression.  I have no idea how long he stayed in his litter, but sometimes I feel afraid he will never want me to love him the way I feel it.  He was so scared when I first got him from the shelter, he didn't come out from under the furniture for several days.  (They said he had always lived in a family) Now this his HIS home—except for my room, which I decide when he can be in here or not AND a few pieces of furniture which he is not allowed on.  When you were posting your cat biting you, I felt so badly for you, as I get my feelings hurt when Jesse bites me.  Now he only bites me softly—and I give him the cold shoulder when he does it, sometimes for a couple of hours, it depends.  Often I am sure his biting has to do with wanting to play—I agreed with you and I felt certain about that at times when I was reading about her attacks.  I would have told you to make sure you give her lots of playtime with toys on wands before she asks to play.  Let her stalk and pounce and attack and chew and tear to her heart's content. Sometimes my cat likes to combine chewing and clawing a toy with clawing his small tunnel, which is made of sisal, lying on his back with his paws around the top of the tunnel AND the toy. He is excellent and making up games for himself to play with his fuzzy mice. I think it would be best if I would play with him on a regular schedule, then he would know when to expect it. But I don't live by a regular schedule!  Also, when they were suggesting that your kitty was in season, I thought OF COURSE!!  that's why she was biting you. You know how fierce cats get when they are sexual!  So I hope you did get her spayed.  My cat was neutered at the shelter just before I got him.  But he is VERY snooty sometimes about being touched. At first, I could pet him about four times. Now I can pet him about…four times!  and be sure I won't be attacked. He hasn't broken the skin in a long time, and, like you, I've been very careful to watch his mood. But OH, I would so like him to be a cat that  could just pet and love and not have to be aware all the time!  Like most cats, I think.  Well he is getting better, so I can just keep being gentle and hope!  Thanks again. I wonder how you are doing now!!!   BTW, John Bradshaw, whose book about cats I am reading now, says that cats prefer toys that they can destroy a little at a time. It means to the cat that maybe there WILL be a meal here, whereas if they can't affect the toy, then there may be NO meal for me, so forget it!!! 

Wendalore

 

[kutubira]

Hi @Wendalore

Thanks for reading my experience with Sakız. 

As you possibly have read, we're very good right now. Her aggression (which always felt deadly to me) has passed. Now if she bites, I know she wants something, and she knows that she's doing something she should not do. You can see the guilt in her eyes when she bites (even when she bites softly). She looks at me as if she's saying "I'd meow but you wouldn't understand. So I am biting, but not really biting, so maybe you give me what I want... And... Uh... Sorry for biting."

There are great recommendations in this thread. A great discussion went on. I did not only learn what to do, but also learnt what not to do. Most importantly, I learnt that her aggression towards me isn't necessarily caused by my actions. So I learnt to check what might be wrong around when she bit me. Like I said, now she does not have that deadly aggression and she learnt to meow when she has problems.

Now most of the cat owners I know are jealous of the relationship between Sakız and I. They think Sakız is in love with me and they ask me how I managed to do that. Well that was a result of mutual effort from I and Sakız. And the initiation of this effort was thanks to the good people here, who did not rush to judge me but tried to help Sakız and me first. I can't thank these people enough for this.

 

[wendalore]

Kutubira - Thanks so much for your reply! So glad you learned more things and found better ways!  My cat does the soft  biting, too. He learned not to bite hard by my reactions. Soft biting gets reactions, too.  As far as "guilt" and cats is concerned, I think about this.  Try considering that what the cat is feeling when she looks at you, is fear. She's checking you to see if she's gonna get hurt. She wants to do what she wants to do, but she knows there have been consequences, so she's checking it out.  Cat's don't have that kind of "conscience." I don't think, like people do. "Guilt" is a response more complex than cats have the brain power to feel.  And their "culture" that they evolved in does not use "guilt" as a social phenomenon. So I'm just suggesting when you look at her looking at you, imagine that she might be feeling fear, like "Am I going to get away with this?"  YOU may feel guilt, but not her.  It might change the way you treat her.  And I'm not saying she shouldn't feel fear.  She should.  I don't exactly agree with what some of the other cat owners said about the cat being so "little."  I know they were talking about not hitting her—because we need to find other ways to deal with our pets (and our children!)  But it is understandable to feel like hitting, because cats can cause us a LOT of damage. I can't even relax with my cat yet, b/c I don't know when he's going to decide he doesn't like what's going on, and scratch or bite me. Yes, he's softer now, but I still can't tolerate it, and I have to put him outside my door.  That's how he learns.  I noticed a while ago that you said you put your cat outside the door and let her in after a minute. That is not going to influence your cat not to do what you didn't like. To the cat, this is just a game.  How much can I get away with.  My cat was playing this game of shooting like a bullet past me, landing on my keyboard and winding up behind my computer (IMac)  I took him down, told him No twice. The third time he startled me so badly that I put him outside the door for a LONG time. THAT is what will teach him. He likes to be with me all the time, except when HE chooses not to be.  The day before yesterday, he kept wanting to play when I wanted to nap. That involves starting to approach my hand or my foot, or leg, first with paws with just a little claw.  I said NO twice. The third time, I put him outside my door for a good long while, whilst I napped.  So yesterday on my bed, he joined me in chatting and napping and he didn't try to approach my hands, feet, leg. or anything. I, similarly to you, learned how to do this disciplining without a lot of anger.  Most times it's gentle, so he gets the idea.  Then when I'm thinking, "he's not getting this!" I get a bit more forceful.

I listen to him when he meows, and I ask him what, what?  I try to give him what he wants, which is often food!  I wish you could just not let your cat bite you at all.  If there's a no tolerance to biting, then it can't get worse.  If you LET him bite, and it's okay if it's soft, then she could maybe sometimes slip and get harsh with you.

But hey, I'm an inexperienced cat owner, and I'm learning, too.  I never expected when I got a cat at the shelter, that I would not be able to pat him in the way people usually pat their cats.  I'd get so hurt that I'd think "I'm taking him BACK." but then love would find a way, and I'd keep learning.  I'd tell myself, God wants me to have THIS cat for some reason—to learn something. So I try to learn!  It's about acceptance, feelings… Sometimes I think they know what we are feeling. Feelings that we can't control. If that's partly what's wrong, then I need to be gentle with him and with me.

Well, time to get out there and feed my pussycat. Oh, and by the way, I don't think I could live with my cat in my space 24/7. When I want to sleep, I don't want to be woken up!  If I want to read, I want to read without someone lying down on my book!!  So he's never spent all night in my room since I got him, and that's what he expects.  It works.

Thanks again for responding, and I think the internet is a wonderful thing! when you can talk to others and learn so much from people you NEVER would have been able to meet otherwise!!  What country are you in? Just wondering!

 

[kutubira]

I'm from Turkey. 

I learnt to remember that they are cats and they do not do anything that's not in their nature when they do something I can't tolerate. And whenever I realize she's not doing what she's doing out of anger or aggression, I at least walk with her for a while and if I can determine what she wants, depending on what she did, I give her what she wants immediately or after a while. Suppose she wants to drink water from the tap and not her bowl. If she tries to explain this to me using her teeth and claws, she's not getting it for a while - she can drink it from her bowl if she is thirsty. If she just meowed and touched me or did something not hurtful, she gets it immediately. But whatever she does, I walk with her for a while. If she hurts too much, I put her out of the room and close the door for 15-20 minutes. 

I don't know if because Sakız and I get along very well or for another reason, I do not feel like hitting her or hitting something anymore. 

If your cat wants to be near you and he gets on stuff that you are using, just put him on your lap or near your feet. After a while, a habit might develop. For instance, every time Sakız stands between me and the monitor, I touch her with my finger, and she moves away. When she tried to bite my books, I just opened the book (She liked to put herself between pages and shred one of them), and she started to move away. Now she does not even touch my books. You might have to find a toy instead of your keyboard or books. So when you move him away from your stuff, you give him the toy so he forgets about your stuff. 

I think reading and learning about the nature of cats would lead a happier life for both the owner and the cat. Sure, they might be disciplined by force but then they would fear you and why would they come near you and sit on your lap again?

 

[wendalore]

Hi,

Thank you very much for your message!  Jesse and I are working things out, too, trying this way of doing things or that way of doing things.  This morning I felt that we have made good progress.  He had been trying to get me to "play" when I had been trying to nap late morning.  He would do that by biting a part of me that was "sticking out."  A toe, a thumb, an elbow… my hand… and as soon as he would use his teeth or claws, I would put him outside the door.  Not with loud anger, just silence, and just doing it.  This morning, I was lying on my bed at the usual time and he was walking around, or lying down near me or touching me, but no biting or clawing at all.  So after had had my rest and I felt like getting up, I asked him, "Do you want to PLAY????"  and we went off and we played!  This shows him that he won't get playing when he bites or scratches—he will get it if he doesn't!  Also, I built up a couple of little barriers beside my computer, so he can't shoot behind there (like a speeding bullet!!)  And when he would sit beside me on the chair and put his paw on the table or the keyboard, I would talk to him about it, — take his paw off, etc. Jesse generally won't settle down where I put him. He refuses to sit in my lap at all, anyway.  I feel (sense)  his sense of self— he, wanting to have things the way he wants them.   But I can't always figure out what that is!

I agree with you 100% about considering what a cat IS I've read about 5 books about cats and cat behavior, and I'll pick them up and read them whenever I'm wondering about something about his behavior or health or feelings. Also, I come online to sites like this and read and/or ask.  Before I started taking care of my daughter's cats last year, I knew very little about cats, and I wasn't that interested, either.  But now, loving a cat, I want to take the best care of mine that I can.  Beside, I've always been interested in people psychology, so why not cat psychology?!!

My two most baffling areas with my cat are food and petting/love.  I have one of those cats that only enjoys a certain kind of food for awhile, and then he stops eating it.  And I am mystified about how much he likes to be petted, and how to know when to stop, or keep going.  I watch the tail and body movements etc. but I still can't tell.  Maybe he's let me pat him a lot more if I tried.  But maybe he wouldn't! I'd rather be safe than sorry, so I stop and watch and start again,  The problem for me is that I can't "get into" the enjoyment of the patting because I have to keep watching—and I can't tell when I watch, anyway.  I'm pretty sure he's getting more used to being touched. When I started brushing him, that seemed to allow him to enjoy being touched. 

Thank you for telling me that you are from Turkey.  I see that you say that your cat's name is Turkish, but I didn't put two and two together!  I have read about Van cats, that they like to swim!  Does yours like to swim? Of course he's only half van. Unless the stray is a Van, too!

I just read your post about Sakiz being pregnant. That's great that you have people interested in the kittens!!    I was curious about something you wrote.

"I told them that I won't be giving the kittens away for at least 3 months and they can't pet them for the first one or two months."  I'm not sure why they can't pet them for the first one or two months.  I just read that if kittens DON'T get handled by humans early, they lose the ability to bond with people.  So it's very important that somebody handle them, and I should think that the person who is going to be the owner would want to bond as soon as possible.  But maybe not during the FIRST month. I think it has to be in the first 3 months. 

But anyway, you must have a good reason for whatever you decide. Right now I don't feel well, but I'll write back after I  look in that cat book and see what it says about kittens. And bonding with humans. 

Thanks again!  I think you sound wonderfully sensitive to her about what she needs during her pregnancy! That made me feel very glad!

W.

 

[kutubira]

I don't let them pet the kittens because none of them have experience with even older cats. They look cute and make cute sounds so I thought maybe they torture them a little to make them make sounds. I'm just worried that they won't handle them properly. On the other hand, I and two of my friends who owns/owned cats can pet them. They might squeeze them, pet them harder than they should etc. I could not take that risk. But you're right, and I'm planning to expose the kittens to their prospective owners in the middle of the second month, if they look healthy enough.

My cat hates water. One time, she was on my arms and I was passing near a basin full of water. She escaped out of my hands and fell into the water. She immediately jumped back on me. Not even a second later. 

 

[ellieandwinnie]

My cat gets naughty and tries and does bite. I find being stern and saying no while not reacting works best. When he stays away I IMMEDIATELY say "Good boy!!" and reward him with a treat. He "gets" it, he really does. The only thing that works on my cat --a rescued semi feral--is positive reinforcement. Sometimes I pretend to cry when he bites me. Which sometimes works too.

I'm raising semi feral litter mates (6.5 weeks old now) and this is how I train her not to bite me as well. I try not to be negative, but I try to squeal like her sister would if biting too hard during play and removing my hand, toes, etc. I'm hoping she gets it! (Although secretly I think her little nibbles are adorable)

I got to give it to the community,you people helped me and Sakız a lot. That's why we are friends again now. Instead of getting angry, you people tried to help me, that was something I thought I wouldn't do for a person who hurt his pet, until I did it myself. Although our situation here doesn't have any effect on you and you could just walk away and trying to help doesn't cost you anything more than some time, you can't imagine how appreciated your help is. Thank you.  

About spaying, after reading the article, my main concern is now gone. If she does not care about being mother as much as I thought, then I might feel better about spaying her.
Although having cute tiny Sakızes around would be definitely fun, I'm not type of person who would stay with more than 3 cats. That would mean I'd have to give kittens away. That's a big problem. The guy I took Sakız from felt the need to get to know me better before he gave her away. Also my friend who has the sibling of Sakız told me that the owners have harder time than the mother when the kittens leave the home. 
I think I'll have the surgery done as soon as I become financially more secure. But that's still not decided.

I will admit, I was very angry at you upon reading your initial post. BUT, it takes guts to admit you did something like that to a community of cat lovers. I can see that you truly wanted a solution for you and your kitten so something like that never happens again.

 

[kutubira]

I will admit, I was very angry at you upon reading your initial post. BUT, it takes guts to admit you did something like that to a community of cat lovers. I can see that you truly wanted a solution for you and your kitten so something like that never happens again.

I wrote this before in this thread, and here it is again: If I read a story like mine, I'd probably be so angry at the person who did that. I'm guessing I'd refuse to help him.

Also, blaming the person wtihout helping or trying to understand him first has been the trend for a while. And I would understand people if they just wrote anger posts and leave me alone. What's wonderful is that, even if they were angry, they tried to help me (well, they might have tried to help Sakız more than me lol). Thanks to the community's endless help, I found the strength to look for solutions. 

I'm guessing something like this will not happen again. It was the first and the last time. Because I learnt to approach her aggressiveness, I learnt how to deal with it if I can't solve the anger, and Sakız has been a dear for a long time now.

 

[ellieandwinnie]

I wrote this before in this thread, and here it is again: If I read a story like mine, I'd probably be so angry at the person who did that. I'm guessing I'd refuse to help him.
Also, blaming the person wtihout helping or trying to understand him first has been the trend for a while. And I would understand people if they just wrote anger posts and leave me alone. What's wonderful is that, even if they were angry, they tried to help me (well, they might have tried to help Sakız more than me lol). Thanks to the community's endless help, I found the strength to look for solutions. 

I'm guessing something like this will not happen again. It was the first and the last time. Because I learnt to approach her aggressiveness, I learnt how to deal with it if I can't solve the anger, and Sakız has been a dear for a long time now.

I'm happy the two of you were able to learn and grow together! Sakiz (sorry about the i, I'm not actually sure what that letter is) really seems to adore you from the looks of your pictures

 

[tzak]

I know how you feel. Guilty right  ?I too grabbed my cat as i thought she **** on the floor. She was sleeping and I noted a pile on my bedroom floor so I grabbed her out of sleep rubbed her face in it and smacked her and throw her in her spotless litter box. I clean in out religiously. As I keep my house spotless and have never owned a cat because they stink.  She was abandnoned by previous tenant.  Had her 8 years now.  Anyway I went to clean it up and noted it was vomit.  I feel terrible and grabbed her and petted her,, but she is afraid of me now.  I feel terrible..  I know I didnt do physical harm and I wasnt real agressive. I just hate to punis h without a valid reason.  Saying sorry and petting her doesnt make me feel better.

 

[margd]

I know how you feel. Guilty right  ?I too grabbed my cat as i thought she **** on the floor. She was sleeping and I noted a pile on my bedroom floor so I grabbed her out of sleep rubbed her face in it and smacked her and throw her in her spotless litter box. I clean in out religiously. As I keep my house spotless and have never owned a cat because they stink.  She was abandnoned by previous tenant.  Had her 8 years now.  Anyway I went to clean it up and noted it was vomit.  I feel terrible and grabbed her and petted her,, but she is afraid of me now.  I feel terrible..  I know I didnt do physical harm and I wasnt real agressive. I just hate to punis h without a valid reason.  Saying sorry and petting her doesnt make me feel better.

I know you feel pretty terrible right now and I certainly don't want to add to that, but wanted to let you know that punishments don't really work with cats. Punishing a cat just makes it scared of you. Also the nose in the poop trick might work with dogs but cats really have no idea why you're doing this to them. Anyway, you've had your girl for 8 years so hopefully she will forgive you soon! And thank you for taking this poor girl in when she was abandoned. [emoji]128149[/emoji]