Litterbox Issue - What To Try Next?

~Maxx

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Hello everyone. Thank you for joining yet another litterbox issue thread. I've read many on these over the last several months. They're all so situational, I'm just hoping I can get a nudge in the right direction here. I'll try to be somewhat brief. But you know how these things go. First a bit on our main characters...

Gryffon is our resident cat. He's 12 years old, neutered, 100% indoors, and has been on insulin for diabetes for the last several years. We adopted him as a kitten, along with his brother, who he was very close with. About 5 years ago his brother escaped through the front door (not for the first time) and did not return home.

Digit is our new addition. We adopted her 5 months ago. She is 15 years old, spayed, and came from our local no kill shelter where she had lived for 11 (yes ELEVEN) years. She has been on prescription food for urinary issues since she came to the shelter, and also takes Cosequin and RenalK once a day. I was told that there were never any litterbox issues with her at the shelter, but that she was once adopted out and was returned with such complaints. They were suspicious that the owners had changed her diet due to the cost of the prescription.

So we spent the first two months integrating Digit slowly and "by the book" from our craft room into the rest of the basement, while carefully introducing her to Gryffon until they both had free, unsupervised reign of the basement. Once full integration was achieved I started noticing daily puddles next to Digit's litterbox, which quickly began to expand to the next room, and became more frequent. I decided to restrict both cats to the south half of the basement where there was no carpet, and was quickly able to discern that Digit was the culprit. Since then I have tried every litter and attractant on the planet, 3 different sizes and shapes of boxes, and every location I can think of. My last effort included a month-long trial of the controversial "cage" method using a 4'x4'x4' dog kennel. I have expanded from 3 boxes to 5, and just added two additional boxes with no litter in them. I have seen her use all of the litter boxes at one point or another. I have also seen her pee in front of a perfectly clean box. Since I have relegated them to the south half of the basement she is only choosing to pee on the floor in one general spot (which I have been cleaning diligently with Nature's Miracle - but have also tried with vinegar and baking soda, and hydrogen peroxide). In front of the box on the east wall seems to be where she wants the bathroom to be. I tried putting two more boxes with litter there, but she still wet the floor (stools have been all in the boxes so far). Then I took out the two new boxes and replaced them with two empty storage totes. Nothing in the bottoms. She opted to pee in both of those while I was at work today. I brought home some puppy pads, and placed one into ONE of the empty containers. She has chosen the pad so far. I think this is progress. But I still can't figure out what she's unhappy about.

I'm torn between two roads for my next step... I have seen the "cage" method work. So maybe she just needs a bit more time behind bars to retrain her? I worry about what that would do to her relationship with Gryffon though. Not to mention her overall mental state. The other idea I had was to try building a kennel of sorts that has a magnet or chip ID entry. Perhaps she would feel better if Gryffon had no access whatsoever to "her" litterbox?
Once again I'm really on the fence with this and could use a hint or opinion. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Thanks!
 

rubysmama

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Hello and welcome to TCS. Sorry it's litter box issues that brought you here, but thank you for adopting dear little Digit. :petcat:I can't imagine a poor cat spending 11 years at a cat shelter. No wonder she has "issues" living in a home. :sigh:

Which makes me wonder if you are onto something with the idea of keeping her litter box in a kennel that Gryffon can't get into. It's worth a shot, especially since she's spent most of her life peeing in a litter box in a cage. Who knows, poor girl might also actually enjoy taking refuge in a kennel.
 

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I agree with your assessment of things, both of you :redheartpump:
I was wondering, was her environment at the shelter at all open, with out cages?
Have you tried any calming products, along with softly played music?
I'm envisioning a usually busy, even chaotic at times environment where now she has one other cat, and thus relatively speaking, peace and quiet and she's not sure what to do with that.
I think given time and patience, bless your heart!, she'll work things out :)
 
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Jem

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One of our cats only uses a pee pad lined litter box, He developed litter avoidance that we've NEVER been able to break due to years or recurring struvite crystals. But in our case he does not pee elsewhere, so we figure pee pads are better than the floor.
I think it's a possibility that she is just so used to being in her own little cage, where she only ever had the option to pee in her litter box. She may be trying to assert herself in or claim her new HUGE home. Maybe you could try to give her as many things to spread her scent on, that does not require pee, like scratching posts, blankets, cat trees, beds, scratch pads for the face that you attach to corners of walls..etc.
Do you play with her and encourage her to hang out in high places? Her confidence might be very low. She's never had territory before, I mean, even her cage at the shelter probably smelled like every other animal in there. The poor thing :(. I want to cry. I'm so glad you found her. Please don't lose faith, I'm sure she'll come around.
 
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~Maxx

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Thank you all so much for your encouragement and quick replies! I'll try to provide a bit more background without quoting each of you. I'm really trying to keep things brief (NOT my strong suit!) so people will actually be able to read these without feeling the need to make a bowl of popcorn and set an evening aside :)

The shelter Digit was in is (I believe) a very well run operation. They are set up in what used to be an office building. Each office is a cat room. There are no cages save for a few in the medical section and some in one room in the regular wing for cats who need to be confined for a short time due to anxiety upon arrival. Their rooms all have screen doors with springs to keep them closed, windows looking into the main hall, and many have windows looking outdoors as well. They are of varying sizes, and range in occupancy from one to maybe as many as 5 or 6 cats. Each room has every amenity, and every helpful person there can give you a full history of each cat from memory. I was personally impressed, though I had nothing to compare it to. They also have a network of fosters throughout the area and will not take in new cats if they feel they are at capacity. We visited Digit a number of times before we adopted and took her home. She did have a room mate whom she "tolerated", and who was adopted several days before we took Digit home. I really feel that they have been genuine and honest with me about Digits history. In fact, when I expressed concern about the cost of her prescription food, they immediately offered to provide it free of charge if we were willing to adopt her. After a bit of negotiating we agreed that they could provide me her food at half of their cost. They were REALLY intent on sending her home with us when we showed interest :) The head of operations has also been in frequent contact with me via email since we brought her home. She has been helpful and encouraging, but (I think) at a bit of a loss as far as solutions go. She has expressed frequent and glowing praise for my efforts in this regard. Which has been encouraging - although she obviously (and understandably) has ulterior motives :)

Her current lodgings consist of my workshop/utility room, and our laundry room which measure in total 11' wide by maybe 30' or more in length. There are 3 windows which are all accessible via shelves and perches. I have provided scratching posts, cardboard scratching steps, various other horizontal and vertical scratching surfaces, 4 or 5 high perches, a number of additional surfaces to hang out on and hide in, several types of brushes attached in various places for them to rub against, a couple of different puzzle feeders which I make use of and rotate out several times a week, a plethora of toys in rotation, a TV that can loop some YouTube videos for cats which I run frequently. There are also 3 water fountains, and I give them a dish of watered down chicken broth every other night. Honestly anything I could think of to enrich their environment. My daughters (5 and 8 years old) play with them nearly every day, my wife hangs out with them during their mid-day meal, and I spend time with them every evening. We do let them both out for short ventures on the other half of the basement when Digit can be supervised, and Gryffon gets to come upstairs on a fairly regular basis. They seem content. Gryffon will cry at night once in a while. But he has always been on and off with that sort of behavior. They are on a strict 3-meal-a-day schedule, and I track their portions carefully and monitor their weight once a week. Litter boxes are scooped twice a day, and are on a rotation that sees them each cleaned and filled with 1 1/2" of fresh litter every 3 weeks. The litter level is maintained throughout that period. I have tried increasing to 2" and decreasing to 1" with no change in Digits behavior (or Gryffon's for that matter).

Wow. This has become rather lengthy. I apologize.

I'm going to put some more thought into the logistics of this "secure litterbox". Does anyone have any recommendations for a means of entry? I see that there are both RFID and magnetic pet doors available. Digit does have a microchip. Should I plan for two doors? Or would one be enough?

Thanks again for all the help. I know you folks deal with these things often, and I appreciate your time!
 

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Well, I don't feel like crying as much now that you've described the shelter. That seems like a pretty good situation....considering the poor thing was there for so long.

I do wonder though if your thought about keeping her "caged" for a bit longer would help her. Although, maybe simply giving her, her own room that Gryffon doesn't have access to at all, would help to give her comfort as she continues to adjust to her new home. I would think that doing a re-introduction again when she's back to using a litter box would not be too difficult as they do know each other's scents at this point. And you could still continue to bring them out and about one at a time, they would continue to smell each other doing this as well.

How and where was her litter set up in her room at the shelter? If you can set her up in her own room at your house in the same layout as the shelter, IDK, It might give her some "sameness" of some sorts???? Bit of a long shot but you never know.
:dunno:
When it comes to a secure litter box that is only her own, I don't know what to suggest, but I do hope someone else has some input because I think that would help also.

I look forward to more updates:popcorn: JK! ;)
 

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Hi! No worries about long posts, every bit of info can help.

Wow, are your cats lucky to have you!! I was thinking I'd like to become a cat and hang out with your two LOL

I think I like Jem Jem 's advice regarding giving digit her own space with a reintroduction later...it could be that full access by both cats was just a little too soon? I'm not sure about that being an issue now, though...

Do you know what's happening on the outside of that basement wall she's seeming to favor? Is there anything that other critters are doing, feral/stray cats, raccoons, etc? Digit can detect them even if you don't see them...that might also explain Gryffon's crying at night, if I'm right.

Were you the first people to live in this house? Would there have been other pets from previous owners that used that area? She would be able to still smell that. You could pick up a blacklight, it will show urine stains. Be sure to check customer reviews, some are better than others.

In any case I honestly don't think she needs more cage time or the security litter box, due to her using the tote boxes.

What if you leave the tote boxes as you had them and she used them, and give her that half of the basement and give Gryffon the other half and upstairs. See how that goes, then if she misses again try the security box. If you Google diy cat litter boxes, this might give you ideas.

Has your own vet seen Digit?

C'mon Digit baby, you can do it!!!
 
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~Maxx

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...maybe simply giving her, her own room that Gryffon doesn't have access to at all, would help to give her comfort as she continues to adjust to her new home. I would think that doing a re-introduction again when she's back to using a litter box would not be too difficult...
You know... This is why I wanted to consult with people. I never think of going backward when trying to problem-solve! This seems like a more worthy endeavor before I invest time and money into another project.

Do you know what's happening on the outside of that basement wall she's seeming to favor? Is there anything that other critters are doing, feral/stray cats, raccoons, etc? Digit can detect them even if you don't see them...that might also explain Gryffon's crying at night, if I'm right.

Were you the first people to live in this house? Would there have been other pets from previous owners that used that area? She would be able to still smell that. You could pick up a blacklight, it will show urine stains.
The wall she's favoring is an interior wall actually, adjoining the laundry room. She has never peed on the floor on the other side of it. There is currently a litter box there, but that was just put in place a couple of weeks ago after Digit was released from solitary. I feed them separately (obviously), so we've been feeding Gryffon in the laundry room. Prior to that there was literally nothing there. It's kind of an odd little nook where we intend to relocate our chest freezer as soon as my wife's preoccupied husband gets around to installing an electrical outlet :) The neighbors on either side of us both have dogs. But we all have fences around our back yards, and the closest any of them could get would be about 8-10 feet from the back corner of the house. I have seen a possum in the yard on occasion. Though it always seems to just pass through on it's way to wherever.

You make a good point about the prior owners. They had two dogs, and lived here for nearly 20 years. I know the main and upper levels were repainted, and re-carpeted, and the wood floors were all refinished before the house went up for sale. And while it was immaculately clean when we moved in, nothing seemed to have been done to update the basement in quite some time. The house was built in the 60's, so who knows what's gone on there. I have a black light, but I don't think it's a very good one. It never has shown me anything in the way of urine as a matter of fact. I'll definitely do some shopping for a good one. There's a spot near my office area somewhere in the basement that I cannot find. So that may help resolve that.

Thanks again, all of you! I'm going to come up with a tentative plan tonight and get things going this week. I'll keep you all informed!
 
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~Maxx

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I keep forgetting to mention, by the way... I do have feliway diffusers running. Both the regular and the multi cat. And Digit is wearing a calming collar. I plugged them in three days before we brought Digit home, and have replaced them as needed since. I'm considering letting them expire though just to see what happens. though this may not be the best time.
 

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You know, I have read several times that feliway can cause more problems than it solves, from a territorial basis, so I'm with you on the thought of just letting the diffusers expire...
 
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~Maxx

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Just watched Digit walk right through BOTH of her pee pad lined boxes (both unused) and urinate in a used litterbox that had not been scooped since 7:30 this morning. This is madness.
 

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LOL, I don't mean to laugh, but that's a cat for you.
However on the bright side (I hope since this post of mine is quite a lot of time later so I'm hoping there IS a bright side and she didn't use the floor again!) she's at least using a box. That counts a LOT!!
 
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~Maxx

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Okay... I've had a few days to let this sink in now. I was really hoping not to separate these two because I've made so much progress lately in the direction of actually getting them to befriend each other. We've gone from Digit occasionally hissing at Gryffon, to almost nonexistent hissing. And I've actually found them napping within a couple feet of each other several times the last few days. I hate the idea of losing ground here, but I can't be selfish. And I think I'll be able to learn more about Digit's bathroom idiosyncrasies this way. So I'm going to restrict Digit to my workshop area, and close off the laundry room and craft room for Gryffon. I'll let Gryffon out into the main part of the basement after a few days or a week. Fortunately he's always been very tolerant of change :)

Digit has been using the litter boxes and the empty boxes with puppy pads in them since the weekend. Not a single mess on the floor. So I'm thinking I should change things as little as possible for now. If I remove one of the two litter boxes from the other side of the room that will give me an extra for Gryffon when I let him back into the main basement area (and there is already a box in the laundry room - so he'll have two). I'll observe Digit for a few days and see what she's really up to at potty time without Gryffon's influence. Then do a bit of experimenting from there. She's going to lose a cat tree too. But Gryffon deserves one. I think he's going to be a little disappointed about being cut off from his moody roomie.

from here I'm kind of shooting in the dark. So if anyone has any tips, tricks, or suggestions, feel free to chime in! Thanks!
 

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O messes on the floor is huge!!
I hate to say this after you've come to your hardwon conclusion, but what if you don't change anything for another week or more.

To me it's as though there's been a balance achieved, and why not let them become even more comfortable with it?
 
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O messes on the floor is huge!!
I hate to say this after you've come to your hardwon conclusion, but what if you don't change anything for another week or more.

To me it's as though there's been a balance achieved, and why not let them become even more comfortable with it?
Well... Here's the thing... The area of the floor she was urinating on is now completely covered by four litter boxes (two with litter and two with puppy pads). So I'm not sure that she's actually chosen to use the boxes. She's still going in the same spot after all. There just happens to be a tray there now. If you believe it would be worth it to work the problem from where I'm at, I'm certainly not opposed! I had thought about moving one of the puppy pad trays to the other corner, and maybe even removing one of the litter filled boxes. It seems like I need to do some experimenting here. I'll never be able to
 
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Well... Here's the thing... The area of the floor she was urinating on is now completely covered by four litter boxes (two with litter and two with puppy pads). So I'm not sure that she's actually chosen to use the boxes. She's still going in the same spot after all. There just happens to be a tray there now. If you believe it would be worth it to work the problem from where I'm at, I'm certainly not opposed! I had thought about moving one of the puppy pad trays to the other corner, and maybe even removing one of the litter filled boxes. It seems like I need to do some experimenting here. I'll never be able to
(Not sure how that posted before I was finished!)

Ahem... As I was saying... I can't trust her anywhere else until I figure this out. All of this advice is very much appreciated! Thank you!
 

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I see, gotcha.
I'm sorry I disappeared on you last night!

You've probably done this already, but maybe move one of the puppy pad boxes just a little bit, if possible, not all the way to the corner yet. Then if she still doesn't miss, move that box a little more.

This is a situation of baby steps, I think.
Sort of a slow incremental training for her to keep using it/them, just gradually elsewhere to the point you can see she's going to be ok.
I'm so keeping my fingers crossed for you!!

If this doesn't work, then definitely go with your initial thinking of separation. By the way, I think the two cats will be ok with each other. Granted every cat is different but they'll still be able to smell/hear each other--seeing each other would be good too. --a couple of stacked baby gates in an entry?
You also could do blanket swapping, where each cat sleeps in a blanket and then the two blankets are swapped so that each cats' scent remains up close and personal for the other cat.
 
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I see, gotcha.
I'm sorry I disappeared on you last night!

You've probably done this already, but maybe move one of the puppy pad boxes just a little bit, if possible, not all the way to the corner yet. Then if she still doesn't miss, move that box a little more.
Don't worry about it! I'm a bit of a night owl anyway :)

I did remove one of the two litter filled boxes from that corner last night, and slid one of the pee pad trays over a bit. No messes so far. I'll give this a day or two and calculate my next move!
 

rubysmama

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I haven't been here much this week, so just catching up on this thread now. No accidents on the floor is good. Seems like you've figured something out. Fingers crossed it keeps up. :crossfingers:
 
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