Litter mates had encounter with outside cat, now hate each other

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frenetic mango

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Also, we were scheduled to do one mow session tonight, should we still do it?
 

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It is good, and the whole thing sounds good, actually. ... The cardboard is just to keep you safe and them calm if necessary :)
 
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frenetic mango

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If you're game to do it, I'd give it a try, and I think you'll be ok :)
We did it, everything was fine. Miss hissy pants got up from her bowl to head to the gate again but I have a nice pad that makes a good wall. No hissing no fluffing, just have to be vigilant about keeping them at a distance.
 
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frenetic mango

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Poor babies, I think they miss each other. They both gravitate toward the door or the gate, whatever is separating them, even if there's somebody in the room to play/cuddle with. I'm in the bedroom with one and the other is outside mewing a sad little quiet mew. Of course she's might also just miss mom lol. Hopefully we get this all fixed really soon.
 

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F frenetic mango Sisters or not, a stressful, traumatic behavioral encounter led to a conditioned response to each other. Avoidance and Hiding are initial responses to cat stressors. Confrontation and aggression are last resorts for cats. Sig and Rho's behavioral response is a normal, domesticated cat response to such an invasive, threatening stressor as the stray aggressive cat. Cats are the only solitary predator we've turned domesticated pet in 10,000 years, and have specific self preservation behaviors that are deeply instinctual. Despite the short duration of the attack, its effects are enduring and will take routine, positive reinforcement, and behavioral conditioning to overcome.

Different veterinarians prefer different behavior modifying, anxiolytic medication for different stressors or behavior problems. AAFP's guideline is https://catvets.com/public/PDFs/PracticeGuidelines/FelineBehaviorGLS.pdf Page 31 and 32 are a table of anxiolytic oral medication for cats utilized by AAFP vets. Sertraline, fluoxetine, and paroxetine are feline practitioners' preference for aggression and social anxiety, helping victims build confidence and aggressors reduce territorial anxiety/confrontation.

Your girls' territory was threatened, their routine and resources disrupted, and their normal socialization was insufficient to maintain their harmonious environment when a territorial aggressive stranger cat invaded their space. Ways to condition them to move beyond the trauma, anxiety, and fear, enriching their environment and reassuring them of their resources, expectations, safety, and harmony are in this AAFP environmental needs of cats article: SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Feliway Multicat diffusers are game changers for cat aggression, social anxiety, and social aggression. Per Ceva Pharmaceutical:
"Feliway MultiCat pheromone is different than Feliway® products that have been sold for years. The original Feliway contains a synthetic copy of a facial pheromone that cats use for marking their territory and comforting themselves. Feliway MultiCat pheromone is a synthetic copy of the pheromone produced by a mother cat during lactation. This appeasing pheromone reassures kittens and helps them bond with the mother.

“During the past 20 years Ceva has developed expertise in animal behavior, and more precisely in pheromones. We expect the launch of Feliway MultiCat pheromone to extend our market leadership in this area,” said Dr. Karen Padgett, Chief Operating Officer, Ceva Animal Health Companion Animal Business Unit. “Within one week, Feliway MultiCat pheromone users noticed a reduction in conflict behaviors, even in households where conflict had been occurring for several years. After one month of continuous use, 84 percent of pet owners report a significant improvement in their cats’ ability to get along.”
Different types of pheromones signal different information to a cat.

“The original form of Feliway does help manage stress in homes with multiple cats by signaling to the cat, ‘this is my space I feel safe.’ But the pheromone contained in Feliway Multicat addresses the specific need to signal calm in the cat’s social group,” said Dr. Valarie V. Tynes, DVM, Dipl. ACVB, Veterinary Services Specialist at Ceva. “By nature, many adult cats are solitary, independent animals. Using MultiCat can help them to feel more comfortable about sharing the home with other cats.”

Social tension between cats may impair the cat’s day to day welfare. Conflict between cats can begin when a new cat is introduced into the home or previously amicable relationships may change when an event happens that causes one or more cats to become distressed. The cats may have an aggressive encounter and then fail to mend their relationship. Signs of social tension and conflict between familiar cats may be obvious or quite subtle. Overt aggression may include hissing, growling, screaming, hissing, swatting, or chasing . Passive or avoidant behaviors are common too including hiding, fleeing or blocking."

Each diffuser lasts 30 days, treats up to 700ft, and refills are economically affordable. The Classic Feliway is available in a spray that can be applied to bedding, towels, common area's door frame, cat tower, or other resources that cats share to help reassure security and safety are back.

Regarding the stray aggressive, urine-spraying cat, California, and many states, have local animal services officers and groups from which you lease box traps aka Hav-a-Heart traps, and either deliver to your local animal service office, cat welfare group, or arrange to have the officer to pick up occupied trap. Check on your area's local laws regarding setting traps on your property, as some city ordinances do not allow citizens to use said traps, only city officials licensed to do so. You can purchase your own to use, from Lowe's, TSC, or amazon, ensuring you get one Even if he does belong to a neighbor, his behavior is detrimental to your cats, yourself, and himself, as he will or has already been injured during such aggressive encounters. You or your partner could have been injured in the midst of his attack with your girls. Cat bites and scratches can become deeply infected and compromise a hand's range of motion, or cause loss of a digit completely if a joint is punctured. Your local animal control service will respond to this as not merely a nuisance, but a public safety issue. Animal services will ensure he's vaccinated, altered, scan for microchip, locate his owner and enforce better owner management of him, or find him a new home/owner. It will help him, and help your family, all in one swoop, to involve animal control services. We hope they respond quickly to removing this cat from your area. Hope the girls are slowly but surely improving.

Toe beans, especially patchy rainbow ones, to lift your spirits. Reba appears to commiserate with you.
Lil Bub, Ehlers Danlos syndrome kitty therapy.
$50-60, 6-7ft cat trees I bought from amazon, chewy, etc to meet your cats' environmental needs.
Prince therapy.
Yoda therapy.
 

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Tuxedokittylove

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Hi all. Just got the trauma sisters back from the vet. They are physically healthy at least. He prescribed some gabapentin to keep the house calm, told me to keep them separated another 24 hours before trying to reintroduce them again. I bought some natures miracle and pretty much doused the house in it. I don't smell anymore pee, hopefully they don't either. I'm really afraid to do the next reintroducing step tomorrow, but hopefully the drugs will help. Should I put them in their carriers to do it? Face them toward each other?
when our cats had a fight 5 months ago (recently happened again, that’s why I found myself here lol, redirected aggression is a real common thing apparently) we reintroduced them as if they ever never met. We fed them on both sides of it and cracked the door little by little each time. My one cat is picky when it comes to food so we brushed me sometimes too because that’s her holy grail. Essentially have positive reinforcement by giving them food or treats and praises when they have positive interactions. Here’s a link that really helped us. What To Do After a Catfight - Jackson Galaxy
 

Tuxedokittylove

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when our cats had a fight 5 months ago (recently happened again, that’s why I found myself here lol, redirected aggression is a real common thing apparently) we reintroduced them as if they ever never met. We fed them on both sides of it and cracked the door little by little each time. My one cat is picky when it comes to food so we brushed me sometimes too because that’s her holy grail. Essentially have positive reinforcement by giving them food or treats and praises when they have positive interactions. Here’s a link that really helped us. What To Do After a Catfight - Jackson Galaxy
Oops sorry I didn’t realize that was so long ago you made that post, so ignore that but I’m glad to hear some progress has been made! Slow and steady wins the race!
 
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frenetic mango

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Oops sorry I didn’t realize that was so long ago you made that post, so ignore that but I’m glad to hear some progress has been made! Slow and steady wins the race!
Thanks. It's been really hard, there is still some hissing and one of them is sick at the moment. I have been working on this with my partner, but I think we are breaking up and now I have to figure out where I'm going to live with two fighting cats and how I'm going to keep this up by myself. Would a move be negative because it's stressful, or positive because it gets them away from the site of the fight? Can this be done with one person?
 
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frenetic mango

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Oops sorry I didn’t realize that was so long ago you made that post, so ignore that but I’m glad to hear some progress has been made! Slow and steady wins the race!
How long did it take to get your cats back together?
 
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frenetic mango

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F frenetic mango Sisters or not, a stressful, traumatic behavioral encounter led to a conditioned response to each other. Avoidance and Hiding are initial responses to cat stressors. Confrontation and aggression are last resorts for cats. Sig and Rho's behavioral response is a normal, domesticated cat response to such an invasive, threatening stressor as the stray aggressive cat. Cats are the only solitary predator we've turned domesticated pet in 10,000 years, and have specific self preservation behaviors that are deeply instinctual. Despite the short duration of the attack, its effects are enduring and will take routine, positive reinforcement, and behavioral conditioning to overcome.

Different veterinarians prefer different behavior modifying, anxiolytic medication for different stressors or behavior problems. AAFP's guideline is https://catvets.com/public/PDFs/PracticeGuidelines/FelineBehaviorGLS.pdf Page 31 and 32 are a table of anxiolytic oral medication for cats utilized by AAFP vets. Sertraline, fluoxetine, and paroxetine are feline practitioners' preference for aggression and social anxiety, helping victims build confidence and aggressors reduce territorial anxiety/confrontation.

Your girls' territory was threatened, their routine and resources disrupted, and their normal socialization was insufficient to maintain their harmonious environment when a territorial aggressive stranger cat invaded their space. Ways to condition them to move beyond the trauma, anxiety, and fear, enriching their environment and reassuring them of their resources, expectations, safety, and harmony are in this AAFP environmental needs of cats article: SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Feliway Multicat diffusers are game changers for cat aggression, social anxiety, and social aggression. Per Ceva Pharmaceutical:
"Feliway MultiCat pheromone is different than Feliway® products that have been sold for years. The original Feliway contains a synthetic copy of a facial pheromone that cats use for marking their territory and comforting themselves. Feliway MultiCat pheromone is a synthetic copy of the pheromone produced by a mother cat during lactation. This appeasing pheromone reassures kittens and helps them bond with the mother.

“During the past 20 years Ceva has developed expertise in animal behavior, and more precisely in pheromones. We expect the launch of Feliway MultiCat pheromone to extend our market leadership in this area,” said Dr. Karen Padgett, Chief Operating Officer, Ceva Animal Health Companion Animal Business Unit. “Within one week, Feliway MultiCat pheromone users noticed a reduction in conflict behaviors, even in households where conflict had been occurring for several years. After one month of continuous use, 84 percent of pet owners report a significant improvement in their cats’ ability to get along.”
Different types of pheromones signal different information to a cat.

“The original form of Feliway does help manage stress in homes with multiple cats by signaling to the cat, ‘this is my space I feel safe.’ But the pheromone contained in Feliway Multicat addresses the specific need to signal calm in the cat’s social group,” said Dr. Valarie V. Tynes, DVM, Dipl. ACVB, Veterinary Services Specialist at Ceva. “By nature, many adult cats are solitary, independent animals. Using MultiCat can help them to feel more comfortable about sharing the home with other cats.”

Social tension between cats may impair the cat’s day to day welfare. Conflict between cats can begin when a new cat is introduced into the home or previously amicable relationships may change when an event happens that causes one or more cats to become distressed. The cats may have an aggressive encounter and then fail to mend their relationship. Signs of social tension and conflict between familiar cats may be obvious or quite subtle. Overt aggression may include hissing, growling, screaming, hissing, swatting, or chasing . Passive or avoidant behaviors are common too including hiding, fleeing or blocking."

Each diffuser lasts 30 days, treats up to 700ft, and refills are economically affordable. The Classic Feliway is available in a spray that can be applied to bedding, towels, common area's door frame, cat tower, or other resources that cats share to help reassure security and safety are back.

Regarding the stray aggressive, urine-spraying cat, California, and many states, have local animal services officers and groups from which you lease box traps aka Hav-a-Heart traps, and either deliver to your local animal service office, cat welfare group, or arrange to have the officer to pick up occupied trap. Check on your area's local laws regarding setting traps on your property, as some city ordinances do not allow citizens to use said traps, only city officials licensed to do so. You can purchase your own to use, from Lowe's, TSC, or amazon, ensuring you get one Even if he does belong to a neighbor, his behavior is detrimental to your cats, yourself, and himself, as he will or has already been injured during such aggressive encounters. You or your partner could have been injured in the midst of his attack with your girls. Cat bites and scratches can become deeply infected and compromise a hand's range of motion, or cause loss of a digit completely if a joint is punctured. Your local animal control service will respond to this as not merely a nuisance, but a public safety issue. Animal services will ensure he's vaccinated, altered, scan for microchip, locate his owner and enforce better owner management of him, or find him a new home/owner. It will help him, and help your family, all in one swoop, to involve animal control services. We hope they respond quickly to removing this cat from your area. Hope the girls are slowly but surely improving.

Toe beans, especially patchy rainbow ones, to lift your spirits. Reba appears to commiserate with you.
Lil Bub, Ehlers Danlos syndrome kitty therapy.
$50-60, 6-7ft cat trees I bought from amazon, chewy, etc to meet your cats' environmental needs.
Prince therapy.
Yoda therapy.
Thank you for the information, I appreciate it. I will look at the literature you sent, hopefully there is some new information in there. I do have Feliway Multicat going in my house, I may need to get some more.
 

mentat

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Here for your F frenetic mango . We know it's not an easy road, at times feeling absolutely defeated. The prescriptions have helped while modifying other environmental comforts and conditioning behavior. Mine have benefited greatly from fluoxetine and sertraline during a transition period 2-6mo, and long term, for years, depending on the cat. Here's hoping to a better day for you and the girls.
 

Furballsmom

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positive because it gets them away from the site of the fight? Can this be done with one person?
Yes, and yes. My heart goes out to you, and hopefully the negative vibes diminish, which will also help.

We have info that might be helpful for when you get close to moving, how to do it with cats. I'm sending loads of hugs!
 
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frenetic mango

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Hi all, just looking for advice. We have installed a screen door to the bedroom, and are using a baby gate to keep some distance between the cats. Today we tried leaving the flap open a bit after one of them was done eating. The other was still at her dish. The one that finished eating was sitting under the cat tree cleaning herself, but could still see the one that was eating. This is at a much greater distance than we normally feed them at. The one that was eating decided to get up and walk off, unconcerned, and the one cleaning herself under the tree I suppose saw this, charged, and hissed. Luckily the baby gate prevented her from getting too close and the eating one did not see it happen fortunately and is fine. This seems to point to the one under the tree as the aggressor, correct? Is movement the issue here? How can I desensitize one cat to the other getting up? Do we need to start doing other training as well?
 
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frenetic mango

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Separately, we can either move very soon or in 3 months due to our landlord selling the property. We can renew for the remainder of the lease or just cut and run. I hate this place, and it is constantly loud and stressful for them and us. I am torn between a new environment being good for them, where no craziness has happened and that is potentially quieter, and the stress of the move setting everything back to square one. So we could move soon and just continue this process in the new house, or work with them more here and wait till we see more progress, and then move. Any opinions?
 

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How can I desensitize one cat to the other getting up?
I have to admit, I don't think you can. The only thing that will is time....

So we could move soon and just continue this process in the new house
... And I'm voting very strongly for this. They can pick up on your stress and dislike of things plus you're right, the loud environment is hard on everyone.
 
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frenetic mango

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I have to admit, I don't think you can. The only thing that will is time....


... And I'm voting very strongly for this. They can pick up on your stress and dislike of things plus you're right, the loud environment is hard on everyone.
Our kitchen wall is the side of a parking space, people open their car doors into our house every evening. Today, people came to strip paint off the house and repaint, it is also possible that the aggressive cat was feeling anxious about all the weird scraping noises and things that happened today. As far as moving, I guess we will just have to set up 2 different rooms for them in the new house? Are there any other considerations or things I would need to prepare for?
 

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