Litter mates had encounter with outside cat, now hate each other

[frenetic mango]

I have some questions about the future... I know that seeing outside cats might cause this again, but it seems cruel to never let a cat even look out the window to see outside? Once they're back to normal, will I ever be able to let them look out again? I was also in the process of leash training them, they were doing well, and this makes it feel like that will never be successful now. How can I desensitize them? I want to give them a good fulfilling life, not close them up in the house forever because bad things might happen.

 

[frenetic mango]

Also, how long without incident should I wait to let them see each other? The last blow up was last night, but they did not see each other during said blow up, one could just hear the other screaming her head off.

 

[Jcatbird]

It could be that someone nearby dumped him. Neutering could help with the spraying even if he sticks around. He’s probably hoping a cat person will help him. A rescue group may help. Worth trying. If you must remove clothes and things from the house, seal them in garbage bags. It helps a lot! Even stuff inside can be sealed until cleaned if needed. The Ssssscat would help more outside but , believe it or not right now, this can be worked through. I went through many cats coming and going around here with a colony over 100. Spraying drove me nuts at times. I survived it all even though the stress could be rough. All the colony cats got spayed and neutered as well as finding homes. None were given over to kill shelters. Even drastic situations can be managed. I might have gained a few extra gray hairs during that time though! Keep your babies stowed away from the door and let them settle inside. Concentrate on your work and see if taking your mind off kitties for a little while helps. Come back to this after your work and start fresh. Once you get the work done, look into possible options for the outside cat. Make sure any rescue group is no kill. You might even see if he belongs to a neighbor. They may appreciate help finding a way to stop spraying and Neuter too. Many groups offer assistance with that. He could also be lost. You could post pictures of him online at places like Nextdoor to see if he can go back home! That would be wonderful! It would solve a lot. There are lots of possible solutions so please hang in there. Let us help you navigate through. You’ll get there!!

 

[Jcatbird]

Our posts crossed. It’s too soon to re introduce if they are yelling. You want to let them indicate when they feel calm. Peeing and screaming is definitely too early.
Can you just hold off on worrying about the future of looking outside? It will come later. Nothing has become impossible. Nothing. The future remains open and filled with hope but you have steps to follow to get there. I know we always want everything right back to where we were but with kitties, sometimes we have setbacks. Even with human children we can have setbacks. In the thread I sent a link to, the lady had her ups and downs AND she was going through school at the same time. I actually saw a new post from her tonight. She is nearing the end of clinical with school and is often away from the kitties now. At first, both had to be separated. Then I told her about using the closet shelving you can buy in lengths to fit your door height. She blocked the kitties with that. The new kitty was a feral and now is a lap cat! Her older boy not only accepted the new young male, they are left together when she is away from home. She was anxiety ridden too. She got through it and you and your babies will too. One step at a time and then go to the next. Progress will happen. Sending good vibes your way.

 

[frenetic mango]

They were screaming and peeing at the outdoor cat's return last night, but yes, I think it's too early too. I just wonder when is right. I gave one a t-shirt to lay on during the day today, and the other a blanket. I switched, and gave t-shirt kitty the blanket and blanket kitty the t-shirt in their favorite spots (still separated). They are both laying on the respective smelly pieces of fabric, and the one I can see has narrow chillin' eyes. I guess that will have to give me hope for the moment.

 

[frenetic mango]

It could be that someone nearby dumped him. Neutering could help with the spraying even if he sticks around. He’s probably hoping a cat person will help him. A rescue group may help. Worth trying. If you must remove clothes and things from the house, seal them in garbage bags. It helps a lot! Even stuff inside can be sealed until cleaned if needed. The Ssssscat would help more outside but , believe it or not right now, this can be worked through. I went through many cats coming and going around here with a colony over 100. Spraying drove me nuts at times. I survived it all even though the stress could be rough. All the colony cats got spayed and neutered as well as finding homes. None were given over to kill shelters. Even drastic situations can be managed. I might have gained a few extra gray hairs during that time though! Keep your babies stowed away from the door and let them settle inside. Concentrate on your work and see if taking your mind off kitties for a little while helps. Come back to this after your work and start fresh. Once you get the work done, look into possible options for the outside cat. Make sure any rescue group is no kill. You might even see if he belongs to a neighbor. They may appreciate help finding a way to stop spraying and Neuter too. Many groups offer assistance with that. He could also be lost. You could post pictures of him online at places like Nextdoor to see if he can go back home! That would be wonderful! It would solve a lot. There are lots of possible solutions so please hang in there. Let us help you navigate through. You’ll get there!!

Also, just to throw it out there, I did contact a TNR group earlier today, I don't know if they rehome, or if he already belongs to someone but he doesn't wear a collar. I know he's just doing his cat thing, and he's super weirdly chill, he just stared at my girl last night while she had a full on conniption. Not a sign of fear or even caring really, just sat there and stared at her. It was honestly really strange. I don't know why they react like this to him, they've been interacting with other cats through windows for years. Maybe they are just getting older.

 

[Jcatbird]

It could be fear or a feeling of needing to guard themselves or home. It could just be his scent. If he has strong urine as during a UTI, they may want to get him away. Sometimes one cat just has a particular feeling about another but I’ve never had two that I could not intergrate over time. Sudden introductions are one of the great problems between kitties. First impressions need to be calm and not a shock. They can also be overcome though. Just like humans, not every cat will bond with all others by a tolerance can be brought about. If that cat had been shut inside a room of your house for a period of time before they ever spotted him, it is very likely everything would have gone much differently. Being outside in an open and maybe scary environment and then have a stranger show up with aggression happening right away, this escalated quickly. It was probably just sort of a weird accident. If I could compare it to a human example, I would say it’s kind of like running into a stranger in the dark in a city where you are new. Heart pounding!! You might even have nightmares later. Just keep loving on and reassuring your babies. The scent swapping you are doing is great! Calm eyes? Also great. Good job!!

 

[frenetic mango]

They seem very calm with each other's noises and scents, the one with me is just sort of roaming around like she does in the morning, she's very interested in the barrier but not in a nervous way, she's coming up and head butting me and purring, just kind of watching the barrier wiggle and listening to her sister meow. All has been calm since the night before last. No visits. I wish I was as calm as they seem to be.

 

[Jcatbird]

I’m thinking that as they settle , you will start to feel better. I certainly hope so. Just keep freshening the items with their scents and keep things quiet for awhile. It’s still too early to push things. Enjoy the peace and give yourself time to take it a bit easier.

 

[frenetic mango]

I think the thing that's stressing me most is that to keep them separated, my partner and I have to be separated too. He stays locked in the kitchen all day with one and can't get to the living room, bedroom, or out of the house, and I'm locked out of the kitchen with the other and can't get to the bathroom or kitchen. This morning I peed in a bottle. This living situation is just absolutely not sustainable, and if they don't cooperate relatively soon I just don't know what we'll do.

 

[frenetic mango]

I also am very uncomfortable leaving for work with just him to keep them fine across the gates.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I think you need to go back through all of the suggestions you've been given and jot them down and list pros and cons, and then add another column for what you have and have not tried, and what the results were. All of the things you are upset about have had suggestions given to you that, as far as I can tell from your posts, you have not tried.

I know you are frustrated, but any action is better than none. It requires patience, acceptance of the situation, perseverance, and frankly some ingenuity/creativity. The members on this site have provided the latter, and some ideas on how to attain the formers. Use them!!

 

[frenetic mango]

I've given them medication, I have feliway going, I have them separated, I blocked out the windows, I'm doing scent swapping, I'm feeding them on either side of the barrier, I've bought and used more pee cleaner than I knew existed on earth inside and outside my house, I bought ssscat to keep the outside cat away, I stopped using ssscat on them inside when someone suggested it, I've contacted TNR, I'm playing with them both as much as possible, I'm switching them between rooms, I'm being extra careful with my clothing and shoes..... if there's something that's been suggested that I haven't tried, please let me know. And none of these things make it such that I can freely use the bathroom regardless.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi! I apologise if I'm out of date but is the outside cat still hanging around? Is a TNR group coming to get him/ neuter him?

 

[FeebysOwner]

if there's something that's been suggested that I haven't tried, please let me know

Just some examples of things you have said that are bothering you and you were given suggestions to help with, but if you have enacted them, I must have missed it.

I am considering buying and installing a door on the bedroom.

I can't even get to my bathroom without my partner's help.

I think the thing that's stressing me most is that to keep them separated, my partner and I have to be separated too. He stays locked in the kitchen all day with one and can't get to the living room, bedroom, or out of the house, and I'm locked out of the kitchen with the other and can't get to the bathroom or kitchen. This morning I peed in a bottle. This living situation is just absolutely not sustainable, and if they don't cooperate relatively soon I just don't know what we'll do.

The 'folding door' can then be opened and closed as needed, and you can still place a blanket over it (or, even affix cardboard to it by punching holes in the cardboard and using zip ties to fasten it to the shelving) since that worked before your partner fast-tracked the movement of the blanket

It might be advisable to pursue your initial thought and ask if you can install a door by which to keep them separated.

He's also being particularly harsh with one cat who is eliminating inappropriately... I don't know how to get him to be more patient, he is just making things worse at every turn. He has never much cared for them in the first place. /QUOTE]

I also am very uncomfortable leaving for work with just him to keep them fine across the gates.

The first thing is to find out whether or not your partner can 'buy in' to how much you want to work through this and either help you or - frankly - butt out and let you be in charge. If he can't help, then he need not interfere - there are all kinds of ways to find a compromise and feel OK with it. Some people are just better equipped to handle some things than others. If you don't have his buy in, but knew he wouldn't negatively interfere, would that help you feel more in control?

I have some questions about the future... I know that seeing outside cats might cause this again, but it seems cruel to never let a cat even look out the window to see outside? Once they're back to normal, will I ever be able to let them look out again? I was also in the process of leash training them, they were doing well, and this makes it feel like that will never be successful now. How can I desensitize them? I want to give them a good fulfilling life, not close them up in the house forever because bad things might happen.

Can you just hold off on worrying about the future of looking outside? It will come later. Nothing has become impossible. Nothing. The future remains open and filled with hope but you have steps to follow to get there. I know we always want everything right back to where we were but with kitties, sometimes we have setbacks.

I’m thinking that as they settle , you will start to feel better. I certainly hope so. Just keep freshening the items with their scents and keep things quiet for awhile. It’s still too early to push things

And, I only went through and quoted just a smidgen of the things. That is why I thought it would help you to go through everything in detail, make notes, and chart what you have and have not done. There has been a lot of information/suggestions 'thrown' at you - certainly some have been lost in the shuffle. A lot of information to consider and evaluate!!

 

[Jcatbird]

It sounds like the kitties are starting to settle. I can understand that being kept from traveling within the house is extremely hard but don’t give up now! You’re making huge progress and I feel you are so close to getting ahead. Hang on!

 

[frenetic mango]

Hi! I apologise if I'm out of date but is the outside cat still hanging around? Is a TNR group coming to get him/ neuter him?

I haven't recieved any correspondence from the TNR group. He hasn't been back in the yard that I've seen since we put up the ssscat sensors out there. I guess I can contact the other TNR group, but their website said they can take weeks to even respond.

 

[frenetic mango]

They are definitely settling down. They don't react to each other's smells or meows, both want through the barrier to the rest of their house, and they saw each other's faces briefly this morning and nobody had a conniption. Is it time to let them see a teeny bit of each other?

 

[frenetic mango]

Is the open mouth smelling thing they do a sign of stress? Or just neutral?

 

[FeebysOwner]

They are definitely settling down. They don't react to each other's smells or meows, both want through the barrier to the rest of their house, and they saw each other's faces briefly this morning and nobody had a conniption. Is it time to let them see a teeny bit of each other?

What are you talking about doing? Raising the blanket a bit at the bottom of the gates? If so, sure, try it while you can watch them and any negative reaction, lower the blanket again.

Is the open mouth smelling thing they do a sign of stress? Or just neutral?

I have heard some cats will do open mouth breathing when stressed or fearful. I am not sure what open mouth smelling is though.