Lincoln's Ckd

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #41

HelenRB

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
56
Purraise
70
Oh, thank you so much! That is great info.

I gave Lincoln some Fancy Feast mixed with a bit of Nutri-cal and warm water before I left for a meeting tonight. When I got back, he had finished it. He probably liked being left alone to eat it!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #43

HelenRB

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
56
Purraise
70
Here's my guy this morning, hiding because I offered him some food.

We are still having a tough time. He's eating a little more than he was, I think - he seems to be a bit perkier and more interested in food in the evenings, and not at all interested or energetic earlier in the day. I don't know if that's a "thing" that others have experienced. Sometimes he will come up to the food, sniff it, and literally run behind the couch. He hasn't had a bowel movement all week.

Last night I put a little nutri-cal in his mouth and I'm pretty sure he wanted to murder me.

I'm planning to go to the vet next week and learn how to give fluids, and see if that helps him. I'm nervous about that - not about needles (I give myself injections for rheumatoid arthritis, and I've given insulin to a cat), but about it being a miserable, difficult experience for him. He is pretty sick of being poked and prodded, and, being honest, I'm not sure how well I'll handle it if I have to force it on him.

I am really hoping to get a new job soon and move closer to family and friends, and then I'd also be in a city where I could access various pet home caregivers with vet tech backgrounds who could help out once in a while (there are none in my little town).


 

Jem

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
5,573
Purraise
11,246
Does he lick his lips at all after smelling the food and running away? If so, It is most likely that just smelling the food makes him feel sick. When my Toby went thru that, the fluids did help with that. You could also see if you can get an anti-nausea medication for him from the vet.
Most likely the reason he has not pooped is because he is not eating, cats need to eat to continue to pass stools, if there's not enough in there, it won't come out. I wonder if giving some sort of flavored hairball paste would help move things along a bit, or at least lube things up in there for him so he does not get too constipated. The longer poop stays in there, the more it hardens.

I was TERRIFIED about giving fluids, but it's really not that bad. I know you mention he's getting tired of being poked and prodded, but does he let you do what you need to for the most part? If's he's relatively chill, I'm sure you won't have a problem. With Toby, as long as we were scratching his favorite spot, he'd sit still. I also found that the more you try to restrain them the more they fuss. So try to let him pick the spot where he feels relaxed, and work around that. We hung our fluid bag on a coat rack, so the flow was good and fast and it was all very portable. In all, it only takes maybe 5 minutes (if that) so hopefully he wont get too antsy.
As I mentioned before, I got more tricks up my sleeve for giving fluids, so just ask if you need. But I would recommend that you have the vet show you how to do it in office and then do it yourself while the vet watches just to make sure you're comfortable with it.
And don'y worry, you'll do fine!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #45

HelenRB

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
56
Purraise
70
Thanks so much for the info and support, Jem. We are actually going tonight to get fluids - they were able to get me in after work. Unfortunately, he is not very chill about procedures, pills etc. He really fights anything he doesn't want.

As for the lip licking... he does a little bit, yes. Not a lot, but a bit.

I'm working from home for a bit today and he has been hiding all morning.

I don't want him to suffer and of course I don't want him just starving himself to death. I will see how the fluids go and hope they make a difference for him.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #46

HelenRB

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
56
Purraise
70
I did it! I gave Lincoln fluids.

A vet tech taught me. She did half the amount, then watched me do it. It was surprisingly easy (touch wood). The test will be whether he sits still for me at home with just me, but he didn’t seem to feel the needle so I am hopeful. If it’s helpful to him, I am thinking of doing it three times a week.

They also gave him an anti-nausea injection. I have to be away overnight tomorrow (and have a pet-sitter checking on him) so I thought that that might at least help him eat before I go.

So, it’s wait and see I guess. Tonight he has eaten 10 Temptations and a piece of chicken from my own dinner that I sucked all the salt off of. Not exactly ideal... but not nothing.
 

Jem

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
5,573
Purraise
11,246
YAY!!!! I knew you could do it! :yess: And you're right, they hardly even feel the needle, just do it firm and quick, and it's all good. :thumbsup:
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #48

HelenRB

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
56
Purraise
70
I am so confused by what's happening with Lincoln!

He's had fluids twice now. I gave them at home, and it went really well! He was so good. I did it in my tiny bathroom with the door shut so that if he did try to run away, he wouldn't get far.

I just don't know if they're helping, though. The way he feels truly does seem to depend on time of day... and it almost seems more psychological than physical?

In the evenings, he often seems to perk up. He'll sit on my lap while I watch tv and sometimes eat a bit, and use his scratching post. He sleeps on me in bed at night.

Over the past two days he has refused everything but tuna in water, although he's had a fair bit of that.

During the day, he seems miserable and scared. He crouches under the bed or behind the couch in the "meatloaf" position and will not eat or come out. He almost seems scared of me, and like he just wants me to leave the apartment. His eyes look so unhappy. During these times, I think "he is really suffering - this can't go on".

He has not vomited, and he did finally poop yesterday. He doesn't play with his favourite toys anymore.

I'm going away for two weeks on June 9th and had planned for him to stay with friends who he's familiar with, but I'm not sure they're the right people to leave him with in this state. I do have a colleague with experience of sick kitties who has agreed to take him, but she may not be comfortable giving fluids, or I could board him at a vet clinic, but I'm starting to worry about money with all these vet visits.

I wish he could talk to me! Have I done something to cause this? Did the sudden change to k/d, after the first vet told me "it's this or nothing", bring about some kind of anxiety and anorexia?
 

denice

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
Messages
18,838
Purraise
13,144
Location
Columbus OH
CKD cats can be prone to excess stomach acid which can be more of a problem in the morning because of an empty stomach. You can try Pepcid, just plain Pepcid no extra strength or any extras just plain Pepcid. Try 1/4 tablet first given at night. Are there any treats that he just loves? Some people have had good luck giving a treat a half hour or so before their breakfast. The treat soaks up excess acid in the stomach.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #50

HelenRB

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
56
Purraise
70
Ooh, that’s good info, Denice!

I see Pepcid is also available as a transdermal gel... Lincoln is a total terror to try to give a pill to with just one person. I wonder if the gel is available in Canada.

He is having a good day today, not hiding, being snuggly, but not really eating.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #51

HelenRB

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
56
Purraise
70
Just a little update... (especially for Furballsmom Furballsmom , Jem Jem and denice denice , who have been so helpful):

Lincoln has been slowly improving over the past week. Getting him to eat still takes effort, but my vet has ordered Mirtazapine as a transdermal gel so we'll be starting that soon. I've also found a few foods that, fingers crossed, he never refuses, and he seems to have resigned himself to the fact that I'm going to stick nutri-cal in his mouth every once in a while, too.

I'm giving him fluids three times a week, and can't believe how easy it is. He sits so patiently.

I decided to visit my family this weekend and took him with me. I wouldn't have left him on his own, but I thought he was stable enough for the car ride (he did fine) and I really needed the break, so off we went. He had a great time sitting on the screened-in porch looking at birds, sniffing his cousins and stealing their toys, and snuggling with my Dad. He also ate really well, without too much coaxing. All that helped me relax a bit, too.

I am really looking forward to getting started with the Mirtazapine. My goal is to get him eating consistently again and then, with the help of some more research, slowly introduce a more kidney-appropriate diet.
 

Jem

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
5,573
Purraise
11,246
That's wonderful to hear! And awesome that he did so well with the visit.

One thing I don't think was mentioned. Because eating anything is better than forcing feeding or not eating at all, IF you can't find an appropriate "kidney friendly" food, you can talk to your vet about getting a phosphorus binder medication to help keep phosphorus levels down. Then you can focus on keeping Lincoln eating to maintain his weight and get good quality protein in him.
I'm not sure at what stage something like that is appropriate or if you don't want to start something like that too soon, (I personally never used them) but definitely something you bring up to your vet.
Give some cuddles to Lincoln for me! (And a big hug to you too!)
 

Furballsmom

Cat Devotee
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Messages
39,271
Purraise
53,931
Location
Colorado US
He had a great time sitting on the screened-in porch looking at birds, sniffing his cousins and stealing their toys, and snuggling with my Dad. He also ate really well, without too much coaxing. All that helped me relax a bit, too.
Good for him!! Really good for you :thumbsup:
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #54

HelenRB

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
56
Purraise
70
Thank you both!

I will look into the phosphorus binder, Jem. I've heard of them but didn't really know what they were for.

Wondering about B12, too.

Lincoln had his first dose of the transdermal Mirtazapine this morning. I got up early to give it to him so I'd have time before I left to see how it affected him. So far, no difference at all.... He had no interest in his canned food and hid under the bed (I've started to think this is more from annoyance with me than feeling unwell). He ate quite a lot last night of his own accord and had some Whiskas catmilk and a pouch of Delectables bisque this morning (he never refuses them) so I wasn't panicking, but I am reeeeally hoping this works for him.

It would be nice not to have to spend my evenings presenting him with different foods and throwing away all the ones he refuses!
 

Jem

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
5,573
Purraise
11,246
Obviously wet food is best for him, BUT, I wonder, especially because you are giving him fluids now, if you would leave him a small amount of kibble for the overnight and while you are gone, and he snacked on it, he would be more willing to eat at his wet meal times. Snacking on the kibble might help keep stomach acid down and would help with nausea for his morning meal. Just a thought.
We always left kibble out for Toby to free feed from, but he would still eat his wet food meals (when he was not feeling sick of course). Toby never seemed to "fill up" on kibble because he would only have a few pieces here and there throughout the day/night. And like I said, because of the fluids, you don't have to worry AS much about dehydration.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #56

HelenRB

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
56
Purraise
70
Thanks Jem Jem :) I do always leave some kibble out, but he won't touch it unfortunately. His teeth aren't the best (he has a heart murmur so I have not had the vet do a thorough cleaning) and my aunt never fed him kibble, so he has just not really gotten used to it.

I'm frustrated and disappointed - so far, there's no sign that the Mirtazapine is doing anything at all. I'm not sure how long to wait before trying something else.

I wonder if the pill form would work better. He will take Pepcid crushed up in a Delectables bisque, but I've heard Mirtazapine is very bitter...

I just want him to be eating well by the time I go on vacation (June 9th) so that my friends don't have to go to so much effort.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #57

HelenRB

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
56
Purraise
70
Well, he ended up eating lots yesterday! I don't know if it was the Mirtazapine or not, because he wasn't exactly demanding food or behaving any differently, he just was more agreeable about eating what I gave him. He probably had about 220 cals, which I'm thrilled with.

I was complaining to my sister that he absolutely will not eat leftovers. If a can has been in the fridge (even if it's warmed up again), he won't touch it. She mentioned that because my aunt had so many cats, she would have opened fresh cans for every meal, so that's probably it. I'm looking around for smaller packages so I can stop wasting so much.
 

denice

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Feb 7, 2006
Messages
18,838
Purraise
13,144
Location
Columbus OH
This is actually a pretty common issue with kitties. The little royals want a fresh can, no leftovers thank you very much.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #60

HelenRB

TCS Member
Thread starter
Young Cat
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Messages
56
Purraise
70
I'm always surprised that he can tell, if I've let it come to room temperature or microwaved it. But no matter what I do, he's onto me. :doh:

My parents' cats will eat anything that's put in front of them... must be nice!
 
Top