L-lysine = which virus? Corona??

StefanZ

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L- lysine is supposed to help against some viruses, but not all.

Which viruses does it potentially help against?

Corona?
 

Krienze

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It's good for treating herpes symptoms and infections. I don't know about Viruses.
Honestly if you are worried about the corona, up your vitamin c intake. I have and I've been taking turmeric capsules (usually just drink the tea.)
 

Jem

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L-lysine is said to help with Feline Herpesvirus, which is not caused by the corona virus. I have not heard anything that supports that it helps with other virus infections other than herpes virus (FHV-1)
 
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StefanZ

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L-lysine is said to help with Feline Herpesvirus, which is not caused by the corona virus. I have not heard anything that supports that it helps with other virus infections other than herpes virus (FHV-1)
Ah, herpes. So it should also help against the human Shingles / zoster? Good to know.
 

kittenmittens84

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L-lysine is said to help with Feline Herpesvirus, which is not caused by the corona virus. I have not heard anything that supports that it helps with other virus infections other than herpes virus (FHV-1)
Isn’t the evidence that it helps against herpesvirus also mixed? Or am I thinking of something else?

OP I wouldn’t make conclusions that since something could help cats fight a certain virus that it would also do the same for humans
 
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StefanZ

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Isn’t the evidence that it helps against herpesvirus also mixed? Or am I thinking of something else?

OP I wouldn’t make conclusions that since something could help cats fight a certain virus that it would also do the same for humans
Yeah, I know and understand this is shady. Still, Im free to make my own assumptions. :)
 

Jem

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Isn’t the evidence that it helps against herpesvirus also mixed? Or am I thinking of something else?
Yes, which is why I said..."it is SAID to help with...". There have been studies that show it does nothing, but there are also studies and many who use it with great success. In all though, I have not come across anything that proves that it is harmful, so it's one of things where if you think it works...great...if not, don't use it. Kind of a "no harm in trying" thing. :dunno::)
I just wanted to point that it is NOT used for coronavirus.

StefanZ StefanZ - I THINK, the reason why "they" started using and researching the use of Lysine for cats is because it IS used in natural products to help lessen the symptoms of Herpes Simplex 1 (cold sores), and shows that it POSSIBLY helps with Herpes Simplex 2 (genital herpes) outbreaks. There is no evidence that supports that it helps with Herpes zoster (Chicken pox and Shingles).
Just FYI :thumbsup:
 

fionasmom

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I see a functional/integrative MD who is recommending lycine, along with several other supplements, for immune support to protect from the corona virus.
 

syzygycat

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Because L-Lysine regulates DNA replication, it was thought to help limit viral replication, it's a sound theory, but a wrong one. The evidence was anecdotal but actual studies from 2015 and more after. Showed it has zero anti-viral properties.
 

molly92

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I see a functional/integrative MD who is recommending lycine, along with several other supplements, for immune support to protect from the corona virus.
ugghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Sorry, that doctor needs to take a refresher immunology course.

I'm repeating advice that I've heard from multiple doctors just today: the best way to help your immune system is the same tried and true advice we've always had: eat your fruits and vegetables, get plenty of sleep, and stay hydrated. If you have a normal immune system, it will work like it should when you supply it with everything it and the rest of your body needs, but there's no super food or magic herb that's going to give your immune system extra super powers. Make sure you're getting all your vitamins so you're not deficient in anything of course, but be careful of overusing supplements with lots of claims. For example, green tea extract (not green tea itself, but the concentrated extract) can cause liver damage.

I'm really not qualified to be dispensing medical advice so don't listen to me necessarily, but I've heard so many doctors say a version of the above today and it really frustrates me that that one doctor is saying differently. Especially because I do work in molecular biology and I know the lysine part is wrong.

Now, there could be something that ends up being a very effective antiviral for this virus. That would be wonderful. But if so, we have no idea what that is yet.
 

molly92

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Because L-Lysine regulates DNA replication, it was thought to help limit viral replication, it's a sound theory, but a wrong one. The evidence was anecdotal but actual studies from 2015 and more after. Showed it has zero anti-viral properties.
That's not exactly the main hypothesis. The herpes virus uses lots of arginine to make its new viruses in a cell. Without arginine available, it doesn't make new viruses. You can't get rid of arginine inside your body (it's pretty important), but lysine has a very similar structure to arginine. The idea is that if you flood the cells in your body with lysine, the virus will keep grabbing lysine instead of the arginine it needs to reproduce.

This works if you just have a bunch of cells in a dish and you add lysine directly to them, but your body is complicated and your cells regulate levels of everything, so I suspect it doesn't work very well in practice because of this.

Regardless, SARS COV-2 (COVID-19) isn't a herpes virus and arginine isn't integral to it's structure that we know of. I'm sure it uses arginine, but it might not be that important of an amino acid for it. In fact, I just stumbled on an article that showed that adding lots of lysine to cells with infected with HIV actually caused the virus to multiply more, because as it turns out, the HIV virus loves lysine and needs a lot of it! For all we know, lysine could be really helpful for this virus.

We all want answers, but we don't have them right now. This kind of research takes time. The quickest solution will likely be a vaccine, and that will be a minimum of a year's wait. What we do know is that washing your hands and staying away from people helps.
 

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Lysine works in both humans and cats to deter viral replication. You can find dosage recommendations online from holistic vet Jean Hofve and alternative health guide Anthony Williams. I've used it in both my FHV cat and myself (chronic auto-immune condition) successfully. However I found citricidal which is made from grapefruit to be stronger and faster-acting. It's also easier to administer (comes out of a dropper bottle), smaller to carry around and cheaper per dose (a penny a day, for me). I don't work for the company, just spreading the good news - you'll find it on amazon.
 

sivyaleah

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Isn’t the evidence that it helps against herpesvirus also mixed? Or am I thinking of something else?

OP I wouldn’t make conclusions that since something could help cats fight a certain virus that it would also do the same for humans
Correct, leaning to does NOT help.
And also, cat/humans are different and just because something is safe and effective for a human does not make it the same for an animal.
 

sivyaleah

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Lysine works in both humans and cats to deter viral replication. You can find dosage recommendations online from holistic vet Jean Hofve and alternative health guide Anthony Williams. I've used it in both my FHV cat and myself (chronic auto-immune condition) successfully. However I found citricidal which is made from grapefruit to be stronger and faster-acting. It's also easier to administer (comes out of a dropper bottle), smaller to carry around and cheaper per dose (a penny a day, for me). I don't work for the company, just spreading the good news - you'll find it on amazon.
Please provide proof that this works. A peer reviewed medical paper/journal articles, etc.
 

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From the summary page of the National Institute of Health's National Library of Medicine summary page on lysine, some choice quotes:

"Lysine is particularly useful in therapy for marasmus (wasting) and herpes simplex. It stops the growth of herpes simplex in culture, and has helped to reduce the number and occurrence of cold sores in clinical studies.... The mechanism underlying this effect is based on the viral need for amino acid arginine; lysine competes with arginine for absorption and entry into cells. Lysine inhibits HSV growth by knocking out arginine.... Lysine dosages are presently too small and may fail to reach the concentrations necessary to prove potential therapeutic applications."

Make sure you get the proper dose as suggested by an experienced holistic vet who has had decades of experience treating FHV and other immune conditions with lysine!

Much love and God bless from me and my kitty Chairman Meow
 

Oysterbay

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And here's a treat for the OP: section 16.1 from the NIH site details the literature on lysine and Covid specifically.
Lysine

In general there is much more to be optimistic about than we fear. Things are never as bad as they seem, or as good as we'd like.

Enjoy all!
 

molly92

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Lysine definitely inhibits herpes simplex....in culture! Culture means growing 1 type of cell in a dish while giving them certain ingredients they need. They don't have contact with any other kinds of cells that would be communicating with them in an organism, and they've adapted somewhat to growing in a plastic dish so they're going to be a bit different from cells in the body. These are the big drawbacks of cell culture studies, and there are attempts to refine the design of these experiments to more closely simulate an in vivo experiment, but we're still a long ways off.

When cells are in a body, they're constantly getting signals from other cells on what to make and degrade. If you remember back to biology class, homeostasis is a key process in keeping the body alive: it keeps levels of biomolecules in a specific range. Lysine is one of these naturally occurring biomolecules that can be "cut" out of proteins and reused, or it can be cut into even smaller pieces and be used to make other molecules. This is why it gets so complicated when you introduce extra lysine to an organism instead of just a few cells directly. A lot can happen to it as it makes its way around the body and studies are inconclusive.

I direct those interested to this paper: Lysine for Herpes Simplex Prophylaxis: A Review of the Evidence It reviews the data and shortcomings of several lysine supplementation trials for herpes simplex, and concludes that we need more long term, well-controlled studies to be able to say if high doses of lysine provide a benefit. But, since herpes simplex isn't a hugely life-threatening health concern, funding is limited, so it's not likely that we will get those studies soon.

I am not saying that lysine supplementation might not help with certain health conditions. There are some more niche health concerns seem to benefit, according to other papers. But we CANNOT simply say that lysine is good for you, or lysine will help with all diseases. It's very complicated and, since lysine is used a lot of different ways by a lot of different organisms, bacteria and viruses included, there's always the possibility of lysine supplementation making a condition WORSE. Please don't take it or any supplement in excess for anything it has not been approved for. Talk to your doctor and pharmacist to find out if it's a good option for your specific medical conditions.

There is absolutely ZERO research supporting the idea that lysine supplementation could help with COVID-19. @preeti prakash, nothing in the link you provided mentions anything about COVID-19. In fact, this coronavirus actually uses quite a bit of lysine in its proteins, so if the prevailing theory about how lysine works with herpes is correct, then supplementing with lysine could actually make your COVID infection worse! I doubt it would have much of an effect at all, but there's still a possibility, and that's why we need to be careful about messing around with supplements until we have good, solid proof.
 

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And there’s this
Lysine supplementation is not effective for the prevention or treatment of feline herpesvirus 1 infection in cats: a systematic review

They concluded Lysine actually caused potential harm in cats and provided no antiviral properties in the cat. They recommend the stop of using lysine supplementation in cats.

“Essentiality of arginine in cats
It has been demonstrated that excess dietary lysine does not affect plasma arginine levels in adult cats [32]. Fur- thermore, it seems that FHV-1 is less dependent on
arginine than human herpesvirus 1 is (our data). Irre- spectively, trying to lower arginine levels in the cat is undesirable.
Arginine is an essential amino acid in cats. In fact, arginine is so critical for this species, no attempts should be made to restrict this amino acid in their diets. Humans fed a diet completely lacking arginine for 5 days showed no clinical signs and no toxic ammonium levels, demon- strating that we can synthesize arginine when needed [53]. Feeding cats a diet free of arginine or with low amounts of arginine, however, has severe consequences, among others rapid weight loss (100 g/day), complete refusal to eat and death as the result of ammonia intoxication [35, 54]. Be- cause of the protein-rich diet of cats, large amounts of ammonium, a by-product of protein and amino acid metabolism, need to be excreted from the body, which in turn requires a lot of arginine [33]. Arginine is an essential component of the urea cycle, the pathway by which mam- mals get rid of ammonia (see Fig. 4).“
 

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Is that a meta-analysis you're referencing? I guess if the NIH won't convince you, I can't. You can lead a horse to water, but....

It's 2020 folks! Do the work. Ask questions. Then listen, listen, listen. Love, Chairman Meow
 

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Keeping your cats indoors (and yourself), minimizing contact with outsiders is about all thats gonna help with corona. And good hygiene!
 
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