Kittens, Umbellical Cords, And Stillborn. Advice Please

[Sarthur2]

I hope you keep those 2!

 

[Mittysmommy]

I'm really debating!

 

[lutece]

since s/he is a chimeria there is the chance of maybe being a late bloomer. I’d ask the vet to do a real good check when s/he gets a little older to confirm.... but that is looking more female.

Keika, why do you think it is a chimera and not just a normal female tortoiseshell?

 

[Kieka]

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All 8 babies

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Keika, why do you think it is a chimera and not just a normal female tortoiseshell?

It's most noticeable in the the photo on fours (Albert?) leg. You can see clear orange tabby striping within the patch of orange but the rest of the kitten is solid black and white with random spots of orange here and there. So, I cheated and asked the esteem @1CatOverTheLine what the coloration was because I recognized it as not quite right for a tortoiseshell (and at the time we were thinking male). While it would take genetic testing to confirm, after looking into it further I concur. The patterning of the orange within fours black is just too blocky and odd to really conform to what one would expect for a tortoiseshell along with the clear tabby patterning in the orange but not apparent tabby patterning in the black (even ghost striping isn't apparent). It appears that four has the solid black and white pattern in areas and the orange tabby in others, which is consistent with a chimera. I don't know if it is a trick of the camera, but it also looks like the fur is finer and longer in the orange then the black. I wouldn't be surprised if four's definition of colors becomes more apparent with age.

Here is an article that goes into it more CAT CHIMERAS (MALE AND FEMALE) , about a third of the way down is a cat named Zuko who looks a lot like four might look older.

 

[lutece]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. A normal tortoiseshell is a combination of orange tabby + solid black, because the non-agouti (solid) gene doesn't work on red (orange), so you see stripes in the orange patches but not in the black patches.

 

[Kieka]

I realize that. But in this case the patterning of the colors does not conform with standard tortoiseshell or torbie variations. I agree with @1CatOverTheLine assessment that four is likely a chimera. Unless someone wants to do genetic testing though it would be difficult to confirm but as four ages it may become more evident. We'll see, for now

 

[lutece]

What do you think is unusual about it? It looks normal to me

Think of it this way: If mom is solid black + white, and dad is orange, male offspring would normally be black (with or without white) since their X chromosome is from mom. Female offspring would normally be tortoiseshell (with or without white), since the females get one "orange" X chromosome from dad. There's no way for a solid orange tabby kitten to be created.

 

[Kieka]

What do you think is unusual about it? It looks normal to me

Think of it this way: If mom is solid black + white, and dad is orange, male offspring would normally be black (with or without white) since their X chromosome is from mom. Female offspring would normally be tortoiseshell (with or without white), since the females get one "orange" X chromosome from dad. There's no way for a solid orange tabby kitten to be created.

As I said, I disagree. I do understand coat genetics, I do understand how rare it would be. However, I feel that the patterning lends itself more to a chimera. I would be willing to assent a XY/XX chimera if four ends up being a boy; which is part of the reason I was advising a close vet exam to confirm gender. If four is solidly a girl, then XY/XY is also possible. It does depend somewhat on how four develops and while we may never know for sure it may become more clear when four is older. As an aside, Four has white patches which would mean calico not tortoiseshell if not a chimera.

The entire litter was likely premature and tiny, they had a rough time for a while so it is possible for some coloration to develop or change slightly as they grown in their adult coats. It would be lovely to see four as an adult and see what s/he looks like then.

I think we've done enough hijacking of this thread for the subject. We clearly don't agree and that is okay. If you want to continue this it should probably be its own thread so the lovely litter can keep their thread all about their health and growth.

 

[Kieka]

I'm really debating!

I'd be debating how to break the news to the fiance.... but that's just me.

 

[Mittysmommy]

Kittens are doing good. Albert (#4) has passed the other runt Georgie up. My scale got broke so im unsure of current weight, however you can tell Albert is a bit bigger. The room I have the kittens in has a sliding door that has about 3 inches of space between it and the floor. I've caught Georgie escaping and now he has found the kitchen. I keep a food bowl in the kitchen for mom with dry food as well as one with wet in the room with the kittens. Today Georgie was out there eating dry food. Is that okay? Or should I make it unavailable to him?

 

[Kieka]

Kitties can be sneaky. I once had Link (as a tiny baby) somehow squeeze between the bottom of the door and floor. It's probably only two inches of space (if that). I started putting a towel against the door to keep him in until he was older.

The wet food is more ideal because of the water content, but dry won't hurt him. Georgie wants to be a big boy apparently. If he stops drinking from the milk bar you will want to make sure he is eating wet food as much as possible or drinking plenty of water.

 

[Mittysmommy]

This is Georgie. The smaller runt. Oh he is just so cute lol. He Is the one that doesn't like to hang out with the others. He found this bunny while he was out being an escape artist so i put it in the kittens room. You can now find him sleeping wherever the bunny is.

 

[Kieka]

This is Georgie. The smaller runt. Oh he is just so cute lol. He Is the one that doesn't like to hang out with the others. He found this bunny while he was out being an escape artist so i put it in the kittens room. You can now find him sleeping wherever the bunny is. View attachment 229188

Awwwwww! Baby!

Link absolutely loves stuffed animals. He used to always sleep with them and had this little stuffed kitty he took everywhere with him for a good year. He even took it outside and it would vanished for days before reappearing. Sadly, evil mommy washed it one day and it was never the same. But he still will carry around stuffed toys.

 

[Mittysmommy]

Aww. I thought it was just the sweetest thing. I'm glad he found something to snuggle because i was sad that he was always all alone.

 

[Sarthur2]

Put a dish of dry kitten chow in the room with the kittens. It’s surprising how young they learn to snack on it, and it is excellent in addition to the wet food.

 

[Mittysmommy]

Great. I will keep both in there I just wasnt sure if it was okay.

 

[Mittysmommy]

Mom is very antsy. She has meowed at the door non stop for 2 weeks. And seems depressed and short tempered. Could this be because she is upset being inside all this time?

 

[Sarthur2]

Yes, possibly. Has she been in heat again yet? When is her spay scheduled?

 

[Mittysmommy]

The shelter I spoke to when they were first born that told me they would take them and fix mom for free had told me to call them around 6 weeks to set everything up. Now they are full and can't take kittens. So i found another place that is a low cost spay clinic and it will be $50 and they got her in Tuesday and also put me in touch with a foster about an hour away from me.

 

[Mittysmommy]

That $50 sounded alot better than the $219 another place told me.