Kitten and 4 year old introduction help!

[amliag]

My lovely 16 year old cat died of renal failure almost 6 weeks ago, and whilst I was waiting for a 6 month old rescue kitten to be ready, I was adopted by a 4 year old stray I had been letting shelter in my garage (I'd been wanting to help her more for some time but the difficulties of renal failure prevented that.) Basically she turned up with a swollen face, which was an abcess and I couldn't see her in pain.
She's been here about 2 weeks longer than the kitten. I've followed the steps in the guide to introduce them, and they'll now eat their food or treats within a couple of feet, but since we're on lockdown I'm finding the next step tricky and I'd like your advice!
It's impossible to play with both of them at the same time, and the 4 year old is scared of the kitten. He's very kitteny and wants to play, and will literally jump on her tail or her back and doesn't get the message if she hisses or growls at him. (He'll also jump on me and 'play with' my arm and hand too.) I don't know his full history but I suspect he was taken from his litter mates early.
I've gone back to separate areas and playtimes and just food together, but what should I do now? I don't want them in separate areas forever but I don't want the 4 year old traumatised!
Downstairs is open plan ish, so the only places that have doors are the bedrooms and bathroom.
I hope some of you have some tips for me... Thanks for reading

 

[ArtNJ]

I'm sorry to hear about your senior cat, thats always tough. You did the right thing by helping the stray but waiting to bring him in.

There are some different guides out there, so "the steps" could mean a few different things. And most of the guides don't have specified timing for the various steps, so its really hard to comment without knowing the exact process & timing you have been using and how the cats were doing at each step. I'd also like to know how the stray was acting in the two weeks before the kitten arrived --did he seem fully adjusted?

Being a little scared of the kitten with some hissing is a fairly normal thing (for sure its weird that adults act afraid of kittens, but normal in the sense of it happens a lot!), and it may be that you should just let them work through it. But we need more detail before opining I think.

We'll do our best to help though! This is incredibly normal. All outcomes are still possible, from true friendship to the long slow road to toleration. I hope its not the long slow road, thats a bit stressful for everyone, but its not the worst thing in the world either, a lot of us have been through it.

 

[amliag]

Oh sorry, I was referring to the steps in the introduction guide on here, and Jackson Galaxy's book.

I think the main thing that makes me worry is that she runs away from him and then be chases her, seemingly thinking it's a game. I just don't want her to be so stressed out that she hides.
I got the Feliway friends diffuser, as my very first cat had some success with stopping overgrooming with that.
Before the kitten arrived she was nervous at first and didn't sit on any furniture etc, like she'd forgotten how to be indoors. After a few days she was fine. She's pretty calm unless a feather wand toy appears. Also she had a cone on for her abcess for about a week too so it wasn't a normal introduction to the house.

I'm just worried they'll never get along.

 

[ArtNJ]

Ok, so I guess you spent a couple of weeks on the intro and everything seemed totally chill before you allowed free roaming? Did you have a step where they could see each other but not interact? And that went well too?

What I'm trying to figure out is if you used the introduction process to get as much tension out as you could before you went to face to face. Reason being, if you did, its totally reasonable to commit to letting them work it out. But if there was still some tension and the introduction process was a little bit quick, maybe backing up would be the better choice.

Letting them work it out is often a fairly stressful thing for everyone, but sometimes is necessary. There is no secret that always solves this except time. So thats why I was trying to get a lot of details of the timing of the process and how they did, to get a sense if there was any real hope that backing up would do anything.

 

[amliag]

I had a few days feeding either side of a closed door, then opened it a crack, and moved the bowls slowly closer together. Now they'll eat close by with no issues.

I've tried to do the Jackson Galaxy step of playing with both in the same room, but that requires two people and lockdown rules prevent me having anyone else in right now. I can kind of play with the kitten if 4yr old is on the cat tree, but if he gets distracted by seeing her he thinks she's more interesting than the toy and pounces on her.
She's still a bit wary so I haven't allowed free roam, just a couple of experiments which weren't completely successful.
I suppose I feel that more introduction is necessary when he's calm and not leaping on her back

 

[ArtNJ]

An introduction process won't make the kitten calm, he is going to do the jumping. Some of them are quite remorseless about it, ignoring all social cues. Its actually not a prematurely separated from mom thing, its a normal kitten thing. They don't all do this, but a lot do, and it definitely makes it harder for the older cat to relax. Its a dice roll, and you got a kitten that makes this a bit more challenging. Pretty common.

Perhaps no introduction process will entirely prepare your cat for the "assault" of a highly playful kitten. Thats the reality of it. So you just have to decide if you did what you could, and then let them work it out the best they can.

How long was the cracked door stage and how were they acting? It wasn't only cracked during feeding time or was it? A final stage where they can spend some real time seeing each other is really useful. Double stacked baby gates is even better than a cracked door to me, but no denying its a much bigger PITA to set up as well.

 

[amliag]

Cracked door has been about a week and a half. He's not bothered and would eat right next to her, he just loves food and is fearless!
She took about a week before she was completely ok with it and I could get them closer. Now she will eat and won't hiss at him, she just keeps stopping eating to look at him and then will eat again. If he finishes eating before she does and starts to move she sometimes goes down a few steps (we are on the landing outside his 'base' which is my spare room)

 

[ArtNJ]

Gotcha. To me, that does indicate that you worked the process to get out as much stress as you can. Maybe an analogy will help. You have heard of gradual desensitization therapy? That is where say you are terrified of spiders, they make you have a full on panic attack, the therapist starts with a movie about a cartoon spider. Then when you are good with that, a tiny spider in a cage 12 feet away. If you no longer sweat and shake, a tiny spider on the therapists hand 10 feet away. And so on. Thats what you did, getting stress out along the way as you gradually increased the stress step-by-step. But the last step is always the hardest, and when the kitten is so play-play-play, its like going from being ok with the spider on the counter a foot away to suddenly having some crazy jumping spider randomly hopping onto your body. Ain't no way that jump is going to be remotely ok, thats going to crash the therapy process. And that is what you have going on. There just isn't much you can do, there is no in between step anymore. You have to let them work through it. It could take a week and they end up friends, or there could be gradually decreasing stress for months as the older cat slowly inches towards toleration.

I know it seems like there ought to be something, like you hold the kitten still or something, while a helper holds the big cat and you gradually get closer, but that stuff doesn't really work. You can't always get them all the way yourself; sometimes you need to see what they can do.

 

[amliag]

That's very helpful thank you.
I've had cats for over 20 years but always just one at a time so this is all a big learning curve!

 

[Grinchy]

Hello,

I have recently gone through this process and it took five weeks from the arrival of my two new kittens to playing with adult cat, Buffy.

I live alone in the week, so could only do mutual play on weekends when my boyfriend was around.

At first, that was impossible. My adult cat refused to come into the same room to play even though feeding was going well.

So I had to adapt...

I would allow Buffy to watch them from the conservatory whilst I played with the kittens.

Then eventually, open the door. Then Buffy would come in and watch.

At the end of the five weeks, Buffy was trying to play with their toy. But that was literally built up minute by minute each day. Small successes!

Also give lots of treats around playtime. Sometimes I would give Buffy treats and she'd eat them whilst the other two played.

You can also allow kitten to watch you play with adult cat.

The Jackson Galaxy process is great but I did need to mend my expectations a lot and tweak things such as allowing Buffy just to eat treats whilst I played with the kittens.

There was some fantastic advice from the cat guardians on this site.

I'll link my journey here:

Introducing new kittens to resident cat.

 

[amliag]

I just wanted to update you.
Yesterday they were both in the same area for 10 hours! There were a couple of chases and a lot of loud scary cat noises but no blood was shed.
Today kitten is still trying to play with big girl but is just being growled at. He's received a little scratch for his trouble but doesn't seem bothered, and she still seems very wary (he's big for 6 months) but is standing her ground a bit more.
I finally have hope that in time, a truce at the very least, could be reached.
Thank you

 

[Grinchy]

That's brilliant progress!

 

[amliag]

I'm pleased, especially with big girl she'll watch me play with him, and wants to join in (I can tell ) but I think she realises he doesn't bother her if I'm playing.
I played with her favourite toy once he'd gone back into his base before bedtime.
I hope once she sees he's not trying to hurt her, she'll tolerate him more