Is using Wysong Uretic AND Biotic pH- too much of the same?

summermh

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After reading NUMEROUS positive reviews from kitty owners dealing with both UTI's and struvite crystals, we're going to give the Wysong Uretic food a try. I also ordered their Biotic pH- to supplement (intended to shake on and mix with food), but now looking closely at the ingredients, wonder if using both is overkill? Maybe I should go with a supplement that's more herbal in nature, like Tinkle Tonic or Cranberry Wellness (both of which also receive excellent reviews)? Would be interested in your thoughts and/or experiences


Uretic Ingredients: Chicken, Chicken Giblets, Ground Oat Groats, Fish Oil, Salt, Dried Whey, DL-Methionine, Taurine, L-Lysine, Eggs, Plums, Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols as a source of vitamin E), Ground Wheat, Dried Wheat Grass Powder, Dried Barley Grass Powder, Whey, Dried Yogurt, Lecithin, Citric Acid, Sage Extract, Rosemary Extract, Dried Kelp, Garlic, Black Pepper, Artichoke, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Yeast Culture, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, lron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.

Biotic pH- ingredients: Chicken and Beef, Chicken and Beef Liver, DL-Methionine, Taurine, Lecithin, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Sesame Seeds, L-Carnitine, Barley Grass Powder, Wheat Grass Powder, Organic Blueberries, Carrots, Kelp, Garlic, Artichoke, Sage Extract, Rosemary Extract, Catnip, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Yeast Culture, Choline Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.
 

sharky

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This is a VET question.. as it depends on factors like current PH , how many crystals in what amount of time
 

sweetpea24

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I used the Biotic ph- for my dog's struvite crystals and it worked. I think the first thing you have to do is find out what type of crystals your cat has. If it's struvite, then you can use the biotic ph- to acidify the urine - Wysong does carry a dog food for struvite crystals. i'm not sure which crystals are affected by the Uretic food - or is this food just to maintain urinary health? Calcium oxylate crystals occur when the urine is too alkaline and require more treatment than struvite.

You should ask your vet but in my humble opinion, I would be careful so as not to cause the urine to go to the other extreme.
 
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summermh

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Thanks SweetPea, good to hear another success story! We know that Mister Grey had struvite crystals back in 2001. His pH was 7.0. He was on S/D for one month, and has been on C/D ever since.

My understanding from Wysong is that their Uretic is a urinary (acidifying) maintenance diet, and their Struvatrol is for dissolving the struvite crystals (and also only available thru an Rx). Uretic's magnesium level is the same as the maximum listed for C/D (.08%). My vet said as long as the magnesium is at least as low as C/D's, then it's fine to switch the food. The Uretic also has the urinary acidifyer (same as C/D).

So as not to overly acidify (which I understand is also a danger), maybe I only sprinkle the Biotic pH- on his food when I supplement with a wet food. Of course, also a question for the vet
.
 

sharky

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What is his PH now .. 7 is in the oh my zone via the tests my vet uses ... some vets call it normal
 
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summermh

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The urinalysis run last fall (as part of his senior panel) was "normal," but our vet didn't give me a pH number. We don't run them as a routine practice.
*edited: also, the Uretic isn't even listed on that base chart -- click on the chart and a large one with every food and every vitamin/mineral will open in a PDF file.
 

sweetpea24

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You can buy ph strips - I've seen them at Global Ryans but you can probably buy them at a pharmacy. I think 5 -6 is normal but I could be wrong. It would probably be a good idea to check the ph once in a while if your cat is prone to crystals (preventative measures are better in my opinion!)
I think Wysong is the better choice as their ingredients are more natural and I do believe their foods actually have meat in them! One line of their canned foods is not very good but for the most part, their foods seem pretty good.

Maybe you could sprinkle the Biotic ph- on the wet food at first just to get his urine more toward the acidic side and then just continue with the Uretic?

Solid Gold makes Berry Balance which I think can be used regularly to maintain urinary health but you may want to check that. I know you can't use the Biotic ph- or + on an ongoing basis.
 
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summermh

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Great idea on the pH strips
, we actually have some that I use with my son every now and then. Do you have to catch midstream, or could I use what's just clumped in litterbox?

Wonder if you can remember which Wysong canned food isn't very good? I added 4 of the Au Jus canned items to my order, just to see if my cats will eat this type of food every now and then.

Do you think it's worth me keeping the Biotic pH- if they're going to be on the Uretic? Hate to keep a $20 if we really don't need it. I'll google the Berry Balance
.

Summer
 

sharky

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Au jus are ALL meat and broth... I think I know the one that may have been spoken of as it was part of the vegitarian line
for cats Wysong has..

My vet Warned me NOT to use the berry balance and further research on part sided with her .. just FYI
 

sweetpea24

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Ok I'll side with Sharky with the berry balance - I don't know much about it but I just thought I'd mention it. Did your vet say why he wouldn't use it Sharky?

It would probably be better to catch the urine midstream - as hard as that sounds with a cat. You can try leaving the litter box clean and empty and see if he pees in it. Don't immerse the strip - get a syringe from the pharmacy and suck up the pee and put a drop on each of the squares. I don't know if the strips come with the reference chart but if you can get the chemstrips, it's on the container.

It's the Gourmet canned which comes in Chicken, Seafood and liver. The second ingredient is Fish (which is not good for UTI), the 5th is Wheat Germ;the 6th is ground extruded soybeans; plus it has Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex which is used as a vitamin K substitute - I've read that this is a cheap and harmful substitute (I could be wrong - read www.dogfoodproject.com).
 

sharky

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Originally Posted by SweetPea24

Ok I'll side with Sharky with the berry balance - I don't know much about it but I just thought I'd mention it. Did your vet say why he wouldn't use it Sharky?

It would probably be better to catch the urine midstream - as hard as that sounds with a cat. You can try leaving the litter box clean and empty and see if he pees in it. Don't immerse the strip - get a syringe from the pharmacy and suck up the pee and put a drop on each of the squares. I don't know if the strips come with the reference chart but if you can get the chemstrips, it's on the container.

It's the Gourmet canned which comes in Chicken, Seafood and liver. The second ingredient is Fish (which is not good for UTI), the 5th is Wheat Germ;the 6th is ground extruded soybeans; plus it has Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex which is used as a vitamin K substitute - I've read that this is a cheap and harmful substitute (I could be wrong - read www.dogfoodproject.com).
She had a one point recommended it and then had lots of recurrences then did some research that pointed to berry's at time causing to big of a swing in ph

The vitamin K is a IMHO jury out issue... when I researched it came up 50/50 in good or bad ... So to me if it is NOT high up I tend to ignore it ... Oddly enough wheat germ is actually beneficial in uti cats.. Soy IMHO is a no no for many many reasons
 
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