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Is This Too Much Bone?

Discussion in 'Raw & Home-Cooked Cat Food' started by Graceful-Lily, Jul 22, 2017.

  1. Graceful-Lily

    Graceful-Lily Thread Starter TCS Member Super Cat

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    Orbiting the Earth. . .
    My bottle of TCFeline raw meat supplement (original mix) is almost done. I planned on buying another one but when I went to order, I noticed that all their bottles say that the supplement is to be added to meat without bone. However, the one store I get my organic raw meat from only has the beef, lamb, pork, duck, etc with bone. Almost all their meats have bone and tripe. So would it be too much if I went ahead and got the TCFeline still? I contacted the company a long time ago about this but still haven't gotten a response. I need to know soon before I run out.

    Oh and the mixtures are mostly muscle meat. It's the 80/10/10. So not that much organ and bone. I usually buy organic beef liver and other organs as a treat on the top sometimes.
     

  2. Ardina

    Ardina TCS Member Super Cat

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    Since the TCFeline supplement mixes contain calcium carbonate, you would be adding too much calcium if your raw meat already has 10% bone. That would likely result in constipation, but more importantly, it would throw off the calcium to phosphorus ratio.

    Have you considered trying Alnutrin? They make a supplement that is meant to be added to ground meat that already has bone and organ in the right ratios.

    The other alternative is to make your own supplement mix, which is actually pretty simple and easy, not to mention quite a bit cheaper.
     
    valentine319, lalagimp and orange&white purraised this.

  3. orange&white

    orange&white TCS Member Top Cat

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    Yes, way too much calcium...by double.

    If you want to buy supplements separately instead of a premix -

    You could get B-Complex, Taurine, Dry-E for $26.00 on Amazon (puts you right over the "Free Shipping" line). You'll want to pick up some Lite Salt too, for iodine:

    Frequently bought together
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  4. Graceful-Lily

    Graceful-Lily Thread Starter TCS Member Super Cat

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    Orbiting the Earth. . .
    But how do I ensure that everything is balanced? That's why I like buying the premixes because I know it's already all there. It makes me worried to try and do the calculations myself because I'm not good at math.

    I think I'm going to try the Alnutrin this time around. It's just that my puppy's meat has to be formulated a certain way too so it gets confusing doing different mixes for both animals.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017

  5. orange&white

    orange&white TCS Member Top Cat

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    The recipe at feline-nutrition.org makes 6.5 pounds of food (1/2 pound of that is water, which I don't add to my mixes anymore)...so 6 pounds of "actual" food.

    These are the recipe supplements for 6 pounds of food (no water):

    4 raw egg yolks

    2000 mg Taurine. This is in addition to the taurine you may have added if you didn't use hearts. Taurine is water soluble so you don't have to worry about your cat getting too much.

    4000 mg wild salmon or wild caught small fish oil

    200 mg Vitamin B Complex
    200 IU Vitamin E

    1 ½ teaspoons (8.4 grams) Lite Iodized Salt

    4 teaspoons (8 grams) Psyllium Husk Powder (optional)

    Read more at Recipe: Feline Nutrition's Easy Raw Cat Food - Feline Nutrition

    -----

    I break that down to every 1.5 pounds and add:

    1 egg yolk
    1 capsule 500mg Taurine
    1 capsule 50mg B-Complex
    50IU E (I'm currently using liquid E which is 10IU per drop)
    3/8ths tsp Lite Salt
    1 capsule 1000mg fish oil (I feed tinned fish once a week instead of fish oil supplement)
    1tsp psyllium husk - Optional (I don't use it)

    By breaking the supplements down to quantities for 1.5 pounds, I round up or down to the nearest 1.5 pounds for supplements. Sometimes I make 1.5 pounds and sometimes I make 9 pound batches, just depending on how much time I have and how much meat I have thawed.

    Also, people here are happy to help if you want to add supplements this way. ;)
     

  6. Graceful-Lily

    Graceful-Lily Thread Starter TCS Member Super Cat

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    Orbiting the Earth. . .
    Thank you so much for this breakdown. But between college and other things, it's easier for me to have ready made premixes. I hope that one day when I'm older, I can do this mix. But for now, I'll try the Alnutrin.

    Are there any other supplements I should know of? It's kind of disappointing because I love TCFeline but they lack variety.
     

  7. orange&white

    orange&white TCS Member Top Cat

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    Nope, no other supplements I can think of. Alnutrin is complete, maybe with some "extras" that aren't entirely necessary, but certainly shouldn't hurt.

    I think you are good to go with your 80/10/10 mix and the Alnutrin. :)
     
    valentine319 and Graceful-Lily purraised this.

  8. Graceful-Lily

    Graceful-Lily Thread Starter TCS Member Super Cat

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    Orbiting the Earth. . .
    I just went to order the bag of Alnutrin but the shipping is so much. It's almost $75 all together after the dollar is converted to Canadian. That's way past my budget. I try not to spend more than $100 a month because of college expenses. I probably won't be able to afford the bag. Any advice?
     

  9. Graceful-Lily

    Graceful-Lily Thread Starter TCS Member Super Cat

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    Orbiting the Earth. . .
    Can't edit my last post but wanted to add this:
    TCFeline usually lasts me 6 months or more but I'm concerned about Alnutrin. If it last more than 3 months than I wouldn't mind buying it but it says that it only makes 44lb of food or 704 oz. Does anyone know how long it would last me?
     

  10. orange&white

    orange&white TCS Member Top Cat

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    Texas
    You were feeding raw, just a different supplier, a while back right? Do you remember how many ounces per day your cat was eating? And remind me again...you only have one cat or more?

    Generally, you can figure that one cat is not going to eat more than 7 ounces per day, so supplement for 704 ounces of food would last 100 days. Probably longer, because your cat is much more likely to eat 4-6 ounces a day.
     

  11. Graceful-Lily

    Graceful-Lily Thread Starter TCS Member Super Cat

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    Orbiting the Earth. . .
    My cats were getting 3oz if I'm correct. I'd have to recheck my math book. There are two cats, Smokey and Felix. I'm not sure if I did the math right though. And sometimes I think I'm feeding them too much because Felix gained a lot of weight since we started feeding them lamb and feed. He use to be slim but now he looks chubby like when he was a young adult. Sometimes, if I'm in a rush, I just put some food out because it's usually gone in 10 minutes. They stopped leaving meat in their bowls since I switched proteins up but they often beg me for more food like they're hungry. Mostly Smokey though. Felix has always been patient with feeding and content with whatever he gets.

    Daisy (the puppy) is also eating most of the food right now. She's eating about 14 tablespoons of food a day according to her weight plus raw meaty bones. So I'm spending almost $200 every 3 - 4 weeks. I feel as though a sacrifice should be made to ease the expenses until she grows older but I'm not sure what that should be. I didn't get a second of sleep last night because I kept trying to figure out how to make this all work.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017

  12. orange&white

    orange&white TCS Member Top Cat

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    Sounds like the only way you'll know for sure how long the Alnutrin will last is to know for sure how much food your cats will eat. Three ounces of food for each cat doesn't sound like very much, unless they are very small cats. You could do a one-week food trial without supplements to carefully track how much food they eat. From there you can easily calculate how much supplement you need to buy...and how long it will last.
     

  13. Graceful-Lily

    Graceful-Lily Thread Starter TCS Member Super Cat

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    Orbiting the Earth. . .
    6 - 9 tablespoons per cat does them fine. I'll see what I can do. Thanks.

    My cats seem to be on the small side because every other cat I've encountered has been way bigger in terms of structure and whatnot.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017

  14. Graceful-Lily

    Graceful-Lily Thread Starter TCS Member Super Cat

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    My mom suggested putting Smokey on dry food to help save some money. I don't know about it. Still can't figure this out. Maybe I should find a boneless meat instead but that would mean changing suppliers and I can't do that since there aren't any more reliable ones.
     

  15. orange&white

    orange&white TCS Member Top Cat

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    Texas
    A reliable supplier of boneless meat is your local grocery store. Buy what's on sale that week. Then you can use the TC Feline that you like. The one with liver powder if your grocer doesn't sell liver, or the premix with liver powder if you can't buy liver at your store.
     

  16. Graceful-Lily

    Graceful-Lily Thread Starter TCS Member Super Cat

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    Orbiting the Earth. . .
    Meat at my local grocery store is too expensive. I already had this problem before. Sourcing my own meat was a problem so I stuck with a supplier. It's easier, it's organic, and it last longer. I could never buy enough food at the grocery store like what I get at my supplier. $100+ for organic raw beef, lamb, chicken, turkey, duck, pork, and seafood I believe. One package of raw meat at the grocery store is about $15 for 3lb or so. Maybe I should buy ready made raw. Some brand like instant raw or something. I don't know right now. I have a budget and my mom also contributes a lot of money but she told me that she can't do it anymore.
     

  17. valentine319

    valentine319 TCS Member Super Cat

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    Unless you find a local supplier of alnutrin then buying supplements and adding are the easiest. I know it seems intimidating at first but if you can make meatloaf you can mix a slurry into it.

    Check this link.
    Easy Raw Diet Feeding for the Busy Person - Feline Nutrition

    Other than that maybe contact a distributor like Hare Today and ask if they can ship to Canada for Alnutrin. It never hurts to try. I know some say no Canadian shipping but if you just explain it's just for alnutrin there may be an exception.
     
    Ardina, orange&white and Graceful-Lily purraised this.

  18. orange&white

    orange&white TCS Member Top Cat

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    Texas
    Well I can't afford organic, grass-fed meats for myself or my pets, but fresh feed-lot meat is healthier than kibble by a long shot if you're preferring the benefits of raw. I've bought chicken as low as 38 cents a pound, pork roasts at $1/lb, beef as low as $2/lb but beef is usually available at $3 or less with sale shopping. Organ meats like liver and kidney are $1.50/lb.

    At the end of the day, it's all about buying the best that you can afford.
     

  19. Graceful-Lily

    Graceful-Lily Thread Starter TCS Member Super Cat

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    Orbiting the Earth. . .
    Thank you. I'll see what I can do but I've tried ordering overseas or across boarders and shipping is almost always more than the actual product itself. I was hoping that I could Alnutrin because my puppy also gets the same type of food plus additions because the vet said she needs extra nutrients.
     

  20. Graceful-Lily

    Graceful-Lily Thread Starter TCS Member Super Cat

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    Orbiting the Earth. . .
    I understand that. Everything was fine until my mom bought the dog. Food use to last almost 3 months for just the two cats and now it seems like it barely last a month. I'm going to look into supplementing myself since that seems to be my only other option unless I bite the bullet and get the Alnutrin.
     

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