Is this starving stray pregnant, or has she had her kittens?/ Thomas

[checkers]

I just went searching for a kitten forum and found this wonderful site. Responses to others' questions have been very helpful.

Thirteen nights ago an emaciated, boney, starving young cat appeared in my yard. It didn't take much coaxing and I fed it. (Fortunately I had cat food from recently fostering a cat.) The poor thing was ravenous and wolfed down bowl after bowl of food until its sunken sides were bulging.

I took the cat to my local vet to do a microchip ID check. The result was: no microchip, and a pregnant female. The vet said she could have already had the kittens as there was milk in her teats. So plans to take her to a local refuge were dashed as I had to take her home in case kittens were somewhere in the neighbourhood needing their mother.  The vet said she would probably bring the kittens to me if I continued to feed her. 

She has returned nightly, consuming several bowls of wet and dry food a night, and milk (lactose-free). She is affectionate, loves chin and neck scratches, but won't let me pick her up and doesn't like her lower back being patted. I can't feel kitten movement and the same pattern has continued - hollowed sides in the morning and bulging sides after dinner.

An internet site said milk comes into the teats two days before a cat gives birth. If that's right, the kittens were either born when I found the mother, or within two days of being born.  She's increasingly spending longer periods at my house, and today has spent most of the day here so if there are kittens, they're not getting much attention. 

I have had plenty to do with adult cats, but not pregnant females or kittens so I'm at a loss. Apparently in some cats an ultrasound is needed if it's not obvious if kittens have been born.  I've  set up a birthing box but she's not interested in it. I see from your forum here, though, that they may not be interested  - if at all - until the last minute.

After another massive dinner last night, this morning when she arrived I could see for the first time her teats protruding and the fur around them is no longer covering them. Until now, they've been hard to see (yet the vet said they had milk in them 10 days ago).

From your experience, would anyone feel they know from this information if the kittens have been born? Do the teats suddenly appear prominently and protruded before the kittens are actually born?

I have arranged to hire a tracking device in 3 days' time to see if I can find out where she goes when she leaves my home in the hope that it's to her kittens, if they're born.

Many thanks for any advice you might have.

 

[StefanZ]

 
I have arranged to hire a tracking device in 3 days' time to see if I can find out where she goes when she leaves my home in the hope that it's to her kittens, if they're born.

Wow!  Is there such an device?  Swell!   Please tell more about it...

Otherwise my advice would be you try to follow her, talking sweetly and friendly...   I know cases where this strategy worked.   At first they may try to lead you astray, but after a while, Bingo!

The situation you describe isnt that unusual, and yes, its a dilemma and pure guess.  The advice is to do as you do, trying to go on both traces.

For you its not big problem, as you dare to let her out.  And she voluntarily leaves.

It were worse if she is semiferal and you dont dare to let her out, because she perhaps wont go back, or get into dangers - say lots of predators around your place.

In the wild, mom is not always with her kittens 24/7.    She must go out and seek food, and may leave them alone even several hours.   Of course, having such friends, them kittens dont really need any enemies.  The less robust and the unlucky do perish...  But these who survive are usually made of tough wood, heal quickly etc...

And now they are a little bigger, and manage somewhat to keep their own warmth.

So proceed as you are doing, work on fostering her and planning on adopting her, and work on finding her kittens if there are any.

The only problem with this is, if she may get pregnant anew.  Cats arent protected by lactacing in any way.  So being loose outside and not spayed, she will get impregnated...

I hope my rant did help you some in your thoughts.

Tx for caring!

Good luck!

 

[checkers]

Thanks so much for your advice.  Yes, there are tracking devices for pets! Wonderful innovation. I recall seeing them promoted by the RSPCA here in Australia last year so did some internet searches a couple of days ago. Basically there are two types - GPS and radio. They are attached to  your pet's collar.  The cat devices should be under 40g. The one I'm getting is 30g as this little cat is quite petite.  I just had a look at review sites and here is one of several in the USA if you want to get more info:  http://www.vetstreet.com/our-pet-experts/lost-pet-tech-comparing-cat-and-dog-tracking-collars   I have no experience with them so can't recommend any particular type.

The problem with following her is that she doesn't leave me while I'm with her. I would normally keep her inside the house to avoid further pregnancies, but fear I'd be keeping her from kittens. It's only after I set her up outside at night that she disappears after I've gone to bed.  Fortunately I'm not in a neighbourhood where she'd be faced with many predators, but there's obviously a male cat out there somewhere.

The vet said she was obviously domesticated, as he was able to pull her around to examine her - but then he had a nurse assisting. (I wasn't there for the examination.)  She's very reluctant to let me touch her tummy to feel for kittens, although I've managed a few times and can't feel any movement.

I did wonder if anyone knew whether the teats can be prominent and protruding prior to kittens being born, or did this only happen after birth? 

Thanks again!

 

[Sarthur2]

Why don't you take her back to the vet for an x-ray? It will quickly reveal if she has kittens inside her. If they are not born yet, you can forego the tracking & bring the cat inside to live and birth her babies in a safe environment. It seems the most expedient way to go. And the stray that I took in recently had very engorged nipples for weeks before birth. She also licked them so much that the fur around them disappeared, which makes it easier for the kittens to get to them. It honestly sounds like she has not had her kittens yet. I went through the same concerns recently, and the x-ray answered my questions, down to how many she was carrying - 4. Born one week ago today. Mama kitty is also young, and was huge, but took 12 more days of pregnancy after the vet trip. Bless you for feeding & caring for this pitiful stray. Please keep us informed.

 

[checkers]

Thank you so much Sarthur2!  Your news of the stray you took in having engorged nipples for weeks answers my question.This one has had milk in her teats for at least 2 weeks (that's when the vet discovered it) and thought the kittens may be born, but another member of this group said she had had cats whose milk had come weeks before the birth. So putting all this together, I think you are right.  Kittens are yet to come.  Okay, I'll bite the bullet and pay for an x-ray. Your advice is very much appreciated, and I'll keep you informed.

 

[catwoman707]

One way to tell if she is nursing currently is by looking for missing fur around her lower nipples. Nursing kids wear the fur off fairly soon after they start nursing.

It's uncommon for her to be engorged with milk but not have babies, since colostrum comes first. 

They would more likely be flatter to her body, slightly swollen perhaps but not hanging down or much away from her body. 

 

[checkers]

Many thanks!  Yes, she does have that fur missing around the nipples, especially those closest to her hind legs.  But another respondent said the mothers can do that themselves with constant bathing of their nipples.

Three nights ago they were protruding (but not hanging down) and this morning the are much flatter.

I'm leaning more to thinking she hasn't had the kittens yet.  I've rung the vet about getting her x-rayed and am waiting for a call back.

I just hope her tiny frame can cope with giving birth if they are yet to come.

She's getting more and more affectionate towards me and last night I found her trying to get in an overnight bag that was lying on the floor.  She also for the first time briefly investigated the box I have prepared for her.

I'll keep you posted.  Thanks again.

 

[catwoman707]

Nah, moms won't continuously lick their nipples bare like that.

I think she has kittens already, who knows, she may already be prego again as well.

I said to check the lower nipples for fur loss because those are the most used ones.

Also, they were protruding but now are flatter makes me think she may have abandoned them for the most part, for companionship with you. It's possible.

She was a dumped kitty, once owned, and it's probably been a very tough road for her, and now suddenly she is cared about again. I wonder...........

I tend to think she had kittens already. Perhaps several weeks or a couple months ago even and is done with them mostly, which would be fine knowing they aren't being neglected, but is surely going to be prego again.

 

[checkers]

lost kitty 23 03 05 on side.jpg

• checkers
• Mar 23, 2015

lost kitty 23 03 05 teats (green arrows x 2) showi

• checkers
• Mar 23, 2015

lost kitty 23 03 05 teats (green arrows x 2) showi

• checkers
• Mar 23, 2015

I've just had a call from my vet. He's formed a similar opinion to you @catwoman707.  Putting all the information together, he thinks she has had her kittens, and may well have abandoned them now (she hasn't left my place for about 18 hours now). He also thinks she could be pregnant again. He told me not to waste time and money on an ultrasound (which he'd recommend over an x-ray), but to just have her spayed.  He said even though it would be preferable to keep her indoors for a few days after surgery, she could still return to her kittens after being spayed if internal dissolving stitches were used.

When you mentioned 'lower nipples', I wasn't sure if you meant closest to the hind legs.  I assumed so. I managed to get some photos of her nipples this morning so have included them in case they're useful.

I'm thinking now my best bet would be to get the cat tracker and hope she returns to her kittens at least one more time so I can find them and take them to the refuge.

If only they could talk!

Many thanks for sharing your experience and expertise.

 

[StefanZ]

Your vet sounds as a good and wise one...     Do as you plan. If you have this tracking device, use it.  If it doenst give results, proceed witht his spaying.

Semiferales / cats who managed to live alone for a longer time, are tough ones, with good healing meat.  They must have, being the survivors.  These of bad immune system and of bad healing meat, do perish before they become survivors.... Its tough out there!    Such is the sadly truth, as we all know...

I mean, she will be fit for fight again after at most three days, while a typical home girl would need recovalescence of perhaps one full week.

A real semiferal may be let out again after even shorter time.

Good luck!

 

[checkers]

Thank you @StefanZ!  I'm thinking this little momma is starting to enjoy the domestic life, quite a lot! I do hope it's not at the expense of her kittens, but hopefully she'll go back to them once I have the tracker on her tomorrow.

 

[Sarthur2]

It will be interesting to know what the vet finds when he performs the spay surgery.

 

[catwoman707]

Glad the vet has the same point of view as I do, after seeing the pics it confirms my thinking, those are nursed on nipples.

All we can do is hope that she recently finished nursing her litter, rather than abandoning them, which is not so common in cats.

Once she nurses them, it would be highly unusual for her to abandon them, that is, unless they have all died or been eaten by racoons.

Which may also be the reason why.

 

[checkers]

Thanks @sarthur2  and @catwoman707  . I was hoping if she had had her kittens - and you have confirmed that she has - that she would bring them to me. Maybe they're too far away. The animal refuge suggested someone may have found them and taken them to a refuge. Fortunately we don't have racoons here in Australia. The only risk I can think of in my neighbourhood would be crows, if the kittens are very tiny. I think the major risk for them is abandonment.  I've alerted neighbours to keep an eye out.

This morning, for the first time, the cat's teats were hanging down and quite floppy.  I don't know if that indicates anything?

She was also investigating in cupboards. I wondered if she might be looking for her kittens.

I hope to get the tracker today, although I do think I'll be wasting my time because I don't think she's going to her kittens anymore. 

I've greatly valued your input. Thanks again.

 

[Sarthur2]

It sounds as though she is engorged with milk that will now have to dry up, and that she is searching for her kittens - how sad! They were probably preyed upon, or picked up by humans who heard their cries. If they were independent enough, she probably would have led them to you. Unless you want foster kittens from the refuge for her to care for ... Have you asked them if kittens were brought to them in the last day or two & if they know where they were found? Good luck with your new sweet cat!

 

[checkers]

Thank you sarthur2. The mother has not come in tonight yet (it's after 10.30pm as I type this) so I hope that means she has gone back to tend to her kittens.  I picked up a pet tracker today and a collar for her (she is going to hate me!), so hope she hasn't disappeared on me now!

I had thought of contacting the local refuges (there are quite a few of them)  but the time span would be quite wide - pehaps several weeks - so they may not be too impressed with a question like that given the number of kittens they receive. Still, I might give it a go.Thanks for the prompt!

 I had wondered too only in the last day, when I saw the state of her teats, whether she might feed an orphaned litter but hesitated due to the risk that her own litter might still be out there and a new litter might stop her from going back to her own.

Between the  pet tracker and the refuge ring-around, I might get some more information soon.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[Sarthur2]

Please do - this is most interesting! I am rooting for her kittens. I hope she has gone back to them & that they are okay wherever they are! Maybe she will bring them closer to you one by one by the scruff of their necks. That would be ideal. My stray's kittens are 9 days old today & starting to open their eyes. They are all 4 healthy & happy, and so is mama kitty. I am attaching a picture of the kittens & mom!

image.jpg

• Sarthur2
• Mar 24, 2015

 

[Sarthur2]

@checkers - oops, the picture of the litter did not load. Here it is:

image.jpg

• Sarthur2
• Mar 24, 2015

 

[checkers]

Oh, what gorgeous kittens @sarthur2   They are so plump and healthy looking.  And what a protective mother cat.  You must be so pleased.

My mysterious little stray momma cat has still not turned up tonight. I hope it's a sign she's with her kittens, as she must be hungry. It's almost 1am and I'll have to turn in, so will leave out some food for her.

 

[catwoman707]

While it's possible, it would be unlikely that she has actually lost her kittens (can't find them) unless of course they were removed.

Then again not sure where you are, when kitten season actually began, but here, it's safe to assume that moms with litters have just recently had them, in the last week or two anyway.

Perhaps they are done nursing............(?)

These are much more likely than her actually abandoning them, I would say. Not like a mom to nurse for a while then leave them on their own unless either they are grown enough or they were taken/killed.