Is This Breeder Trustworthy?

[Luvyna]

I am currently looking into getting a Siberian cat from a breeder but I am quite inexperienced with getting animals from breeders as my family has only owned former stray mixed-breed cats in the past, so I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice.

The breeder's website is here: Hypoallergenic Siberian Cats & Kittens in Canada

I filled out an application and acquired about available cats and kittens and the breeder responded saying that I need to put down a $300 non-refundable deposit to reserve a cat in a future litter. This deposit is necessary before I can even visit the cattery, or else a visit of 1 hr or less without a commitment to buy costs $100. Is this normal for breeders?

In general, should I expect to need to pay before I can even see the cat I will be buying in the future, or their parents and the environment they are raised in?

 

[abyeb]

So, their website says that they’re registered with CFA, TICA, and CCA, but they don’t list any show credentials for their cats, which makes me a bit suspicious. Even if you don’t plan on showing your cat, reputable breeders show their cats regularly, so they have titles like Grand Champion, Regional Winner, even Breed Winner or National Winner. Those honors earned through showing shows that they breed to standard, and put a lot of time and effort into their breeding program.

 

[Luvyna]

Thanks for the input abyeb!

It looks like they do show two of their cats here:
https://www.siberiancats-bc.com/max
cats | Teddy

I'm mostly just wary about putting down a deposit before having a chance to see the cattery or the breeding cats. Maybe better to just move onto a different breeder with different policies about viewings and deposits.

 

[epona]

Whenever I have adopted a pedigree cat from a breeder it has been agreed after a visit to the breeder - and an interview process that worked both ways during that visit, ie. we asked one another questions. I paid a deposit at the end of that visit for the kitten that I wanted and the breeder was happy for me to adopt - that was put in writing in a receipt. I didn't pay anything before meeting with the breeder and would be wary of doing so.

Even if it was a really popular breeder with a long waiting list, I would want to meet with the breeder and any prospective feline buddy before committing to anything - my cats are the loves of my life, but any element of choice in them coming home with me was largely exercised by them, not me I'd need to feel a connection before committing, I'd be looking for my best friend for the next (hopefully!) 16+ years after all.

 

[posiepurrs]

To me asking for money first is a red flag. I breed Persians and have never asked for a deposit before the buyer came to see the kitten. I did know of a breeder who charged people to be put on a waiting list, but I think that is wrong. You are taking money before a kitten is even conceived and with living beings there are no guarantees.

 

[sivyaleah]

The breeder that I'm on a wait list with used to take a deposit way in advance to secure your place for one of their kittens, but recently changed that policy and has decided not to, feeling it wasn't the right thing to do. They have no shortage of people who desire their kittens, so no need to have the money beforehand.

One thing that jumped out at me is they are a "closed" cattery. Do they have enough male to female ratios to avoid inbreeding or keep the risk as low as possible? I know some breeders are concerned about the possibility of spreading disease if you bring in other cats to increase the gene pool but reputable breeders certainly are constantly testing to ensure the health of their cats and that shouldn't be an issue. Again, the breeder I'm now on the wait list with regularly partners with other Maine Coon breeder to continuously improve upon the qualities of the breed and the only way this can be done is to bring in new "blood" as it were. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this point.

 

[GoldyCat]

So, their website says that they’re registered with CFA, TICA, and CCA, but they don’t list any show credentials for their cats, which makes me a bit suspicious. Even if you don’t plan on showing your cat, reputable breeders show their cats regularly, so they have titles like Grand Champion, Regional Winner, even Breed Winner or National Winner. Those honors earned through showing shows that they breed to standard, and put a lot of time and effort into their breeding program.

I didn't look at all of their cats, but the males I did check out all have TICA titles. The females were not listed with any titles.

I would still be wary of having to pay a large non-refundable deposit before even meeting the breeder.

 

[Willowy]

I can kind of see their point about visits, because you don't want people treating you like you run a kitten petting zoo. Is she willing to send you pictures and talk about her cats, without a deposit? If not, I would pass. But if she's willing to talk about the cats, talk about future breedings, send you pictures of the cats and cattery, etc., I think it's fairly reasonable to expect a commitment before allowing a visit.

 

[Luvyna]

Thank you to everyone for the advice and sharing your experiences! It's a big relief to me to know that it's not an industry standard for breeders require a non-refundable deposit before allowing visits. While I can understand that breeders might not want to waste time on people who just want to come and pet kittens or risk visitors transmitting infections, I'm personally uncomfortable about putting down that much money before I can meet the breeder and parent cats/kittens and observe the cattery environment.

The comments in this thread have confirmed my bad gut feeling about this place so I've decided to move on in my search.

sivyaleah I actually hadn't considered the thing bringing in new blood before in my search so thanks for bringing it up. I'll keep an eye out for that as well in the future.

 

[sivyaleah]

Thank you to everyone for the advice and sharing your experiences! It's a big relief to me to know that it's not an industry standard for breeders require a non-refundable deposit before allowing visits. While I can understand that breeders might not want to waste time on people who just want to come and pet kittens or risk visitors transmitting infections, I'm personally uncomfortable about putting down that much money before I can meet the breeder and parent cats/kittens and observe the cattery environment.

The comments in this thread have confirmed my bad gut feeling about this place so I've decided to move on in my search.

sivyaleah I actually hadn't considered the thing bringing in new blood before in my search so thanks for bringing it up. I'll keep an eye out for that as well in the future.

Just to clarify my point - I'm not saying a breeder should always utilize other breeders cats for each mating. I would assume the ideal situation is to have enough of your own cats so that there's enough diversity to avoid the potential of inbreeding as much as possible. But, to be smart enough to recognize when you could use more diversity or, when you are trying to get a particular type of attribute which you can't achieve without increasing the gene pool.

Which brings me to another thing I noticed on that breeders site you were considering. When I looked at the pedigree certificates of the adult cats, there wasn't any way to click on them to go backward and check to see if the listed sires and dams are real information. The online certificates of the breeder I'm working has the ability to click on each and every cat's sire and dam going back literally generations, so you can literally see every single piece of information about their heritage. I was able to trace cat family backgrounds as far back as 1969 in one instance recently. And, many of the cats I was easily able to find pictures of online also since there were so many champions through the years. It was quite simple to see that this breeder is being truthful, honest and transparent with the information on their site.

Certificates and other information can be easily manipulated. I'm not saying that breeder did this, but I have seen some fishy looking things on breeder websites such as listing females still breeding at ages WAY too old to still be having kittens for instance (I didn't like that this breeder mentioned they "had" to allow one of their females to have another litter even though they knew it wasn't a good idea).

Anyway I think you made the right decision. Always listen to your head over your heart. There will always be other breeders who fit your criteria for the type of cat that you are looking for, plenty of them who are honest and happy to work with you. You'll know the right "fit" for you. Sometimes it just takes a while longer than you'd. Better to wait and feel good about the decision than to always wonder if you made the right one.

 

[posiepurrs]

I have to admit I did not look at the site, but want to comment on the statement that it is a closed cattery. That may have been taken out of context here. Most of the breeders I know have a closed cattery (including me) - meaning they do not offer stud service. Some will work together but it is fairly rare in the US for this to happen. It in no way means I will not allow people to come look at kittens but I need to get to know them somewhat before I allow them one of my kittens.

 

[sivyaleah]

I have to admit I did not look at the site, but want to comment on the statement that it is a closed cattery. That may have been taken out of context here. Most of the breeders I know have a closed cattery (including me) - meaning they do not offer stud service. Some will work together but it is fairly rare in the US for this to happen. It in no way means I will not allow people to come look at kittens but I need to get to know them somewhat before I allow them one of my kittens.

Thanks for clarifying that point. The breeder in question doesn't seem to have English as a first language so it was difficult to ascertain exactly what was meant on the site.