Is this adorable little boy a Bengal?

StefanZ

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Some of my remarks into the fry.
Its apparent the kitten has a bengal ancestry. If purebred or mix may be discussed.

The problem is, the father is supposed to be a spotted / rosetted pointed snow bengal.

The kitten not being pointed is no problem, as the point gene is recessive, so the kitten shouldnt be pointed, even if a carrier.

But. All tabby is dominant, but some are more dominant than others:
Spotted / rosetted tabby dominates over classic / marbled tabby. So the kitten should be spotted...

So unless you decide these marbles are really somewhat detoriated rosettes, and not marbles -
there is a high probability there is some another father, and the kittens has marbles from his purebred momma...

You can perhaps compare with the marbles of momma? are his marbles a copy of hers, or do the differ quite a lot, having similiarities to rosettes??
 
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Kosta

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Some of my remarks into the fry.
Its apparent the kitten has a bengal ancestry. If purebred or mix may be discussed.

The problem is, the father is supposed to be a spotted / rosetted pointed snow bengal.

The kitten not being pointed is no problem, as the point gene is recessive, so the kitten shouldnt be pointed, even if a carrier.

But. All tabby is dominant, but some are more dominant than others:
Spotted / rosetted tabby dominates over classic / marbled tabby. So the kitten should be spotted...

So unless you decide these marbles are really somewhat detoriated rosettes, and not marbles -
there is a high probability there is some another father, and the kittens has marbles from his purebred momma...

You can perhaps compare with the marbles of momma? are his marbles a copy of hers, or do the differ quite a lot, having similiarities to rosettes??
Thanks for your post!

Could you please explain me better your point?

As far as I understood (prior to your post) the kitten should be a rosetted one, not a marbled one.
This is also coherent with your statement "Spotted / rosetted tabby dominates over classic / marbled tabby. So the kitten should be spotted..."

The mather is a classic marbled. The mother coat is pretty different as she has long black stripes (classic marbled I would say). This kitten instead seems to be rosetted, with big black spots, not stripes. I do not have an experienced eye so I may be wrong. But I would say the kitten is spotted, and rosettes are starting to form?

The alleged father is a rosetted snow bengal indeed.

So, as far as I understand:

Brown is dominant to white = the kitten will be brown (supposing no white ancestry in the mother)
Rosetted is dominant to marble = the kitten will be rosetted

So the kitten should be brown rosetted?

It is also evident (now that I know marbled is recessive) that the father has marbled ancestry as the brother of this kitten is a brown marbled. In his case, it is evident he is marbled and not spotted/rosetted.

To be honest, I like more rosetted bengals with few big spots than a lot of small ones. I may had understand that in shows this is not preferred, but I like them more :) So I would be amazed if this kitten would develop such a coat with big rosetted spots.

Please feel free to reply in random order, as my questions are also randomly distributed.. :)
 

StefanZ

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nay, wjhite is dominant over everything else!
 
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Kosta

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nay, wjhite is dominant over everything else!
This is the contrary of what I understood.

I understood that the "snow" gene is recessive in Bengals, by searching online, some examples:
Link_1
Link_2

So now I am very interested on the topic. Is the snow gene recessive or dominant over brown?

If it was dominant over brown than it would be suspicious and anti-statistic that all the kittens are brown as the mother even if the father carries the brown gene
 

Maurey

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Snow gene = pointed gene =/= white

white is almost always dominant, points are recessive.
 
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Kosta

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Snow gene = pointed gene =/= white

white is almost always dominant, points are recessive.
Thanks for the explanation. I am new to all of this apart from the high school studies.. like 12 years ago..

Just to be clear, the (alleged) father is not entirely white, he is simal to this cat (picture found online):


So it is coherent with what I was told, snow bengal mated with brown bengal not carrying the snow gene will only gives brown bengals, right?

Said that, from the latest picture of the kitten would you say he is spotted or marbled? The lighter parts within the spots are the so-called rosettes starting to form? New pictures in 2 10 days/ 2 weeks from today :D
 

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So can you spot anything not compatible with a Bengal? I'm not experienced at all and all I know was read on the internet.. so your feedback is very precious to me!
What I can see so far as such a young kitten and things and colour havent developed yet he has the almond shaped eyes, ears wide apart on the head, he should have all black paw pads and black tail tip.
Didnt read your question properly..this is what he should have as a bengal
 
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Maurey

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Thanks for the explanation. I am new to all of this apart from the high school studies.. like 12 years ago..

Just to be clear, the (alleged) father is not entirely white, he is simal to this cat (picture found online):


So it is coherent with what I was told, snow bengal mated with brown bengal not carrying the snow gene will only gives brown bengals, right?

Said that, from the latest picture of the kitten would you say he is spotted or marbled? The lighter parts within the spots are the so-called rosettes starting to form? New pictures in 2 10 days/ 2 weeks from today :D
if you breed a pointed cat to a cat that doesn’t carry the point gene, you’ll only get point gene carriers, and no cats with points. The kitten looks to be developing marbling, rather than spotting — you can see the open bullseye pattern developing. A spotted cat can, theoretically, produce marbled young, but only if the spotted cat has one copy of spotted, and one copy of marble. If that’s the case, though, the pattern of the spots would clearly follow the marble pattern — the spotting gene only covers the present tabby pattern.
this diagram from messybeast kind of illustrates what I mean

1620207695939.jpeg
 
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Kosta

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What I can see so far as such a young kitten and things and colour havent developed yet he has the almond shaped eyes, ears wide apart on the head, he should have all black paw pads and black tail tip.
Didnt read your question properly..this is what he should have as a bengal
I know he has the black tip from a recent video the breeder sent me (I don't want to upload it for privacy reasons as there is the breeder in the video also! :) ).
I will look to see the paw pads!

From your message, it's not clear if you mean that, for now, "so far so good"? :D


if you breed a pointed cat to a cat that doesn’t carry the point gene, you’ll only get point gene carriers, and no cats with points. The kitten looks to be developing marbling, rather than spotting — you can see the open bullseye pattern developing. A spotted cat can, theoretically, produce marbled young, but only if the spotted cat has one copy of spotted, and one copy of marble. If that’s the case, though, the pattern of the spots would clearly follow the marble pattern — the spotting gene only covers the present tabby pattern.
this diagram from messybeast kind of illustrates what I mean

View attachment 379136
In this case, would that mean that rosettes are not genetically possible when you bred a snow bengal with a brown one?
 

Maurey

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In this case, would that mean that rosettes are not genetically possible when you bred a snow bengal with a brown one?
Rosettes have nothing to do with colour. They’re a tabby gene modifier, more or less, and tabby is an agouti modifier, more or less. Depends on the pattern the parents have. If the supposed father is rosetted, and both the parents of the father are rosetted, there’s no way that he’s the father, as the kitten would HAVE to be rosetted. If none of the siblings of your kitten are rosetted, there’s very little chance the rosetted snow is the father.
 
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Kosta

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So far so good..lol
:)

Rosettes have nothing to do with colour. They’re a tabby gene modifier, more or less, and tabby is an agouti modifier, more or less. Depends on the pattern the parents have. If the supposed father is rosetted, and both the parents of the father are rosetted, there’s no way that he’s the father, as the kitten would HAVE to be rosetted. If none of the siblings of your kitten are rosetted, there’s very little chance the rosetted snow is the father.
Thanks again for the precious explanation.

What I saw from the pictures (with my inexperienced eyes) is that this kitten is indeed developing rosettes. Don't you think so? More time is required to understand?
 

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What I saw from the pictures (with my inexperienced eyes) is that this kitten is indeed developing rosettes. Don't you think so? More time is required to understand?
He still has the kitten fluffies..pattern and color will begin to show in their true form in a couple of months
 

Maurey

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He looks like he has marbling — he has a bullseye pattern, which a rosetted cat would not.

here are some pictures of spotted/rosetted bengal kittens from google — notice how the spots and rosetted aren’t connected in a spiral.

1620209430898.png

1620209493145.jpeg

1620209510157.jpeg



compared to a marbled kitten

1620209744021.jpeg

1620209779812.jpeg

that said, you’ll be able to tell for certain in a few more weeks. He’s either a messy marbled kitten, or one with pet-quality rosetting. When they’re super fuzzy, it’s not going to be super distinct.
 

StefanZ

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Snow bengals do look whitish. Why, I dont know. But its no true white color. And thus, its not dominant...

Snow bengals are essentially pointed bengals, and usually they are rosetted.
 

StefanZ

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snow bengal mated with brown bengal not carrying the snow gene will only gives brown bengals, right?
Yes, because the white in snow bengals isnt true white, even they are much more white than in say, the typical natural light brownish color of points.

So the white will disappear yes. But aside of this, the pointed cat carries also its own true color, we see it typically in the face masque, the pointed parts, and on the tabby markings. Its often black, blue, red, creme... These colors are more or less dominant.

THESE colors may be inherited by the kitten, even if there is a tendency kittens will get mommas colors..
 
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Kosta

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Rosettes have nothing to do with colour. They’re a tabby gene modifier, more or less, and tabby is an agouti modifier, more or less. Depends on the pattern the parents have. If the supposed father is rosetted, and both the parents of the father are rosetted, there’s no way that he’s the father, as the kitten would HAVE to be rosetted. If none of the siblings of your kitten are rosetted, there’s very little chance the rosetted snow is the father.
I'm re-reading your comments and trying to make some knowledge out of them;

The alleged father has to carry the marble gene, since one brother of this kitten is marbled. In the case of this brother, it is really evident he is marbled (beside the clear marble pattern, no signs of color gradients at all inside the black parts of the coat, which I was referring to as rosettes for "my" kitten :) ).

if you breed a pointed cat to a cat that doesn’t carry the point gene, you’ll only get point gene carriers, and no cats with points. The kitten looks to be developing marbling, rather than spotting — you can see the open bullseye pattern developing. A spotted cat can, theoretically, produce marbled young, but only if the spotted cat has one copy of spotted, and one copy of marble. If that’s the case, though, the pattern of the spots would clearly follow the marble pattern — the spotting gene only covers the present tabby pattern.
this diagram from messybeast kind of illustrates what I mean

View attachment 379136
Thanks for this point, which again I was not aware of. So, as the (alleged) father carries the marble gene for the above reasons, we may expect this kitten to have the spots to develop into a spiral pattern or something like that? THAT WOULD BE COOL :loveeyes:

As far as I understand, in any case we need some more weeks to understand how the coat is developing. I would prefer the spots to have rosettes inside.. we'll see.


Yes, because the white in snow bengals isnt true white, even they are much more white than in say, the typical natural light brownish color of points.

So the white will disappear yes. But aside of this, the pointed cat carries also its own true color, we see it typically in the face masque, the pointed parts, and on the tabby markings. Its often black, blue, red, creme... These colors are more or less dominant.

THESE colors may be inherited by the kitten, even if there is a tendency kittens will get mommas colors..
Thanks :) I was a little worried in the beginning as the whole story was crashing if the snow was dominant lol
 

cataholic07

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Please get pics of the parents. We need to see them to confirm if its possible he's 100% purebred.

I would be very wary about buying a cheap bengal to be honest and completely hope you have fully researched the breed as they are not for everyone. With no other cats you can expect to play them out 2-3 hours multiple times a day. A ferris wheel I would recommend as well and getting tons of environment enrichment.
 
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Kosta

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Please get pics of the parents. We need to see them to confirm if its possible he's 100% purebred.

I would be very wary about buying a cheap bengal to be honest and completely hope you have fully researched the breed as they are not for everyone. With no other cats you can expect to play them out 2-3 hours multiple times a day. A ferris wheel I would recommend as well and getting tons of environment enrichment.
Thanx for your advices, I've already started to build many different toys and structures for the cat to play with. I'm building a "cat gym" with a 2m high cat tower made out of wood branches taken from the forest located 5 minutes from my apartment, and I'll also integrate the tower with 5 cm diameter juta ropes for the cat to climb even higher. I bought different toys to be put in different locations of the "cat gym" hoping to make the cat entertained. Plus we have bought some other "standard" toys and I'll also build some interactive ones.

I do not plan to just throw all of these toys to the cat on the first day but something like a new toy per week / 10 days or so.

We'll also go trekking with him and if all of this is not enough I'll buy/assemble a cat wheel. DIY assembling of moving parts is challenging so I'll see if just buy one.

For what regards the pictures of the parents, I should ask to the breeder and that would be suspicious, I do not want the breeder to think I do not want the cat anymore (like I'm investigating the whole ancestry or so..)
Moreover, at this point we just can't wait to take him home, we like him more and more with the weeks passing! By these news pictures, he is at almost 7 weeks, it seems he is developing some big rosettes? I like the pattern a lot..

I've taken these pictures from 2 videos the breeder sent me so not super focused :D

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Let me know your feedbacks!
 
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Kosta

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Hello there :) the kitten is now at 9/10 weeks, and I'm gonna take him home in around 3 weeks from today!!

I've received an other video from the breeder, she told me the little kitten is always running and jumping around so not really easy to take pictures and videos, I was able to take these frames from the video:

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Do you guys have any feedback for me? I know it's impossible to certify a cat is a Bengal without the Pedigree but can you spot something unusual for a Bengal cat?

We can't wait to take him home by the way :D I am a dog person but oh boy if I like him! I hope the cat gym and toys and walking will be enough LOL
 
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