is there hope to socialize this feral?

[tutubean]

Early last year, we started to notice an influx of a few seemingly feral (very avoidant and clean) cats in our suburban neighborhood. We never saw any kittens, but a few months later we saw three new cats, all juveniles (at least 4 months old by their size) who looked exactly like 2 of the known ferals. Now the original cats are gone and we're left with the three littermates, who are likely around 18-20mo old.

I am not usually in this house (my parent's house) or I would have acted on this sooner...
(as a side note, I need to look into TNR for the other cats in this neighborhood, as I've seen no other tipped ears).

The littermates are used to us as we're often outside gardening. They often watch us from bushes, but run away if we get too close. Two of them are still avoidant, but one of them is far less avoidant. This one has a tipped left ear while the others do not, so we're assuming it's been TNRd and may be a reason it is more open to the idea of a human carer. (I'm trying to find out who in my area might have done the TNR).

The tipped cat is small (~10 lbs) and assumed female. All cats are healthy-looking and clean. Starting in March we started to see the tipped cat much more often than before. One day I took out a tiny bit of deli turkey to see if she'd take it, and she did, coming within a few feet of me but, as expected, running away with it to eat alone.

Fast forward to this week. We're feeding her canned food in a bowl we used for my (passed) cat. Occasional crunchy treats to get those teeth clean. She loves the treats, but also likes the canned food. We'll often catch her sitting in wait by the back door. Some days she's hungrier than others. Some days she trots toward me as soon as she sees me. Some days it's a slow approach. She lightly hisses almost every time I approach with the food bowl, but her ears are never back always forward. (Same when my mother does it). But twice now, she's mewed at me, very long and high-pitched sound, when I'm about to set down food. Sometimes she won't eat unless I step back. Sometimes she'll dive right in. Sometimes I have to actually go inside for her to feel safe. She always maintains a 2-3 feet distance, but she doesn't flee from me anymore. In fact, a few times now she's actually followed me (from the mailbox to the front door, for instance).

While these cats grew up around our house this interaction is all very new, so I want to know from those who are experienced if there's any hope for socialization. She's clearly different than her littermates in her trust of me--might be that she's spayed, might just be her personality. But after only two months of feeding we are certainly not at a touch tolerance point. As the weather warms I intend to just relax outside and just hang out, keep treats with me, in the hopes that she'll get even more tolerant of me. But right now isn't the best time to risk infection from a bite, so I'm a bit hesitant on that front.

In any case, I wondered if this cat's current behavior is an indication of potential sociability, or if I should just be content to watch over her from inside, so to speak. I'm absolutely fine letting her be wild and free, so long as she continues to appear content with that.

 

[Elphaba09]

Since there has been some interaction and socialization, there might be a slight chance. Given the cat's age, the chances are low, but not completely improbable. What gives me an indication that you might be able to socialize her more is that she has meowed at you. In my experience with ferals, meowing at a human only comes if the feral has learned to do it by being around humans. Give it time and let the cat lead. She will let you know if it is possible. Relaxing outside with some treats is a good idea. If she approaches you and you do not force the interaction or make any quick moves, you should be safe from scratches or bites.

I had a true feral that came to our porch for four years. Not once did he meow at me. He sat on our porch waiting for food and stayed at least three feet away at all times. He was never with the small colony we care for, though. We have a total of nine indoor cats. Eight were strays. We have one cat that was a feral kitten that took forever to socialize after we brought her inside. She was 4 months when my daughter found her. She rarely meows.

A new cat started coming around. My husband wants to catch him and tame him. It might work because he lets us get closer to him than any of the other ferals and has meowed at me. His general posturing makes me think that he might have been a stray abandoned young and has gone a little wild. He looks like he might be a dwarf cat because he has very short legs, which makes us worry more about his ability to survive on his own. Currently, we are calling him Ezra. We do plan on trapping and neutering at the very least.

 

[molly92]

I think you can. She definitely sounds like a good candidate. But I'm of the opinion that the best method is to get a cat inside ASAP (using a trap if necessary) and then work with them from there.

I have a couple reasons for this, first being safety. Better for the cat to be angry with you at first than to put a lot of work into getting close to them only to have them disappear one day because they were killed by a car or animal. Also, I think this is good for the socialization process. It's easier to get the big betrayal out of the way in the beginning and then build up trust from there, rather than build up to a level of trust slowly and then undo it all by bringing them inside in the middle and having to rebuild that trust all over again. Then there's the fact that being inside and dewormed and cared for is more comfortable, and associating you and the new situation with comfort is a good thing. And lastly, the socialization process goes a LOT faster (even though it's still a slow process) when the cat has more opportunities to be around you and you have a level of control of how the steps progress, versus when the cat is outside and can choose not to show up or be around you much.

This is going to take a LOT of patience and work on your part though. If you don't have the time or energy, that's completely understandable. Socializing former ferals is not for everyone.

If you do want to move forward, you should contact your local animal rescue group and see if you can borrow a trap and get some basic deworming and flea treatment medication from them. Wash the trap with soap and water first, then set it to stay open and feed the cat in it for a few days until she gets used to it. She might be trap averse at first because she's been spayed before. Once you're confident she'll go in, set the trap and bring her inside.

You'll want to keep her in a small room, preferably a bathroom or something easy to clean, especially if fleas are present. Either set up a large cage with all the necessities, or make sure any hard to reach hiding spots (in drawers, under the sink) are blocked off and set up a nice hiding place like a cardboard box. Use lots of towels that you don't care about, set up a litter box, food and water, and some toys. When you're around the cat in the beginning, wear thick gloves and clothes that keep you mostly covered, just in case. The more "feral" she is, the more likely she is to get quiet and still and hide. More confident cats are the ones that get loud and make a fuss actually.

I suggest reading through this guide and following it to the best of your ability. It takes you through every step in detail and explains why it works. She might have had more human contact than you realize and progress more quickly, but assume that won't be the case and this will take a long time and a lot of patience. But it's hugely rewarding, and you get a special bond with a cat you've worked with like that.

 

[NY cat man]

There is absolutely the possibility of socialization. Our latest adoptee, Miss Eleanor, was a 4-ish TNR that started hanging around our house. She became very friendly, and would watch us as we worked outside, to the point that sometimes she would even crawl onto my lap. Eventually, we gave in and let her in to join our 5 other former ferals. She has been inside for 15 months now and is a regular lap cat. You have made a good start, and while trapping is one option, we have preferred to do most of our socialization while the cats were still outside, to the point that the cats merely followed us inside when we held the door open for them.

 

[tutubean]

Interesting method, and relevant to my situation. I'd say we're nearly there, but will take a few more months at the very very least.
We're already to the point where the cat shows up regularly and will hang out (at a distance) in the yard, sunbathing while my mother gardens, for instance. No physical contact yet, and still getting the "look how tough and independent I am" hisses when I approach with food, sometimes replaced by or intermixed with pitiful "feed me now please" mews.
We're still in an inconsistent relationship: today she hissed no less than 4 times as I approached with the bowl, but just yesterday she practically did a figure 8 "feed me" dance around my legs, except it was just a foot or so in front of me, and she approached with in a few inches of me to eat a treat that I laid down.
As for the house, she's at the point where she'll stand on her hind feet to peer inside the screen door to see if we're there, and she'll peer inside the house when the door's open, but I don't think she's familiar with the concept of a house.

 

[tutubean]

the cats merely followed us inside when we held the door open for them.

Meant to ask in previous reply:
What is your protocol for when a feral/stray comes inside? I don't want to attempt this until she allows me to touch her, for obvious reasons. But in regards to potential fleas etc, what do you do once they're inside? I would want to isolate her and prep for a vet visit, but do you keep flea treatments on hand? I don't have a cat at the moment (she's a couple years passed) so no treatments sitting around. And attempting to bathe a cat first thing might be... rough.
I'm inexperienced with fostering and to the idea of socializing ferals. I just want to be prepared if the day comes that this cat wants to come inside.

Thanks all for your replies so far, by the way. I've bookmarked this page.

 

[NY cat man]

Meant to ask in previous reply:
What is your protocol for when a feral/stray comes inside? I don't want to attempt this until she allows me to touch her, for obvious reasons. But in regards to potential fleas etc, what do you do once they're inside? I would want to isolate her and prep for a vet visit, but do you keep flea treatments on hand? I don't have a cat at the moment (she's a couple years passed) so no treatments sitting around. And attempting to bathe a cat first thing might be... rough.
I'm inexperienced with fostering and to the idea of socializing ferals. I just want to be prepared if the day comes that this cat wants to come inside.

Thanks all for your replies so far, by the way. I've bookmarked this page.

Except for the first feral- we had no other cats at the time- all of our adoptees were isolated in a spare room and given that flea treatment applied to the back of the neck- the name escapes me at the moment- while awaiting their first vet visit for exams and shots. We also used those Seresto collars, but those came later.
The main thing to remember is to be patient. It is all too easy to want results right away, but it seldom works out that way. If you can, just sit outside and let the cat come to you. Place the food dish a little closer to where you are each day, but ignore the cat. It took us an average of around 4 months to get to the point where they would come when they heard the door open, and would allow petting and in some cases even climb into our laps. Once we had earned their trust, the rest was easy. Even after several years- one of them is 8- some of them don't allow us to pick them up, while others are cuddle cats. It all depends on the individual cat. Good luck to you.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Meant to ask in previous reply:
What is your protocol for when a feral/stray comes inside? I don't want to attempt this until she allows me to touch her, for obvious reasons. But in regards to potential fleas etc, what do you do once they're inside? I would want to isolate her and prep for a vet visit, but do you keep flea treatments on hand? I don't have a cat at the moment (she's a couple years passed) so no treatments sitting around. And attempting to bathe a cat first thing might be... rough.
I'm inexperienced with fostering and to the idea of socializing ferals. I just want to be prepared if the day comes that this cat wants to come inside.

Thanks all for your replies so far, by the way. I've bookmarked this page.

Such great advice so far!!

Your feral is absolutely able to be socialized with the right time and effort. I take care of a feral colony, do TNR and take in ferals for our forever home. I have taken in old cats, young, very feral to younger ferals. It is all about building trust and giving them love. How they respond can differ but every cat I have taken in has been wonderful (though some don't like being picked up, etc).

Food is the best way to a cat's heart and to build trust.

"What is your protocol for when a feral/stray comes inside?" - The previous posts addressed this well. I trap a cat and then get them into the vet for shots, de-worming, flea meds, etc. To address any issues. From the vet I take them into a room where it can be controlled. Easy to clean if fleas, etc. Molly92 has great advice about blocking off hiding places, etc.

I take in cats that can't be touched but my situation and experience is different. I will say a cat in the wild is at risk every day so it is best to try to get them to the vet then into the house as soon as possible. Socializing indoors with only 1 cat is a pretty easy situation.

Since ferals can be tricky to get into the vet once inside the house I like to trap and then take them to the vet and then into the house.

The socializing part will be easy. We never know if the cat will be a lap cat etc but I will say I have never met a cat yet that doesn't respond to be loved.

It is really important to not initiate contact with a feral, don't stand over them, don't stare at them, don't reach for them from above their head, don't corner them (allow for escape routes). Cats take on our emotions so the more calm and confident we are the more they are. Act "normal" around them. Give food to make a positive association with you and them and to build trust. Give eye kisses (slowly close your eyes, hold them closed for a few seconds then slowly open your eyes).

The caution you are seeing from her with eating (she waits for you to move, she may hiss, etc) is very normal. It is all about building trust. Showing that you are something positive to her (a source of food) and don't want to hurt her.

It sounds like you are starting to build trust with her. Really great job.

And again, a lot of great advice so far so re-read the prior posts as they are really good. We can all help you through this process. A feral cat is just a cat that was born in the wild in my opinion. They may not trust as much at first but all a cat wants is to be loved and taken care of. All the cats I have ever had came from the streets. Some I took in were old (4+ years old) in feral terms and some younger (1-3 years old). All of them have been and are great cats. And the cats in my feral colony are as wonderful as house cats. If you put in the time and effort I think the vast majority of ferals can be great cats. We'll help you through this.

Thank you for caring about your cat visitor!!!!

 

[moxiewild]

To be honest, it sounds as though these cats potentially had human contact earlier in life at some point - particularly the “friendlier” one, as true ferals don’t meow.

All three can almost certainly be socialized, and again, definitely that less timid one! I’d bet all my money she has interacted with humans at some point (beyond TNR) if this is her progress after only two months and she’s still outdoors.

We’ve socialized all ages before too, including a few that were quite old (10-14 based on vet estimation). We have 8 ex ferals who were socialized at varying ages in our house currently.

I agree with Calicosrspecial, the process will be much quicker and more efficient if you bring her indoors.

We go even further though now, and crate ferals for the first 2-6 weeks for socialization (how long depends on the individual cat, how they’re doing with being crated, and their progress). We get XL dog crates (Large works okay too) from Tractor Supply that come with a divider.

Rather than use the divider vertically, we place it horizontally (secured with zip ties) to add a shelf and increase vertical space in the crate. And then we zip tie cardboard or corrugated plastic on top of it.

We also place a regular carrier in there to provide a hiding place and make things easier for us when it comes to cleaning and vet visits.

We twist tie the door open to the outside of the crate. When we need to get into the crate for heavy duty cleaning or to take kitty to the vet, we gently “encourage” him to get in the carrier while the crate is still closed.

We release the carrier door, then run a yardstick in between the crate bars to close the carrier door, and run it all the way to the opposite side so that it barricades the door.

Then we open the crate and manually lock the carrier door.

This allows us to remove kitty when needed for cleaning/disinfecting, and the vet.

Here are some of our crate set ups -

Here’s an adult momma and her kitten for a better idea of scale -

We prefer crating the first few weeks because it helps things move along much faster in our experience vs starting off with a whole room.

Most cats (though not all!) seem to prefer the confined space better too - they rarely try to figure out how to escape, and just hunker down. When we give them a whole room, they almost all of them go nuts at certain points frantically trying to find a way out for the first week (we know this because we keep cameras on them at all times and it alerts our phones whenever they move).

In terms of socialization, it also allows us to get closer to them right away simply by just sitting outside the crate. And introducing toys is also easier (toys tend to frighten ferals for a bit at first).

Like everyone has said, it takes s lot of time and patience, but it can be done!

For the friendly cat, I’d spend the first week mostly ignoring her but being around her a lot of you bring her inside. Then introduce food to the socialization process, then toys as you start to more actively work with her. It honestly sounds like she won’t take very long at all!

 

[molly92]

moxiewild , those setups are fantastic!

 

[tutubean]

Thank you all so much.

We had a development today: I came out with the food and the friendly not-so-feral-anymore not only approached but had her tail straight up. I was pretty shocked to be honest! She let out her unsure squeak for food and.... brushed up against my leg. It was quick though, because her instinctive movement caught her by surprise and she jumped a little as if she realized her body betrayed her

This is such a contrast to her siblings (they have lived in this neighborhood for 18+ months). At least one of her two panther siblings has started to learn from her that I give food. This cat is evasive, shy, and silent like a proper feral. Ear is not tipped. I have no idea where the friendly one picked up human interaction tricks like attempting a meow, but it certainly wasn't from her cat family. I suspect someone around here is managing this colony...

I don't know if I'm in the position to adopt (I'm quarantined at my parent's house and they'd have to agree to it!), but I want to at some point work with local TNR groups to check that 1) the friendly cat is indeed tipped and 2) isn't 'owned' by a neighbor via chip reader, and 3) get her siblings and the unrelated cats in the area TNRd. I also need to try to track down who might be managing the colony, because it really does seem like someone is.

The best part of gaining trust here is that we more or less have a feeding schedule, and trapping may actually work for at least the friendly one and her panther sibling(s).

 

[calicosrspecial]

You are welcome.

"She let out her unsure squeak for food and.... brushed up against my leg. It was quick though, because her instinctive movement caught her by surprise and she jumped a little as if she realized her body betrayed her" - Yep, so common. They so want to "own" you and get their scent on but just have that uncertainty still. Happens all the time. A lot of the time there is a hiss with it a :I am in control, not you" type thing. Just stay calm and confident, don't stare at her, don't reach for her, etc. Just let her go at her pace and keep giving food and being really "cool" when she is around.

Doing TNR is always best. Better life, less reproduction, etc. Maybe some day a home can be found for them. that is always the aboslute best result.

Please let us know if you need any advice etc. Happy to help and answer all your questions. A lot of great people on this thread to help.

 

[tutubean]

Update:

I can't tell if she just likes me, or if she's actually intact and in heat...
She did the "belly-show-off flop-around" twice today, and once for the first time about a week ago.

(she will be TNRd eventually)

 

[calicosrspecial]

Update:

I can't tell if she just likes me, or if she's actually intact and in heat...
She did the "belly-show-off flop-around" twice today, and once for the first time about a week ago.

(she will be TNRd eventually)

How ADORABLE is that pic??????

Hahahaha, I think she likes and trusts you!!

Showing the belly is the ultimate sign of trust since that is where they are most vulnerable.

She is GORGEOUS!!!

 

[tutubean]

Update: her sister did the belly-show roll yesterday for the first time! hurray for learned behavior. I just hope once I TNR them they won't hate me forever.

 

[NY cat man]

Update: her sister did the belly-show roll yesterday for the first time! hurray for learned behavior. I just hope once I TNR them they won't hate me forever.

They may be slightly miffed, but they will get over it. Ours did.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Update: her sister did the belly-show roll yesterday for the first time! hurray for learned behavior. I just hope once I TNR them they won't hate me forever.

Great.

Any chance you can find a home for them? They sound like they could do really well. They are showing a lot of trust. I am more convinced than ever they can be socialized.

Keep up the great work!!

 

[tutubean]

Any chance you can find a home for them? They sound like they could do really well. They are showing a lot of trust. I am more convinced than ever they can be socialized.

One still hisses if I touch her, even if I do it while she rubs up against me. This I know is just how some cats are, so I don't try to pet her. The other is still very shy and does not come very close. But she's comfortable with us around, looks at us passing by and just ignores us. They really treat our property like their home.

I will judge their TNF potential when I trap them. My parents want to keep them around as community cats as they seem happy and healthy. But there are other cats in the neighborhood who may may their outdoor life risky. So, we'll see.

 

[calicosrspecial]

One still hisses if I touch her, even if I do it while she rubs up against me. This I know is just how some cats are, so I don't try to pet her. The other is still very shy and does not come very close. But she's comfortable with us around, looks at us passing by and just ignores us. They really treat our property like their home.

I will judge their TNF potential when I trap them. My parents want to keep them around as community cats as they seem happy and healthy. But there are other cats in the neighborhood who may may their outdoor life risky. So, we'll see.

Sorry for the delay, I never got a notice of an update on your post.

"One still hisses if I touch her, even if I do it while she rubs up against me." - That is pretty normal and not at all worrying. The fact she is rubbing against you is a BIG POSITIVE. She wants to "own" you, claim you as "hers". That is a big step. BUT it is just a step. It should still be all no her terms and following her actions. So what I do is wait for the cat to give the "ok". I go at the cat's pace. So I wouldn't initiate contact, just let her, and continue to build trust with her. Makes positive associations using food. And when she starts headbutting your hand when you give a treat of food then you will know it is probably a good time to initiate a pet. We can address it when we get there. For now, I would just go at her pace and not initiate contact for the moment. The fact she is rubbing on you is a great sign.

"The other is still very shy and does not come very close. But she's comfortable with us around, looks at us passing by and just ignores us." - Again that is very normal and also a good sign there is comfort or trust. You are definitely doing the right things with both of them. You are right, some cats aren't as touchy feely. I always just go at their pace and their desires. Sometimes they can be very surprising (in a good way) later on as more trust is built.

"They really treat our property like their home." - That is great!!!

"I will judge their TNR potential when I trap them. My parents want to keep them around as community cats as they seem happy and healthy. But there are other cats in the neighborhood who may may their outdoor life risky. So, we'll see." - Yes. It is always best to find a home if at all possible. They sound like great cats so I think they could do very well in the right home. Yes, outdoor risk is always high and lifespans are shorter. TNR is a good alternative but the best is to find a home if at all possible.

We'll figure it out. Keep up the great work!!! Good job!!

 

[tutubean]

Just an interesting development tonight. Her brother, who appears to have major blueballs and needs to be neutered, chased my girl up a tree tonight after stealing her wet food. I've never seen him so brazen.

So up she went into a short, easily climbable tree. She's always been a good climber and does this often to avoid other cats. I've never seen her avoid her own brother before, though. When I came over, she cried, the same sound I've heard my own cat make when she was scared and wanted my help. Eventually I shooed her brother away (had to do this several times). This startled her but I immediately made squinty eyes and kissy noises and trills, and quietly called her name. She squinted back a few times but mostly cried. I backed away slightly and made the soft noises again. I shooed her brother away again. Eventually I went and got her favorite treats, lifted some up for her to smell. She tried to get at them but couldn't, and again she cried. Her ears were never flattened, still no hissing. I put the treats on the ground and made the noises I always make to alert her to food. It took a minute, but some careful footwork later she was down and munching on her reward. After she dined on kibble, she flopped down on the ground like nothing had happened. Her brother watched from afar, playing innocent...

I'm certainly hoping this helps her understand I (and most humans) are safe harbor and will protect her as well as feed her. If this had been my cat, she would have climbed onto me, something she did when scared, such as at the vet. But since this girl and I aren't yet at a point in our relationship where I can touch her, that likely wasn't going to happen.

I'm really surprised she didn't hiss at all while up in the tree, except when it was directed at her brother before I shooed him off.

Anyway... yeah. I really wish I had 2 traps, but someone is so getting fixed this Monday.