Is The Solution A Third Cat/kitten?

beckbjj

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Okay, that's what's weird, because Coffee has no desire to be alpha either! I wish Maui would just leave her alone. It's like she thinks that Coffee is her own personal toy, and I think that because Coffee reacts SO animatedly, Maui keeps doing it and hasn't gotten bored of this behaviour yet.
Yes, I have to say the yowling and such is a twist! Mine run away and try to hide, but the tiny girl is quick and catches them a percentage of the time. I didn't have luck with Clomicalm or the calming collar or various calming treats. I do have the multi-cat version of Feliway in the room they stay in the most. I'm not sure it helps but the refills are reasonable enough at Chewy that I'm still using it. You could consider a trial of CBD oil for both of them perhaps. It has been the thing that has worked the best for my kitties, but everyone's mileage may vary. It is supposed to be good for both anxiety and aggression, and that bears out so far here. I get the pet version at Lazarus Naturals because it is lab analyzed quality and reasonably priced. They only need 5 drops twice a day (on their food) so the larger bottle lasts a pretty long time.
 
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stephmnichols

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I'm going to be starting them on a once-a-day, transdermal dosage of fluoxetine, as the syringe twice a day is just not a viable option.

Every time I think I'm making progress, they go and prove me wrong! It's like one step forward, two steps back with these two. Last night they were relaxing within two feet of each other; Coffee was even purring and stretched out in a vulnerable position a few times! But then today Maui chased Coffee and she got so freaked out that she jumped over the upstairs balcony and onto the kitchen counter downstairs. She's fine, but that was a big jump and I don't want it to happen again.

I do think Maui is "play" fighting with Coffee, as there is no hissing or pinned back ears or anything coming from her end. But Coffee is so defensive back (understandably). At this point it's like they aren't playing TOGETHER, Maui is just playing, using Coffee as her toy. Which is obviously not a compatible situation.

(Picture from last night) IMG_1911.JPG
 

Kflowers

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That leap must have terrified you. My heart lurched just reading about it. Poor Coffee.

Are you going to put netting up on the inside of the balcony railing up to the ceiling? You could put butterflies or the like on it to make it more decorative.
 
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stephmnichols

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It honestly has never happened before, so I hadn't considered it. The balcony itself has freaked me out in the past, but they've both proven steady enough to handle it! She did land on her feet and she is okay, but I'm thinking about just blocking off the area until they can work things out without this dramatic of an episode. I don't think it would have happened if the bedroom door wasn't closed either; Coffee I think was running for her shelf-perch but the door was closed, so she panicked and went into the other room with the balcony.
 

beckbjj

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I'm going to be starting them on a once-a-day, transdermal dosage of fluoxetine, as the syringe twice a day is just not a viable option.
Well, you're gonna think I have altogether too many cats, and that is a distinct possibility, but FWIW, I do have a cat on fluoxetine as well. She is the 5 year old biological sister of my 2 year old bully who is on CBD oil (they have the same feral barn cat mom), and her name is Grace. Grace has been on fluoxetine for about two years now I guess.

In case my experience helps you at all, I'll post some info here. Transdermal would have been better for me as well (Grace can be quite violent), but I read that it is not always well absorbed. The fluoxetine tablets/capsules that are generally available are too large a dose and would have to be split which can be tricky. My vet instead sent my prescription to a compounding pharmacy called Wedgewood and they are AWESOME. They recently merged with Diamondback (another compounding pharmacy) and I think now they can sell in pretty much any state in the country. They make 5 mg tablets of fluoxetine for cats, and actually they also have other forms/dosages available but I've only tried the 5 mg tablets. I get 100 tablets for about $35.00 including shipping, and she takes one a day. This is by far the best deal I could find, and Wedgewood is safe and reliable, a real honest to goodness pharmacy in the U.S. (New Jersey based I think). My vet swears by them, and they also do meds for people and other animals.

So that's information that I hope will be helpful to you. I'd also mention that I am currently doing a slow wean off of the fluoxetine and starting up CBD oil for Grace, to see how she does. If she doesn't do well, she can always go back on the fluoxetine, but the less Rx meds the better (as long as she's doing well) as far as I'm concerned, and she's already on prednisolone (a very low dose) for life due to asthma.
 
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stephmnichols

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I have heard that it is less well absorbed as well, which worries me, but because of how badly they both hate being given syringes or pills (can't blame them) I'm going to try it first. Hopefully the transdermal will be adequate for them... Coffee especially isn't food motivated, so hiding it in her food is a no-go, and Maui, while she does love to eat, will still turn her nose up at medicated food. I have high hopes for the transdermal, and if not, maybe I can look into CBD oil...
 

Kflowers

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Don't feel bad about not being able to hide it in their food. My crew was pretty food driven, like 18 year old human boys food driven, and it didn't work. I put the pills in cat food, food gone, pill left, I put it in beef veg soup - soup gone, pill left. I crumbled it and put it in baby food - ham baby food - baby food gone, crumbles left all of them.
 

radarlove413

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This is such a difficult situation! I agree with what the other posters have said about fostering if you want to try out a third cat.

A combination of medication and letting our cats work it out really helped with our bully and timid cat. I feel like the medication didn't help too much with changing behavior, but it left everyone calm and chill enough that they could get more used to each other's presence.
 

beckbjj

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I have heard that it is less well absorbed as well, which worries me, but because of how badly they both hate being given syringes or pills (can't blame them) I'm going to try it first.
Yes, and apparently the fluoxetine must not taste very good because I do have trouble with that, but don't have any trouble getting her to take her prednisolone (for asthma). But what I do that works *most* of the time is I make a little "meatball" out of the fluoxetine tablet (the pred too, separately), with a pinch of wet food and the pill in the middle. I can't take a chance of her missing a pred dose because she's already on a very low dose, so I have her eat the "meatballs" out of the palm of my hand before I will give her the rest of her food. Every now and then she spits the fluoxetine back out, but never more than twice. By the third try I have always had her get it down.
 

beckbjj

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But then today Maui chased Coffee and she got so freaked out that she jumped over the upstairs balcony and onto the kitchen counter downstairs. She's fine, but that was a big jump and I don't want it to happen again.
I didn't have access to my pics when I replied earlier, but I wanted to tell you I feel your pain. Mine (several of them) do it for recreation!:gaah: Note that I had put a screen and cardboard all around the spindles so they wouldn't go through the spindles. So yeah, that worked out well. :flail:
indy-mj-railing2.jpg
 
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stephmnichols

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Oh yes, mine walk along the balcony recreationally as well... it used to scare me, but they've both proven agile enough now that I just let them do it. They seem to really enjoy watching down on us from above (must be that superior cat-attitude...)

I'm wondering if anyone has any advice about how to increase Coffee's confidence. I feel like ever since that big run in, she has been so much more afraid of Maui. Before, we were making progress and she would sometimes brave the downstairs if the doors had been open and they'd had access to each other for a while. I'll admit I've been hesitant to give them any daytime together time anyways, so I can't say for SURE that she wouldn't come down, but it's mostly just been Coffee in our room or the sun room and Maui in the rest of the house (although I do switch them periodically - Coffee is in the house right now and Maui is in the spare room).

Other than giving her a lot more time out here to get her re-accustomed to the house, and playing with her more, is there anything I can do to increase her confidence? I'm worried that if we start doing daytime access again she will just hide on her perch upstairs the whole time :(
 
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