Introduction was going swimmingly and suddenly took a turn for the worse

Alldara

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If he really needs to wrestle, I recommend a brightly coloured oven mitt like a holiday themed one. And it should not look like your cooking ones, colour wise.highly likely that he needs to wrestle if he's frustrated.

Make an "eep!" Sound with high pitch if he hurts you. it's similar to what they'd tell one another.

If you don't let yourself bond, it will not help this process along. The cat needs the bond and safety to trust you and trust you to know and help it in situations.

Imagine a lot how you felt during quarentine if you experienced it...and think of how many people might have felt alone for days/weeks in a bachelor by themselves. Of course his kitten energy will be unmanageable at this point. He will need lots of play and running to lower it at all. Time and patience and babysteps forward.
 

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One mistake many make and I notice here, is that during this gated session, you're just observing. This is the time to let the other cat observe you two playing and really get him running around before you take a step back to sit and observe.

You've got two people so each trying to play with a cat is excellent. You're getting them used to doing regular things together.
 
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Julesbiscuits

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Thank you so much both of you! My best friend also talked some sense into me --- she has much more experience with cats than I do and is a cat person. She pointed out that nothing he's doing is abnormal for his age; my biggest worry is not seeing red flags and things to be corrected or how to correct them because I haven't had a 10 month old in almost four years, and when I did he was with another cat from the get go so a lot of his kitten stuff I've either forgotten or didn't see because he was acting it out with our other cat.

My partner isn't exactly helpful here; when I'm looking for solutions when we talk about it he's kind of like "we could always return him" which is not what I need to hear, I think he means well but I don't need him to take me off the hook, I need him to support the process. So I think I'll be involving my friend mostly from now on.

NekoM NekoM Please don't worry about being tough, I need to hear it, it makes me feel better when people are honest so I can adjust my behavior accordingly! I appreciate it very much! I have been playing with the wand toy the past couple days and trying to switch the you on the end frequently to prevent him from getting bored, I'll have to pick up some more though because he's starting to get sick of the ones I have! Also on this particular day I hadn't had a chance to tire him out yet, and it shows. I bet that's why he went for my ankle, normally he either thinks about it and then doesn't, or he does it briefly and runs off.

A Alldara You're right, I need to spend a lot more time just hanging out with him as well as playing. I've been listening to Jackson Galaxy's book at work and while listening to the part about challenge lines I realized that Jonesy is probably my personal challenge line; he's just a little edgier than I'm used to and that puts me a little out of my comfort zone. I also have a habit of babying the resident animal when I get a new one; I'm pretty sure I was the same way when we got Misfit and it wasn't good for him or our now deceased Julian.
 
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Julesbiscuits

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A Alldara Oh yeah! He has a stuffed kitten he wrestles with ahd a hammerhead shark, if I throw them sometimes he goes for them and gets the bunny kicks in, I'll cycle those in more often for sure.
 

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Julesbiscuits Julesbiscuits A wool dryer ball with some catnip is a big hit here! Don't be afraid to get creative with his enrichment 😸

You've added a new family member. That's always an adjustment period. Adjustment periods are hard but just because something is hard doesn't mean it's not worth it or you shouldn't do it. You can do hard things and so can your floofs. You've got this.
 
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Julesbiscuits

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A Alldara NekoM NekoM A ArtNJ

So playing a lot seems to help! And having him out for longer periods, my only concern is that Misfit doesn't seem to be struggling any less with the howling, which still happens when Jonesy is in the bathroom. I totally get the little guy's frustration, and now that I'm tiring him out it doesn't seem like he's doing it from overstimulation, but when he does do it Misfit looks stressed about it, he kind of slinks to the other side of the apartment and doesn't hide but sits quietly staring in the direction of the noise.

Also, my friend came over and had Jonesy on a harness and leash and Misfit loose and there was no hissing and growling or any kind of posturing, but I am a little concerned because of the behaviors I'm seeing from Jonesy; he stares and then lunges without warning. He's not singularly focused on Misfit, he can be distracted and led away (when on harness.) Misfit doesn't freak out at this or anything, and they eat treats near each other fine, but Misfit is also a mostly pretty confident calm cat and I don't know that he would "tell" me if that makes sense, if Jonesy was actually a danger to him. And I worry that their dynamic is not going to be healthy in the future, Jonesy seems somewhat undersocialized to me and I don't know that Misfit will put him in his place in the way he needs. Am I an awful person for thinking about bringing him back to the rescue? This might not be a great time for a project especially in a small two bedroom apartment with a baby and the stress has been so bad these past almost two months we've had him I've barely been able to eat since we got him. I've often felt like I don't want to go home after work because it's so stressful.

My friend said she'll keep helping but at what point do I say enough is enough? I don't want Misfit's quality of life to suffer OR Jonesy's quality of life to suffer. Or mine for that matter!
 

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Julesbiscuits Julesbiscuits lots of changes in your life at the moment!

You're really struggling still with looking on the bad side of the situation. You're looking at all of Jonsey's behaviour as negative or agressive. It's just normal cat behaviour. He's very likely trying to play. Just like one cannot view the world through rose coloured glasses, you can't keep viewing through grey coloured ones.

I can understand completely why you're considering returning him as your stress is high. You're not an awful person. I'm the first to say that human limits factor in, and everyone has their limit point.
However, you mentioned before that you tend to run from hard situations. So I think you need to consider that if you return him at this point you put all of you through this stress for nothing. It's going fairly well. Your cats are both fairly young and as you transition to be the parent of a toddler and preschooler, they will benefit from one another's company and play.

Fuss less. Have him out more on that leash. Doesn't sound like you need an extra person to have him out like that. He's quite controlled on it.

Of course Misfit is distressed by his yowling. He likely feels the same as you about it.

Here's the truth: Your cats will sometimes not get along. They will sometimes annoy each other. They may even accidentally do a small hurt to one another like a pinch or a scratch during play. All of that is okay and normal. It doesn't mean they don't love one another.
 
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Julesbiscuits

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Well! Not a ton of progress between the boys but some new ideas and some progress between me and Jonesy! And some stuff we've found out thru trial and (much) error.

As for the boys, Misfit is curious but still a bit cautious of Jonesy. He happily sleeps on blankets Jonesy has "fuzzed" all over 😹 If Jonesy has been out he inspects everything carefully and rubs up on me extra. We did one more harness exercise with both of them out today, Fitty is happy to follow me out to a 7ft distance from Jonesy and sit and receive treats for looking at Jonesy and then looking away. His tail is a little twitchy but I think that has more to do with me not dispensing treats fast enough than it does with Jonesy, he's happy to fully have his back to Mr. Jones. He has stopped getting nervous when Jonesy wails in the bathroom! Which is less and less frequent lately, but it still startles my postpartum brain because it really does simulate a baby crying! He tends to play play play and then go into the bathroom, eat and then snooze ad nauseum.

Mostly I've spent the past week playing with Jonesy one on one and figuring out a game plan (he has a lot to learn!) Today my partner was putting on his harness and I noticed that while he is a whirling dervish with his paws and teeth while doing so (we had to hurry along the harness process to try and make progress on face to face, he walks fine in it once it's on and allows us to take it off; we're doing practice runs with churu treats to desensitize him to having it put on) he knows his boundaries as far as not harming people; I almost didn't believe it when my partner showed me that not a mark was on him afterwards! To be honest I'm a little afraid of cats despite working with them previously and being on my third one, the only reason I have them now is a cascade of events involving a dog who died 5 years ago 😂 So the kitten jumpscares, ankle biting and arm grabbing, as infrequent as they are, scare me more than they should. Having grown up with me, Misfit seems to understand my quirks and I'm hoping Jonesy will as well with time. Another part is that when I got Misfit at 4 months old he immediately cuddled with me and so I was much more comfortable with him right away, before he became an unruly teenager. I keep reminding myself that this is the worst Jonesy will ever be, and that he should calm down a bit in the next year or so! Maybe he'll even want to cuddle someday 🤭

He does still seem pretty obsessed with Misfit but I have a second more sturdy and extra tall baby gate coming in the mail tomorrow and I'm going to stack them over the bathroom door to create a barrier. I think if he gets to see Misfit most of the time it'll take away some of the novelty and mystery factor every time he sees him. He was willing to disengage for a treat though! And stayed on his chair parking spot for most of it too. He even tried to explore without making a beeline for Misfit a few times. I think next time I'll take his leash and work on the clicker training protocol myself as I saw my partner getting the timing wrong at points. We've enrolled them both in Cat School and it's been a load of fun so far! They are both very food motivated!

Overall good stuff!
 

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Small steps are really much bigger than you expect. You should celebrate your progress! You're all making forward movement and even a step back is just a learnt bump. Some regression is just as normal in pets as it is in humans.
 
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Julesbiscuits

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A ArtNJ A Alldara NekoM NekoM

Hey guys I had another random question that (probably) has nothing to do with our situation but I was curious about.

So back at the rescue when I worked there, single kitten syndrome was a huge buzzphrase we threw around a lot. But if I'm being honest I've only ever met one cat that DEFINITELY had it (she was pretty much impossible to adopt out at 2.5 years old, couldn't be with other cats either) How do you know a cat has single kitten syndrome? Is it as big an issue as people say? And can adult single kitten syndrome sufferers be remedied by interactions with another cat?

I don't have any clue what Jonesy's life was like pre-rescue (the place he was transferred in from is always really vague, I remember them from when I worked there) but he's gentle enough with his appendages despite the grabbing and biting and launching (lol) that I wouldn't think it's the case for him. But I'm always trying to pick up more animal behavior info so I figured I'd ask about it. We used to get a few returns at around a year old of cats that were adopted from us because of "SKS" type behavior. How would you even differentiate it from normal teenage kitten antics or overstimulation?

Just some curiosity!
 

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I dont know if there is any such thing Jules. However, having a playmate cat is one way a cat can get a lot of the energy out. If that outlet isn't there, and there is no other outlet (indoor/outdoor cats get a ton of energy out) then your going to see some problematic behaviors due to boredom from a young cat. Its hard for a human to play with an only cat without these outlets enough to prevent this. Its not a syndrome, I dont think, its boredom. Secondly, cats get worse at accepting other cats as they age. So a cat that has been an only cat for a while may have a hard time but a cat of the same age that had its lifelong buddy die? Not sure if that cat is going to accept another cat any easier. Just my two cents on it.
 

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I think it happens, and is a spectrum and is not a 100% guarantee.

We noted it in our childhood cat and chalked it up to personality. But I've noted it over the years when helping people with cats. The first thing I noticed the the lack of range of vocal sounds by many single cats. There's also a lack of understanding of inter-cat interactions for many of them. Some have a harder time later to learn inter-cat interactions depending on their intelligence and willingness to be adaptable.

The other things such as biting and attempting to wrestle with humans I, like A ArtNJ chalk up to boredom. I've had it happen with smart young cats in multicat homes. My BIL's cat Minou was bad about this even with 3 humans, 2 cats and periodic children to play with. Minou had two cats, we never wrestled with him and our bodies but he was never gentle.

I noted some behaviours of solo-cat syndrome in Nobel after learning about it. Lily was raised by a dog and acted like a dog in most ways. She also loved all other animals and was immediately accepting of them (except our neighbours one cat). Nobel was good with dogs, people, learned to cuddle and and co-groom but never really understood how to initiate play with another cat. Sometimes, he would try to join Calcifer and Magnus in play and play would break up. But if they initiated with him, it went well.
Nobel learned SO much in his last years about how to cat from Magnus. Watching him observe and then test out new behaviours was a true joy. I don't know why he decided to learn from Magnus finally.

I've had great experience and success with the "oven mitt" game with cats (using one to wrestle). I did this with Nobel, and now with Cal and Magnus and I have no issue with them wrestling people. I wish I'd used it with Minou it would have saved a lot of trouble. But I had 'learned' that you never want to wrestle a cat in any way after Nobel and put it in to practice.


Sorry for the long post but I guess in conclusion I don't think it's an actual syndrome, but a set of behaviours that cats are more at-risk of exhibiting when an only cat during key socializing periods. Other factors include personality and human factors.
 
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Julesbiscuits

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The first thing I noticed the the lack of range of vocal sounds by many single cats. There's also a lack of understanding of inter-cat interactions for many of them. Some have a harder time later to learn inter-cat interactions depending on their intelligence and willingness to be adaptable.
This is really interesting! We know a little about Misfit's home prior to us; he was a California owner surrender at four months and got transferred up during the wildfires; his sheet said he lived with dogs and cats and children for his first few months but I don't think there were other kittens and I'm willing to bet the other cats didn't give him the time of day based on his behavior. He has always been very quiet, and when we got him and he met Julian for the first time, he hissed but with none of the body language that usually goes with it and seemed surprised that Julian stopped playing with him after. And then never did it again until his tussle with Jonesy. He almost never meows, he chuckles (at least that's what it sounds like to me, I think it's his version of a chirrup, I've actually only heard meows since Jonesy showed up which makes sense, Julian was pretty much silent/had no meow) And he had no sense of claw or bite inhibition either, we got pretty torn up until Jules set him straight.

On the other hand, Jules was clearly raised with other cats and came in with other cats but also didn't meow. But he lived with a dog after 6 months old and was super weird his whole short life. But he was very sensitive to other animals' cues. Never tried to wrestle with me either. Very mellow. His love bites hurt like hell though.

I like the spectrum idea, that makes sense.
 
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Julesbiscuits

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I've had great experience and success with the "oven mitt" game with cats (using one to wrestle).
I might try this with Jonesy, honestly just to see what he makes of it. With his tiger toy on a string he wrestles it but at some point decides he's too wound up and leaps away. One time he even hissed at it and disengaged.

I would try it with Misfit but honestly that sounds a little scary 😹 He's a big boi
 

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Julesbiscuits Julesbiscuits It's so wonderful to know a bit about your cats history! It sounds like you've mostly had quieter cats. That's pretty normal too. Many cats are quiet.

a meow is really meant for humans mostly. Though I do find there is a 'MAROOW?!' sound that means 'where are you?' that cats might make at another cat or even a toy.

There's tons of different "brrs" "chirps", even squeaks, as well as growls, yowls, hisses and so on that are all vocalizations. Solo cats seem to miss range in brrs, chirps, squeeks and periodically meows too. Each household will have its own language of Meows though as mostly they are for human-cat interaction benefit. If not encouraged, or actively discouraged many cats will not meow frequently.

I'm sure you have seen many online at least. There's that "ekekek" chirp that they do at birds and bugs. Most cats retain that.

There's one chirp that Magnus brought home that must mean, "Let's play." He does it at other cats to initiate play and never at humans. Nobel and Calcifer began repeating it.

Lily used to howl like a dog. Magnus also had a howl but is sounds like, "MeeooooOooOoOoo." And it is out of frustration. Usually when we won't open the door but also when Stranger -Cat is outside and on the porch. Stranger-Cat is not allowed on the porch, according to Magnus. He most have learned it from foster or his time at the colony.

Calcifer 'brrrs' so much. At everything. As a response to Magnus, to us, to birds and toys and bugs. There's a range of them. His foster said his mum was chatty and he took after her. She mentioned his meowing when he wants something a lot too, calling him persistent. I call it stubborn. He reminds me a LOT of the Staffordshire terriers we had growing up; especially so with his ability to solidify his body in a stubborn way that makes him magically heavier that is really common in "Pitbull" breeds of dogs. Luckily, he's cat sized and can easily be picked up and moved. Just as affectionate and family oriented as those breeds of dogs tend to be too.
 

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I might try this with Jonesy, honestly just to see what he makes of it. With his tiger toy on a string he wrestles it but at some point decides he's too wound up and leaps away. One time he even hissed at it and disengaged.

I would try it with Misfit but honestly that sounds a little scary 😹 He's a big boi
Oh my goodness! Nobel was half Maine Coon so I certainly understand. Calcifer has grown out of wrestling the mitt as Nobel did as he aged. He prefers a woolen dryer ball and a large sisal braid for fighting these days. Magnus still loves it.
 
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Julesbiscuits

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I wish if gotten video of it but last night while Jonesy was hanging out in the bedroom while I bathed the baby, Misfit laid down by the door and played pawsies!!

We set up the double baby gates on the other bedroom door and we'll see how that goes; I'll try to distract them from each other but honestly I feel like at this point they both really want to play with each other so maybe it's best not to overcomplicate the process?

Anyways, Misfit seems excited and with enough playtime Jonesy is having a much better time ☺ he even slept through the night in the bathroom without howling last night (at least that I was awake for!)
 

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Julesbiscuits Julesbiscuits AAHHH so excited for you! That's great news.

Can certainly bring a toy to help them together. For example a paper straw is fun for adding to the pawsies game.

Distraction might help you better for the full on our times.
 
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Julesbiscuits

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Julesbiscuits Julesbiscuits AAHHH so excited for you! That's great news.

Can certainly bring a toy to help them together. For example a paper straw is fun for adding to the pawsies game.

Distraction might help you better for the full on our times.
That's a good idea! They both like the wire wand toy so I'll bring that out. I also ordered some more difficult food puzzles to keep Jonesy distracted.

Jonesy has also learned to sit on the chair with the mat on it when he's hungry 🤭 I'm going to teach him some fun tricks he seems like the kind of cat who would like that.

We also ordered a new cat tree and some other furniture for them but I'm budgeting for a ripple mat in the next month or so, it seems up their alley!
 
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Julesbiscuits

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I'm also noticing that Jonesy isn't as high energy as I thought maybe... Our play sessions are maybe half an hour before he tires out and goes to sit on the chair asking for food. And then he naps on his little tree in the bathroom for a couple hours usually. Which is nice since we're figuring out cat furniture rearrangement and kitten/child proofing right now.
 
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