Introduction was going swimmingly and suddenly took a turn for the worse

[Julesbiscuits]

Hey everyone, it's been awhile since I posted here. I'm a bit stumped on what to do with our new kitten.

I have a 5 year old neutered male cat named Misfit. Misfit is rather energetic, always looking for trouble and so we figured a teenage kitten was the way to go, my concern was always that Misfit would hurt the other cat by accident trying to play too rough as he's always been a bit wild. He previously lived with another cat and did great even though he was probably a bit too much for that cat in particular.

Enter Jonesy; 10 months old, pretty wild but he's been mostly well behaved with us. A little bit of ankle biting (but way less than with Misfit when he was a kitten, I have no scratches or bites on me despite having this guy for 2.5 weeks now) and he's very vocal and stressed about being confined to the bathroom It did take 4 people to hold him down at the vet when I took them both today but the vet didn't seem super concerned, she said it seemed more like overstimulation from confinement than actual fractiousness. He didn't hurt anyone.

Misfit had not hissed, growled or otherwise been stressed by Jonesy since he was brought into the apartment. Scent swapping went well, Misfit was sleeping on Jonesy's scented blankets like it was nothing. They even saw each other a couple times because Jonesy is an escape artist and so is Misfit, and there was no hissing or growling. On one occasion Misfit walked behind Jonesy and nipped at his heels a little while he was exploring and no response from Jonesy, on another Jonesy tackled Misfit but I heard no hissing or anything, I removed Jonesy to the bathroom and nobody seemed affected. They were definitely interested in each other but no aggression whatsoever only curiosity. I was only really keeping them separated pending a vet check on Jonesy.

Anyways, we have a screen door over a bedroom and today when my partner went to use the restroom, Misfit managed to open the bedroom door so that only the screen door was over the doorway. Jonesy came over and launched himself under the screen door and tackled Misfit again. Initially there was no hissing or yowling but then my partner opened the screen door so Misfit could leave the room and Jonesy tackled him again. Suddenly it was hissing from Misfit, someone yowled and they separated and then Jonesy chased Misfit into the other bedroom. I was holding the baby so I couldn't do anything but my partner got between them and got Misfit into the other room, blocked Jonesy with his body from following and then picked up Jonesy and put him in the bathroom. Jonesy looked a bit confused throughout this part. Misfit immediately seemed fine after, I checked him for injuries and there were none and he ate his dinner just fine and there was no hiding. Later when we put him away and let Jonesy out, Misfit was trying to get out and Jonesy didn't seem concerned, he pounced his paws under the door and I think Misfit did too. Misfit isn't avoiding anything and was calm pretty much right after the incident. Jonesy seems fine but still overstimulated from confinement and probably the vet. I didn't see any fur fly either. Considering how good Jonesy's bite inhibition has been with us I'm pretty sure he didn't harm Misfit.

I'm so surprised, neither one seemed at all upset about the other before this! Did I accidentally ruin their introduction? It was a total accident, I wasn't planning to let them loose together just yet but they're not making this easy, I'm so anxious now. What is my next step? How do I get Jonesy less overstimulated when I have to keep him separate like this? I'm literally sick to my stomach thinking this won't work, Misfit is very lonely since I have to focus on the baby so much and I know he does really want a friend, he was very attached to our previous cat and spent most of his time with him before he died. And he really does seem to want to be friends with Jonesy, he just wants a fair play fight I think and Jonesy tackled first and asks questions later!!

 

[ArtNJ]

This doesn't sound bad to me; in fact, I would even be encouraged. Just because the intro is going well and there is no general level of concern with each other, doesn't mean that a 5 year old won't be offput by a basically one year old's crazy high play drive. Misfit got tackled basically right out of the gate -- thats a lot for any cat that isn't a one year old! With the intro going well, Misfit would be ready to interact w/ a cat his age showing some restraint, but the intro simply isn't far enough along that he is ready to get play tackled by a cat too young to have any brains. Its possible that Misfit would adapt on his own, and he may need to, but first I would try extending the introduction some. You might still get some stress and protest noises from Misfit, which is fine. You simply dont want things to take a turn to true hostility. Since it sounds like that hasn't happened yet, I see no damage done, and overall would actually be very encouraged. I think the chances of them making it to friendship are good, its just that with one of the two being a play crazy one year old with no boundaries or restraint (typical of the age), there might be some bumps in the road first. Your extending the intro just to minimize the chances of things going south, not because they already have.

 

[Julesbiscuits]

This doesn't sound bad to me; in fact, I would even be encouraged. Just because the intro is going well and there is no general level of concern with each other, doesn't mean that a 5 year old won't be offput by a basically one year old's crazy high play drive. Misfit got tackled basically right out of the gate -- thats a lot for any cat that isn't a one year old! With the intro going well, Misfit would be ready to interact w/ a cat his age showing some restraint, but the intro simply isn't far enough along that he is ready to get play tackled by a cat too young to have any brains. Its possible that Misfit would adapt on his own, and he may need to, but first I would try extending the introduction some. You might still get some stress and protest noises from Misfit, which is fine. You simply dont want things to take a turn to true hostility. Since it sounds like that hasn't happened yet, I see no damage done, and overall would actually be very encouraged. I think the chances of them making it to friendship are good, its just that with one of the two being a play crazy one year old with no boundaries or restraint (typical of the age), there might be some bumps in the road first. Your extending the intro just to minimize the chances of things going south, not because they already have.

I think you're definitely right, I think it was just scary to me because I've never heard Misfit make any of those sounds. I'm not even sure any of the yowling was him, it may have been Jonesy after Misfit hissed at him and I think it was just everyone being surprised and amped up. My partner did tell me that they were sniffing each other right before the first tackle. I mean they're both telling me with their behavior that it was no big deal to them just not a good time to play. And I was pretty spoiled with Misfit's introduction to our house, he was 4 months old and our previous cat was almost 2 and uncommonly quiet and tolerant so at most with them there was some light hissing and that was it.

And Jonesy for his part, poor guy had to be way too confined for longer than I would have liked because of the vet shortage in my area, normally I would have done more site swapping after the first couple days and Jonesy would have had more exploring and visual contact with Misfit but the rescue couldn't restrain him for his FIV/FeLV test so I didn't want him using Misfit's litterbox or interacting with his dishes and things before I got that test done. And my partner was able to literally just come up and separate them, all he had to do was block with his body and Jonesy got the message not to follow Misfit. He's really such a sweet kitten, he reminds me a lot of how Misfit was when he came home. I'm hopeful!

 

[Alldara]

Julesbiscuits That sounds like it could even still be play that got a bit too rough.
The yowl meant "OMG back off!" And your partner reiterated that with their body and the boys were basically like, "Thanks for the help with that interaction." Because they couldn't manage it on their own.

Is Jonsey good to site swap now? Alternatively, you could partially site swap by bringing him to your room with a closed door and running him around. You can remove any of Misfits bowls or litters from that room first.

I definitely agree with Art though. They started learning that yowl means stop. Both learned that you and your partner are supporting them through the process. Misfit learned that he could exit play safely from Jonsey without being chased. All good things.

 

[Julesbiscuits]

Julesbiscuits That sounds like it could even still be play that got a bit too rough.
The yowl meant "OMG back off!" And your partner reiterated that with their body and the boys were basically like, "Thanks for the help with that interaction." Because they couldn't manage it on their own.

Is Jonsey good to site swap now? Alternatively, you could partially site swap by bringing him to your room with a closed door and running him around. You can remove any of Misfits bowls or litters from that room first.

I definitely agree with Art though. They started learning that yowl means stop. Both learned that you and your partner are supporting them through the process. Misfit learned that he could exit play safely from Jonsey without being chased. All good things.

He's all tested and everything was negative! So he's good to fully site swap now. There was definitely more than one yowl, I have to confess I've never seen a real cat fight in my life (despite having worked at a rescue) so I'm not great at identifying sounds but it sounded somewhere between a yowl and a screech, and again I'm not sure if it was Misfit or Jonesy that made that sound. But their demeanors afterwards definitely restored my confidence a little, Misfit at one point just a few minutes after was laying on his back in the living room all stretched out and chilling like he always does. Jonesy mostly ignored Misfit's protests from behind the door when we let him out again.

At points since we got him I've wished I got a chiller younger kitten but in the long term I just didn't think that would be a good call, Misfit is a lot of cat and I didn't want to risk getting a cat who would be easily bullied or overwhelmed by him.

This new guy is ironically better with the baby than Misfit is, obviously I don't let her interact with the cats much because she's way too young to understand how to be gentle but he seems to be pretty nonplussed about her. Misfit gets annoyed when she cries and walks away but Jonesy just kind of takes it in stride and goes about his business.

 

[Julesbiscuits]

We also got child safety handle locks for the doors (probably should have had them anyways, the baby will learn to walk soon!) so that there will be no more surprise interactions from the little rascals. We're going to site swap for the next few days and then figure out a more stable physical barrier for visual introductions later. I've also been tiring out Jonesy with wand toys when he's out, little dude has some pretty impressive backflips in his arsenal

 

[Julesbiscuits]

Ok, so today I put Jonesy in the bedroom I usually put Misfit in when I have Jonesy out and let Misfit explore the bathroom. He sniffed around a bit and then left, then got the zoomies because Jonesy was sticking his paws under the bedroom door (bathroom door and bedroom door are directly across from one another) it was his excited zoomies he usually gets at night! Then he went back to sniff in the bathroom some more and then I put him in the other bedroom and let Jonesy out to play and eat from his food puzzle. He also drank some of Jonesy's water! Jonesy doesn't seem that interested in Misfit's things or smell but he does put his paws under the bedroom door when Misfit meows.

Two questions: 1) Misfit doesn't play pawsies when Jonesy puts his paws under the door, just sits and watches. He does zoom over to see when Jonesy starts wiggling the door with his paws though! Is this good? No piloerection he just seems a little excited though.
2) I haven't had a kitten in awhile; am I supposed to be feeding him significantly more than I feed Misfit even though he's nearly a year old? I'm needing to feed Misfit a little less now because he gained a pound last year but normally I feed him 1/4 cup of dry food in the morning and 3oz wet food at night. Not enough for Mr. Jones right? I've been feeding him one more extra meal than Misfit gets but he still seems hungry.

 

[Alldara]

Julesbiscuits
Watching is the first step towards playing. You could try wiggling a little toy to show Misfit that Jonsey is playing. Sniffing his toes is also great. Make sure to praise and give pets for such good boi things!

Yes. We now know that cats can grow for up to 2 years. Jonsey should eat as much as he'd like for now. You'll keep an eye on his body condition. And the same for Misfit, because he might gain muscle when he starts wrestling with Jonsey and muscle weighs more than fat.

If Jonsey's body condition goes to about a 5, just maintain what he's eating. He might bulk up for a week or so before growing and thinning out from the grow.

How much to feed depends on genetics (metabolism), energy/activity level and age. So you'll likely have to continue to adjust over the next few years.

Our Calcifer rests comfortably between a 5 and 6. When we leave him there he has lots of energy and plays a lot...but if we try to bring him down to a full 5, he's lethargic and miserable. It's obvious that his body wants to rest a bit larger. So keep things like that in mind.

 

[Julesbiscuits]

Hey guys,

So today we set up two baby gates on the bedroom door and let the boys see each other from across a barrier with lick treats. It went well, both were easily distracted by their snack and we got them pretty much right up close to the gate. I didn't think either seemed stressed; once or twice Jonesy reached a paw through to I think see if he could get any from Misfit's dish but otherwise they didn't seem bothered. Misfit was definitely watching Jonesy more than the other way around but he was still willing to eat right next to him (Misfit does not eat at all at the vets office/when he's stressed so it's usually a pretty good gauge of how he's feeling).

The head scratcher for me is afterwards when we put Jonesy in the bathroom (and he started the mournful meows) and let Misfit out from the gate, he was trotting around/slinking around like he was afraid of something. I don't think anyone shook a plastic bag or started the vacuum (the two things that stress him out) so it must have been from the interaction, but there was nothing untoward during the visual meeting; they mostly ignored each other! Did I move the dishes up too fast? Neither one got puffy fur, there were no staredowns (when Misfit looked too long I called him back a few feet with his snack and he was happy to oblige and turn his back on Jonesy) and definitely no vocalizations, not even a meow.

Anyways, I was planning on doing it again tonight with their dinners but I'm wondering if we need to take another step back. Jonesy is fine, but Misfit seems a little put off.

 

[Julesbiscuits]

If it makes a difference, we did have Misfit in Jonesy's bathroom basecamp for awhile earlier while Jonesy was out, and my parents came to visit the baby and Jonesy so there was some activity before the session.

 

[Julesbiscuits]

Update: Misfit took a little coaxing but he came to nap on the couch with me and the baby; afterwards he climbed up his cat tree in the living room and is dozing there. I think the visual contact is a little challenging for him, but not overwhelming and Jonesy has definitely calmed down since being out with us more so I think Misfit just needs some time to see Jonesy act like a cat and not a bat out of hell I also think he feeds off my anxiety a bit, we've been through a lot together. So I think this next round I'll have my partner be on the side of the gate with Fitty and I'll be the one feeding Jonesy.

 

[Julesbiscuits]

 

[Julesbiscuits]

 

[Julesbiscuits]

Figured I'd show the boyos involved Fitty is the brown tabby, Jonesy is the orange tabby

 

[Julesbiscuits]

Well I'm confused... Misfit is slinking around like he's a little afraid when Jonesy meows at the bathroom door. But when I feed him treats near that door he seems ok. And he easily comes out from hiding when I call him. I'm not sure what could have put him off... If it was the meeting through the gate, he seemed unstressed during. My sister said he was sleeping on his cat tree all day and Jonesy was likely meowing for portions of that time. We had a lot happen around the apt the past few days but he's not usually like this other than when I start the vacuum and I haven't done that in weeks. He'll still eat his dinner in front of the bathroom door as well. It's a puzzle for sure...

What do I do? I certainly wasn't expecting this.

 

[Julesbiscuits]

Also, we did the feeding on opposite sides of the baby gate and while it was mostly uneventful, Jonesy began to stalk Misfit from behind the gate when he started to get full. My sister was able to distract him enough to end on a positive note though. Misfit didn't seem to notice him doing it. He also gets very upset when we try to put him back in the bathroom and he doesn't feel ready to go/is too riled up. Obviously I'm really stressed about this

I have this completely irrational fear that I brought home a kitty cat equivalent of a serial killer and ruined everyone's lives and I'll have to bring him back to the rescue. Again, probably irrational but I had to return a dog to the shelter last year because he had too strong a prey drive and some other issues as well and I felt so bad about it so now I'm so paranoid I'll have to do it again

 

[Alldara]

It's likely that he was slinking around to ensure his territory is in order. If it was just busy today the stress could be from that. Give him some extra love and playtime and keep some cat calming music going for him.

 

[Julesbiscuits]

Ok so here's a video of the session today (for science)

I don't think anyone needs to watch the whole thing lol, I mostly recorded it for myself but figured I'd put it here for posterity and so I can look back to encourage myself on progress. Just fyi I make a sound that sounds like the Cesar millan dog thing at one point, it was the only thing my brain could think of to get Fitty's attention it wasn't like some kind of correction or anything.

Aaaand this is right afterwards, he really hates the howling.

misfit 2/11/2023

 

[Julesbiscuits]

Guys, I'm having so much anxiety over this cat!

Tonight he attacked my ankles (no blood drawn but he held on and I had to really play dead to get him to stop) after I left the bathroom. I've been playing with him since and he's WILD. And I know that kittens are like this, I know that he's a bit lonely right now and that my anxiety about the whole situation is not helping at all but I don't know how to stop catastrophizing. I'm scared that he'll hurt Misfit or one of us. But I also don't know how much of this is a realistic assessment of the current state of things and how much is me being terrified of change and quitting any time anything is hard and not trusting myself to make the right decisions for my family. I'm afraid to bond with him at all because if I do it'll hurt if I have to give him up. I'm thinking of having my best friend and my partner do the intro tomorrow to remove my anxiety from the equation. I'm honestly a little afraid of him but I'm not 100% sure why? Maybe I need encouragement. I don't know, it's like I take one bad night and extrapolate it but then maybe my gut is right and this is an untenable situation. But my gut also said he was the right cat at the rescue. I don't know, I just feel so defeated.

 

[NekoM]

I’m going to be tough here. I was looking at misfits interaction on the other side of the gate. That’s not playing, that’s walking around bored. You have to match his energy, he needs to be running and jumping hardcore for at least 10 minutes, as many times as you can throughout the day, you need to completely exhaust him. It’ll get all his hunting instincts and kitten craziness out. If he gets a little overstimulated after you’ve stopped playing, start again. When your playing with him don’t use your hands to play/tease, he’ll associate them with fighting and attack your hand every time you try and interact with him, use a wand toy with something on the end to transfer his aggression too. A lot of his behavior is trying to connect with you, I guarantee he’s feeling ignored and neglected so he’ll get your attention anyway he can, he’s not aware he’s doing anything wrong.