Introducing new kittens to resident cat.

[ArtNJ]

A kitten running at the older cat doesn't count as it going poorly. A lot of them will really bug the older cats trying to play, play, play and not be deterred by the hissing. It really sounds to me like you are ready to let them work it out of their system with as much supervised time together as you can give.

 

[Grinchy]

Thank you for clarifying that. I think it's taking them a while to learn that Buffy isn't as excited as they are.

And I'm reassured that you feel it didn't go poorly. I was certain Ferius had ruined the successful feed.

Thank you for your supportive words.

 

[Grinchy]

Another Buffy update!

The kittens were playing in the sitting room and Buffy was asleep in the conservatory.

One of them ran into the French doors and woke Buffy up! I got the toy out and starting playing with them while Buffy watched.

She sat at the doors as if she wanted to come in. So I let her in!

She kept her distance, sniffed a bit, sat low to look at Ferius under the sofa.

Then she went to the exit of the sitting room and sat there for ages as I played with the kittens

My housemate gave her some treats and really praised her

When the kittens were done, I ended their playtime. Took them up.

Buffy was sniffing around the sitting room. We played with the toy then finished with treats.

I can't believe that Buffy wanted to come in and watch them for ages!!

No hissing or aggressive behaviour from any of the cats.

 

[Furballsmom]

I'm so pleased for you that Buffy is hanging in there with the little ones!!

 

[Grinchy]

Hi all,

Hope you are all well and having a good weekend.

A Buffy and kitten update...

We are now at the point where they can all eat in the same room or play in the same room or the kittens can play and Buffy watches them.

The problem now is the kittens... They don't respect Buffy's boundaries.

For example, two days ago, they were eating at opposite sides of the sitting room. Kellen crossed the sitting room to approach Buffy and her bowl. Buffy gave a warning hiss when Kellen backed off. Ten minutes later, she grabs Buffy's tail! Buffy hisses and swipes.

Today, Buffy was eating in their room and I was playing with them. Suddenly I heard Buffy hiss. Looked down and Ferius had come close to watch her. A few minutes later after Buffy had gone downstairs, the kittens went downstairs and Ferius ran at her. Hiss and swipe from Buffy.

So I'm not sure what can be done. They want to play with her and be friends, but not getting the first warning hiss.

 

[ArtNJ]

See post #21 -- this is normal. It doesn't mean its going badly if the older cat is merely hissing in the moment. If she is hiding all day, not eating or using the box, or causing a hotspot, that would be going badly. I am not sure exactly how long its been since you decided to allow free interaction, but, even if they are headed for friendship, it can take a while. And they may not be headed for friendship. If its a slow march towards toleration, improvement will take longer. The slow march to toleration is unfortunate, but common. I guess we can say that is "going badly", even though its common, but I don't think its clear that is the path you are on yet.

 

[Grinchy]

Hi,

We don't allow free interaction as such.

We have the playing with toys at other ends of the room but one kitten breaks ranks and decides to go for Buffy's toy or food. Or even to play with her.

 

[ArtNJ]

Its natural to want to get them 100% of the way there via a process, but that cant always be done. There is often a need for them to work things out. And they often can. Time together will tell you what path you are on. Its certainly true that you don't want to end up on the slow road to toleration with lingering stress and wonder if there was something different you could have done, but at the same time, you've done a slow, what, 3 week process now? And things seem to be going ok, with just some lingering hisses. So I think sooner or later you need to take the next step.

Keep in mind that when you take the next step, there is an advantage to proceeding quickly to substantial and preferably unlimited interaction. Right now, the big cat is new to the kittens and they only see him in small doses. So there is an its Christmas Morning effect - with the kittens being extra excited to interact the way they do. With lots of time together, the big cat will also see chill sleepy kittens, and thats useful.

 

[Furballsmom]

So I'm not sure what can be done. They want to play with her and be friends, but not getting the first warning hiss.

As A ArtNJ has commented, they need to work things out. I think Buffy will teach them the boundaries but again, as mentioned, if the stress becomes too much and causes Buffy to overgroom, hide etc then a step or two back would be necessary.

I apologize if this has been mentioned but have you tried cat music for Buffy? Spotify has a collection of harp music for cats

 

[Grinchy]

Hi,

Yes it's been three weeks since I've brought them home. I was hoping that by next weekend, the kittens would be roaming the house without supervision - but I know it will take as long as it takes.

Thank you for your advice regarding the Christmas morning analogy. It does make a lot of sense.

I haven't tried cat music for Buffy. This is something I will look into today. Thank you for this idea.

As for the next step, do I just open the kitten room door and hope for the best?

 

[Furballsmom]

You're welcome

As for the next step, do I just open the kitten room door and hope for the best?

Artnj will have input for this, but when you do this keep an eye on Buffy for stress - you can only go as quickly with introductions as the slowest-adjusting cat can deal with things.

 

[ArtNJ]

To some extent, yes you just open the door and see what happens, yes. Kittens are protected by biological hard wiring - an adult cat will never have an intent to actually injure a true young kitten. So it goes a few different ways -- ideally, the adult cat will pin the kitten and make it squeal a tad, teaching it boundaries and manners. That turns out to be really helpful. The scared adults don't usually seem to have that in them though, which is unfortunate because things can linger longer. The scared ones usually just hiss, or hiss with a defensive swat if the kitten gets close. However, a few will charge and swat repeatedly, which is scary looking. You did mention that you had a charge & swat. That isn't remotely the same as intent to injure, but nonetheless it is sort of the one event where I don't have a lot of confidence telling people to just let them be. So if you let them interact and the adult really charges swiping madly, maybe best to continue the introduction for another week. You can ignore the more common variant where the adult just wants to be left alone and hisses if the kitten gets too close, maybe gives a "back off" swat or two. So you just watch and making sure things doesn't escalate, not leaving them alone when you are out of the house or at night until you've watched a few times for a few hours and things seem stable. Even though the kitten won't be hurt, once in a while it just won't look right with the adult really seeming interested in going after the kitten, and there, better safe than sorry.

 

[Grinchy]

Hi,

I have a phenomenal update!

During the 6am feed, I led Kellen the excitable kitten away. Buffy came to their bowls to eat. She was eating six inches from Ferius!!

After Ferius are, she walked past Buffy and groomed with her back to Buffy. Buffy was totally chilled.

Silly Kellen went up to Buffy, two inches from her nose to eat from her bowl. Buffy hissed and Kellen backed off.

Ferius then jumped over the food bowls to go into my room, and Buffy didn't care. Then Ferius ran to the stairs. Buffy charged past Ferius and stayed at the bottom of the stairs. This made me realise that Buffy doesn't want to attack them or likes them when they're too quick. This gave me the confidence to try something....


After breakfast, Buffy was sleeping in her hammock in the sitting room. We brought Ferius in and quietly played with her on the shelves at the other side of the room.

Buffy got up and responded well to treats and playing. No dramas and it was good for Buffy and Ferius to observe each other.

Then around 4pm, both kittens were sleeping in the sitting room, at top of the cat tree and shelves. We allowed Buffy in. She did a little exploring then settled to sleep in her chair in the conservatory.

We did the 5pm feed in the sitting room, since they were all there already. We removed Kellen when she had finished and started showing signs of curiosity with Buffy's food bowl.

Buffy approached their food bowls when Ferius walked away.

I'm so impressed with Buffy's progress today. This weekend I've learnt:

- They can coexist at different levels in the same room
- Buffy does not want to injure the kittens
- If we carefully manage Kellen, we can enable Ferius to be the social bridge

Thanks for all of your advice and support.
-

 

[Furballsmom]

WOOHOO, you are awesome!!

 

[Grinchy]

WOOHOO, you are awesome!!

I couldn't have done it without your help and experience.

I'm so grateful for time and advice I've had on here.

It's help calm my anxiety and give me tools to draw on to help my cats live in harmony.

 

[Grinchy]

Hi,

Hope all is well. I have a weird update.

Feedings have been going well. There hasn't been much interaction because I'm on my own in the week, so I've played with Ferius on the shelves whilst throwing Buffy treats or playing with Buffy on the ground whilst Ferius plays with a toy.

Today, Buffy darted in from outdoors and came in. Saw Ferius in the sitting room and Kellen on the stairs.

She ran towards Kellen but not aggressively. I scooped Kellen up and Buffy shot past to go into their room and eat their biscuits.

I took the two kittens and put them in the shelves in their room whilst Buffy ate. Buffy ignored them. I removed Kellen because she kept trying to walk to Buffy

I played with Ferius and Ferius jumped on the ground to play. Buffy not bothered and left when she finished.

Later, the kittens are around the house and Buffy is with me in my room. As I leave for a bit, Buffy darts out. She meets Kellen in the hallway and gets angry!! Hisses, swipes then runs away.

Kellen is uninjured and tries to walk towards Buffy. Buffy goes to the French doors and wants to leave so I let her out to decompress.

I'm at a loss at her reaction to Kellen tonight. It really shocked me to see her so aggressive on a kitten.

Do I need to focus the introductions on Kellen now?

 

[ArtNJ]

That sounds like . . . business as usual. You can't get them all the way, because face to face is always going to be more stressful than what came before. A hiss, swipe and run away is a normal reaction.

At bottom, my view of what happened is very simple. If they are ready or face to face then let them work it out, ignoring stuff like this which is normal. If they are not ready for face to face, then letting them get face to face was a mistake in your process.

It sounds to me like maybe you are doing some in between thing where you let them be together only if they are going to behave perfectly and not hiss or swat? Its natural for you to want to get them all the way where you can back off and they will be all good together, but it doesn't work like that. Once you have done what you can, you have to let them do the rest.

What do I mean *exactly*? Well if you are letting them see each other separated by a baby gate blocking the kittens room, and there is no hissing all day, and you do feedings on opposite sides of the gate as well as some guides recommend, and there is no hissing, then you are ready. But when you are ready you are ready, you allow them to mingle together when you are home and can deal with it if there is an actual problem. And at that point, if they hiss or swat, they hiss or swat. You did what you could be ensuring that the final step wasn't doing any additional work. At that point, all that was left that you could do was let them work it out -- you are only there if things escalate to something more like an actual fight.

 

[Grinchy]

Hi.

Thank you for your excellent, insightful advice.

There is a lot of sense in what you say.

I'll let Buffy calm down and see if I can bring the kittens in tomorrow and see if they work it out

Thank you.

 

[Furballsmom]

Kellen is uninjured and tries to walk towards Buffy.

To further support Artnj's thinking, if Kellen had been frightened by Buffy, this wouldn't have happened

 

[Grinchy]

Yes I admire her gumption. It just got a little scary with Buffy bashing up a cornered kitten.