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Beyond Confused

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Saturday afternoon:

I had to share this!
I just woke up from a nap to find both boys sleeping on the bed with me - Duncan curled up, smooshed up next to me (half way down the bed), and Indy curled up on the blanket at the end of the bed. Everyone was relaxed, and there was no drama!

I can't even believe what I just witnessed! :catlove:
 

calicosrspecial

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Saturday afternoon:

I had to share this!
I just woke up from a nap to find both boys sleeping on the bed with me - Duncan curled up, smooshed up next to me (half way down the bed), and Indy curled up on the blanket at the end of the bed. Everyone was relaxed, and there was no drama!

I can't even believe what I just witnessed! :catlove:
:D :hyper: :yess: :clap2: 😍 :rock:

SPECIAL moment!!! :catlove:
 

kissthisangel

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Maze is going to be craving cat attention right now and doesn't care really if that attention is negative. The hissing only from Monty is a really positive sign. If Monty was REALLY unhappy with Maze, she would pin her and possibly not let up the chase until she was sure Maze was not coming back. Other Scent swapping techniques use cardboard, t shirts and bedding to ensure the cats are fully aware of one another and feeding by the door is excellent. Site swapping is also good if your new cat is confident and showing signs they want to get to know their new home quicker. This means Monty gets some solitary in Maze's room and Maze gets the rest of the house. Watch Monty, not Maze. As soon as Monty is no longer curious and wants out, swap them back, for at least the first 4 times or so. Until Maze is bigger, block off any cornering points, make sure any "runs" are clear, like behind sofas, and make sure you don't run out of treats. The mutual play is a great tool even if Monty isn't that keen. To be honest, The closest mine have ever got has been one each side of my legs in bed. toleration is sometimes the most you can achieve.
 

pearl99

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Saturday afternoon:

I had to share this!
I just woke up from a nap to find both boys sleeping on the bed with me - Duncan curled up, smooshed up next to me (half way down the bed), and Indy curled up on the blanket at the end of the bed. Everyone was relaxed, and there was no drama!

I can't even believe what I just witnessed! :catlove:
Oh my gosh!!! WOW!! All your hard work. Yay you Duncan and Indy! :bliss:

My Ziggy is also on the home stretch and out a lot with no issues. Feeling good.
 

calicosrspecial

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Maze is going to be craving cat attention right now and doesn't care really if that attention is negative. The hissing only from Monty is a really positive sign. If Monty was REALLY unhappy with Maze, she would pin her and possibly not let up the chase until she was sure Maze was not coming back. Other Scent swapping techniques use cardboard, t shirts and bedding to ensure the cats are fully aware of one another and feeding by the door is excellent. Site swapping is also good if your new cat is confident and showing signs they want to get to know their new home quicker. This means Monty gets some solitary in Maze's room and Maze gets the rest of the house. Watch Monty, not Maze. As soon as Monty is no longer curious and wants out, swap them back, for at least the first 4 times or so. Until Maze is bigger, block off any cornering points, make sure any "runs" are clear, like behind sofas, and make sure you don't run out of treats. The mutual play is a great tool even if Monty isn't that keen. To be honest, The closest mine have ever got has been one each side of my legs in bed. toleration is sometimes the most you can achieve.
Exactly correct.

"To be honest, The closest mine have ever got has been one each side of my legs in bed." - That is very good

" toleration is sometimes the most you can achieve." - Exactly!!!

As long as cats are happy that is what matters.
 

pearl99

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To be honest, The closest mine have ever got has been one each side of my legs in bed. toleration is sometimes the most you can achieve.
Yes very true. 2 of mine play with each other and the rest of the various combos between the 4 is tolerance.
 

calicosrspecial

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That would make me really sad, if these two never learn to love each other.
I know. :/ I have been there in the past but I realized all we can do is try our best and create the best environment. Just as in relationships in humans, sometimes it works, sometimes it is one-sided and sometimes neither gets there. But we all (mostly) tend to accept and find the most positive situation. I have had so many cats over the years that loved, that didn't love but tolerated that I guess I realized as long as they are enjoying life and have it better than the alternative then I have succeeded. But I know, it is tough.

I get every sense Indy loves Duncan so you are half way there. I just wonder if Indy is going to win him over........................Indy is a pretty good diplomat so let's see if his love skills are just as good. He is awfully cute!!!! I feel in love with both of them!!!
 

pearl99

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I agree with C calicosrspecial . Mooshoo really won Waffles over with some months of time so with a kitten/youngster like Indy I believe it is more possible.
And Waffles seems to like Ziggy but Ziggy needs more time to go further.
 

Beyond Confused

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Monday:

I've decided I'm going to take the gates down today. I'm sick of looking at them, and things seem to be going OK.
There have been some mild dust ups this morning, but nothing serious.
I'll still leave the litter box in the bathroom and a towel in the sink for Indy because that's where I'll keep him at night. If he starts getting too rambunctious, as he does, I'll put him in the bedroom or bathroom for a cooling off period.

I'm thinking that I might see how it goes with him in the house Thursday night, since I don't have to be up super early. Fingers crossed he doesn't lose his mind, attack Duncan or play loudly while I try to sleep.
 

calicosrspecial

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Monday:

I've decided I'm going to take the gates down today. I'm sick of looking at them, and things seem to be going OK.
There have been some mild dust ups this morning, but nothing serious.
I'll still leave the litter box in the bathroom and a towel in the sink for Indy because that's where I'll keep him at night. If he starts getting too rambunctious, as he does, I'll put him in the bedroom or bathroom for a cooling off period.

I'm thinking that I might see how it goes with him in the house Thursday night, since I don't have to be up super early. Fingers crossed he doesn't lose his mind, attack Duncan or play loudly while I try to sleep.
"I've decided I'm going to take the gates down today." - I think that is a good idea. They can always go back up if needed.

"I'm sick of looking at them" - Yep, I have been there many times.

"and things seem to be going OK." - I think it is going really well.

"There have been some mild dust ups this morning, but nothing serious." - Dust ups happen but as long as they resolve it (even with a little help) that is fine. I think there base is solid so if even it was "serious" I don't think it would be a real issue.

"I'll still leave the litter box in the bathroom and a towel in the sink for Indy because that's where I'll keep him at night." - I think that is good since moving litter boxes can cause stress.

"If he starts getting too rambunctious, as he does, I'll put him in the bedroom or bathroom for a cooling off period." - That is fine. He reacts well to that. Ideally if Duncan could be in the bedroom and Indy in the sunroom looking out that would be ideal. I expect he will get a bit rambunctious for a little while longer. :/

"I'm thinking that I might see how it goes with him in the house Thursday night since I don't have to be up super early. " - Good plan. I think he is ready and that is good timing.

"Fingers crossed he doesn't lose his mind, attack Duncan or play loudly while I try to sleep." - Well, he will probably play and he may try to join you and Duncan in bed. He wont "attack" Duncan BUT he might try to get him to play. It is always a bit of a transition but has to be done.

He is a good cat, loves Duncan, Duncan is really coming along trusting him. They are going to be just fine though expect some craziness in the short term.

You have done a really great job!!!
 

calicosrspecial

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Thank you! I couldn't have done it without your help. It's been much appreciated.
You are very welcome. I really appreciate your kind words.

Your dedication and efforts is why it worked. You definitely deserve all the credit. I am so proud of you and of Duncan and Indy. Your efforts are so much appreciated.

Seeing a happy family is the greatest joy of all.

Always here if you need us. There will be some minor blips but they will be able to be handled.

:rock:
 

Beyond Confused

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Thursday evening:

Well - last night was going to be the first night where I tried keeping Indy out overnight. Unfortunately, he badgered Duncan so much that Duncan ended up vomiting 2x before bed. Back in the bathroom, Indy went! <sigh>
 

calicosrspecial

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Thursday evening:

Well - last night was going to be the first night where I tried keeping Indy out overnight. Unfortunately, he badgered Duncan so much that Duncan ended up vomiting 2x before bed. Back in the bathroom, Indy went! <sigh>
:( Poor Duncan.

It was too big of a change for him. :( He was doing so well.

How are they doing during the day? Are the baby gates are down?

Is it possible to have Duncan in your bedroom with the door closed at night and have Indy in the rest of the house including the bathroom? Duncan would need a litter box in the bedroom though.

Was the badgering still the same play badgering?

Did Duncan sleep ok last night after that? How is Duncan doing today? Just give him a lot of extra love.
 

Beyond Confused

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:( Poor Duncan.

It was too big of a change for him. :( He was doing so well.

How are they doing during the day? Are the baby gates are down?

Is it possible to have Duncan in your bedroom with the door closed at night and have Indy in the rest of the house including the bathroom? Duncan would need a litter box in the bedroom though.

Was the badgering still the same play badgering?

Did Duncan sleep ok last night after that? How is Duncan doing today? Just give him a lot of extra love.
Yes, the baby gates are down, and Indy is out all day, while I'm home. He's been in the bathroom at night.

And yes, I can absolutely keep Duncan in the bedroom with me at night with the door closed. I've done that plenty, and he's always just fine.

I'm not sure exactly what happened. I heard them bickering, and Indy just wouldn't leave him alone. Next thing I heard was Duncan wretching in the other room. By the time I'd gotten out there, he was going for round 2.

Duncan slept with me part of the night and in his carrier the other part. He's been acting OK, and he's his usual sweet self today.
Right after he threw up last night, I immediately put Indy back in the bathroom. Duncan came right around after, so he wasn't cowering somewhere.

I also saw that Indy had Duncan cornered in the kitchen yesterday. I walked out in time to soosh Indy away.
 

calicosrspecial

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Yes, the baby gates are down, and Indy is out all day, while I'm home. He's been in the bathroom at night.

I'm not sure exactly what happened. I heard them bickering, and Indy just wouldn't leave him alone. Next thing I heard was Duncan wretching in the other room. By the time I'd gotten out there, he was going for round 2.

Duncan slept with me part of the night and in his carrier the other part. He's been acting OK, and he's his usual sweet self today.
Right after he threw up last night, I immediately put Indy back in the bathroom. Duncan came right around after, so he wasn't cowering somewhere.

I also saw that Indy had Duncan cornered in the kitchen yesterday. I walked out in time to soosh Indy away.
"Yes, the baby gates are down, and Indy is out all day, while I'm home. He's been in the bathroom at night." - Great

"And yes, I can absolutely keep Duncan in the bedroom with me at night with the door closed. I've done that plenty, and he's always just fine. " - Great, I am thinking that is the way we should go.

"I'm not sure exactly what happened. I heard them bickering, and Indy just wouldn't leave him alone. Next thing I heard was Duncan wretching in the other room. By the time I'd gotten out there, he was going for round 2." - How long did it last? I wonder if he just had something in his throat like a hairball, etc? Maybe it wasn't as bad of a reaction as I imagined? I was surprised to read that he responded that way.

"Duncan slept with me part of the night and in his carrier the other part. He's been acting OK, and he's his usual sweet self today.
Right after he threw up last night, I immediately put Indy back in the bathroom. Duncan came right around after, so he wasn't cowering somewhere." - OK, great. That is great to hear. Sounds like it wasn't as negative as I first thought.

"I also saw that Indy had Duncan cornered in the kitchen yesterday. I walked out in time to soosh Indy away." - Yep, they will do that. Great job in sooshing him away. How did Duncan act after that? That is always the "tell".

I don't fear Indy will do anything intentionally to harm Duncan. BUT he will be a brat for a while. :/ Though Duncan does seem to be handling him very well. Duncan is such a sweetheart but he'll tell Indy more in the future.
 

Beyond Confused

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"I'm not sure exactly what happened. I heard them bickering, and Indy just wouldn't leave him alone. Next thing I heard was Duncan wretching in the other room. By the time I'd gotten out there, he was going for round 2." - How long did it last? I wonder if he just had something in his throat like a hairball, etc? Maybe it wasn't as bad of a reaction as I imagined? I was surprised to read that he responded that way.
I'm not sure how long it lasted. They had eaten dinner. Indy was in the dining room, and Duncan eats his next to my chair, so I can keep an eye on him. Maybe 15-20 minutes later, that's when Indy started pestering him. His food may not have settled prior to that, but there are just too many special things I have to keep doing in order to keep Indy from causing trouble.

For example: He's absolutely obsessed with food or anything that he perceives could be food. Since Duncan started having his stomach issues, I've kept his food bowl next to where I sit, so I can ensure he's eating a decent amount. As I've said before, he eats little bits at a time and comes back regularly. It's always worked for him, and Admiral never had issues with food. Indy, though, will steal Duncan's food when I'm not looking, so I always have to have the presence of mind to make sure the bowl is put up...but then I also have to keep putting it down and monitoring it when Duncan wants to eat more. Who has time for that? And obviously, I won't be able to do this once I go back to work.

Now, it looks like I might have to put Indy up for an hour or so at dinner time, so Duncan can freely eat and let his food settle before Indy starts being a brat.

Duncan takes medication in the mornings, so I keep Indy in the bathroom, while Duncan's medicine settles. Indy's in there screaming his head off.

I mean, it's one thing after another. It's so frustrating, and I don't know what to do. Like I said, it's a pain now, but logistically, I can't imagine how all these rules can possible work once I head back to the office full time.


"Duncan slept with me part of the night and in his carrier the other part. He's been acting OK, and he's his usual sweet self today.
Right after he threw up last night, I immediately put Indy back in the bathroom. Duncan came right around after, so he wasn't cowering somewhere." - OK, great. That is great to hear. Sounds like it wasn't as negative as I first thought.


"I also saw that Indy had Duncan cornered in the kitchen yesterday. I walked out in time to soosh Indy away." - Yep, they will do that. Great job in sooshing him away. How did Duncan act after that? That is always the "tell".
He quickly ran out of the kitchen, but then he seemed okay.


But like right now, Indy is quietly playing in the sun room, while I work. Duncan is sleeping in his carrier in the living room. At one point, Indy sprawled out in front of the carrier, essentially blocking Duncan in. Duncan did a low growl for probably a minute and a half before Indy got up and headed toward the cedar chest to look out the living room window.

So there are positives, but I just really wonder how the issues above will play out in the somewhat near future.
 

calicosrspecial

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I'm not sure how long it lasted. They had eaten dinner. Indy was in the dining room, and Duncan eats his next to my chair, so I can keep an eye on him. Maybe 15-20 minutes later, that's when Indy started pestering him. His food may not have settled prior to that, but there are just too many special things I have to keep doing in order to keep Indy from causing trouble.

For example: He's absolutely obsessed with food or anything that he perceives could be food. Since Duncan started having his stomach issues, I've kept his food bowl next to where I sit, so I can ensure he's eating a decent amount. As I've said before, he eats little bits at a time and comes back regularly. It's always worked for him, and Admiral never had issues with food. Indy, though, will steal Duncan's food when I'm not looking, so I always have to have the presence of mind to make sure the bowl is put up...but then I also have to keep putting it down and monitoring it when Duncan wants to eat more. Who has time for that? And obviously, I won't be able to do this once I go back to work.

Now, it looks like I might have to put Indy up for an hour or so at dinner time, so Duncan can freely eat and let his food settle before Indy starts being a brat.

Duncan takes medication in the mornings, so I keep Indy in the bathroom, while Duncan's medicine settles. Indy's in there screaming his head off.

I mean, it's one thing after another. It's so frustrating, and I don't know what to do. Like I said, it's a pain now, but logistically, I can't imagine how all these rules can possible work once I head back to the office full time.


"Duncan slept with me part of the night and in his carrier the other part. He's been acting OK, and he's his usual sweet self today.
Right after he threw up last night, I immediately put Indy back in the bathroom. Duncan came right around after, so he wasn't cowering somewhere." - OK, great. That is great to hear. Sounds like it wasn't as negative as I first thought.




He quickly ran out of the kitchen, but then he seemed okay.


But like right now, Indy is quietly playing in the sun room, while I work. Duncan is sleeping in his carrier in the living room. At one point, Indy sprawled out in front of the carrier, essentially blocking Duncan in. Duncan did a low growl for probably a minute and a half before Indy got up and headed toward the cedar chest to look out the living room window.

So there are positives, but I just really wonder how the issues above will play out in the somewhat near future.
"I'm not sure how long it lasted." - ok

"They had eaten dinner. Indy was in the dining room, and Duncan eats his next to my chair, so I can keep an eye on him. Maybe 15-20 minutes later, that's when Indy started pestering him. His food may not have settled prior to that" - That makes sense. I am guessing that is what happened.

"but there are just too many special things I have to keep doing in order to keep Indy from causing trouble." - During the day?

"For example: He's absolutely obsessed with food or anything that he perceives could be food. Since Duncan started having his stomach issues, I've kept his food bowl next to where I sit, so I can ensure he's eating a decent amount. As I've said before, he eats little bits at a time and comes back regularly. It's always worked for him, and Admiral never had issues with food. Indy, though, will steal Duncan's food when I'm not looking, so I always have to have the presence of mind to make sure the bowl is put up...but then I also have to keep putting it down and monitoring it when Duncan wants to eat more. Who has time for that? And obviously, I won't be able to do this once I go back to work." - Yes, I have similar issues to that. Some cats like one of mine are so food obsessed. I would try to step up feeding Indy and try to watch his weight. Some of it has to do with "it is someone's else so I want it" and some may have to do with "I eat everything in site". The former wears off in time while the later increased portions can do it.

Duncan has special food, correct?

"Now, it looks like I might have to put Indy up for an hour or so at dinner time, so Duncan can freely eat and let his food settle before Indy starts being a brat." - That is a good idea. I actually have to do that at times. I usually just hang out with them, or play with them in another room, etc.

"Duncan takes medication in the mornings, so I keep Indy in the bathroom, while Duncan's medicine settles. Indy's in there screaming his head off." - Yes, once they get the taste of freedom....................... Does Duncan ignore his screaming pretty well?

"I mean, it's one thing after another. It's so frustrating" - I know. I have been there many times.

"and I don't know what to do." - I understand. I think all you are doing then we'll adjust as needed. I suspect this incident is a "one off" or more rare thing. I suspect this was just a bad coincidence.

"Like I said, it's a pain now, but logistically, I can't imagine how all these rules can possible work once I head back to the office full time." - Usually the cats tend to just sleep when the humans are gone. I wouldn't worry too much about that. The fear tends to be worse then reality. I have done a lot of these for myself and others and what you are dealing with is actually better than most. And I don't sense the issues that would cause real problems. These issues are annoying but I don't think they are worrying. If that makes sense. It is kind of hard to explain but when you do many of these you just know.

"He quickly ran out of the kitchen, but then he seemed okay." - Ok, great If there were issues this would not be happening. And we wouldn't be this far along. I did an intro with a new boy and my old girl. My new boy LOVED to corner her, etc. I didn't realize it but it was all a game. She actually would instigate to get him to chase and corner later on. It seems weird to us but to cats it can be fun. Now, I am not sure that is Duncan's situation BUT I get a sense Duncan isn't fearing Indy and realizes it is just playing around (annoyingly). If Duncan was acting differently then I would be concerned but everything Duncan is doing is telling me they are just fine Of course, the throwing up was a jolt but I get a sense it was a one off bad confluence of circumstances. But we will watch and respond accordingly.

"But like right now, Indy is quietly playing in the sun room, while I work. Duncan is sleeping in his carrier in the living room. At one point, Indy sprawled out in front of the carrier, essentially blocking Duncan in. Duncan did a low growl for probably a minute and a half before Indy got up and headed toward the cedar chest to look out the living room window." - This is exactly why I am not worried. If they had issues and there wasn't an understanding there is no way this would happen. We are dealing with a cat (Indy) that is energetic, social and loves Duncan. Duncan is more a "human's cat". He loves you. BUT he is doing a lot better than I ever imagined in accepting Indy. But it sure seems to me like he views Indy as an annoying little brother (sibling). I just don't think they have "issues". I don't read anything to suggest issues and this incident totally supports that as you rightly point out.

"So there are positives" - Totally agree.

" but I just really wonder how the issues above will play out in the somewhat near future." - I think you will see continued success and progress. Indy will settle down and Duncan will teach him what is appropriate. Like the growl by the carrier. Indy is learning.

I would not worry about the future at all. They are well past the risk point. It doesn't mean we don't need to "correct" at times and shoosh Indy etc but their base/foundation of trust is strong. I just don't see Indy as a mean cat and I can't see Duncan harming Indy. They definitely respect each other and that is most important. And Indy seems to really love Duncan which is why I am so confident all is well.
 

Beyond Confused

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Duncan has special food, correct?
Yes, but they eat the same food - It's the RX Purina EN, which is a bland diet.


"Like I said, it's a pain now, but logistically, I can't imagine how all these rules can possible work once I head back to the office full time." - Usually the cats tend to just sleep when the humans are gone. I wouldn't worry too much about that. The fear tends to be worse then reality. I have done a lot of these for myself and others and what you are dealing with is actually better than most. And I don't sense the issues that would cause real problems. These issues are annoying but I don't think they are worrying. If that makes sense. It is kind of hard to explain but when you do many of these you just know.
Yes, but a huge concern that I have is feeding Duncan. Because he eats so little, I've always had to leave his food out, so he can graze throughout the day. Feeding him 2 or 3 times a day isn't really something I can do. So how in the world do I keep Indy out of his food bowl when I head back to work?
 
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