Introducing new adult cat to older residental cat

[cat nap]

I am not bored at all!! You're the only person here who was willing to listen and help me, even though I'm sure my situation is quite common and probably posted often here. I just worry it's too much work for you. I actually look forward to your responses and reread them to remind myself of what to do. Im sorry I wrote so much, but it's because today it seemed different than usual, and I don't want to have NC start becoming more aggressive or bullying RC. I write out every detail in case I miss out any important information. Please don't feel obligated to give detailed reply to everything, if it's not trouble I'd just love to know if there are warning signs I need to look at for due to this new behavior.

Okay, great. Cat introductions are quite common, ..but really no two cat intros are alike. That's why I find them fascinating.
(Don't worry, it's not too much work for me. T.V has nothing but rubbish on, and I tend to binge watch shows anyway...only when I know a t.v. show is good. Plus I get a lot of satisfaction, when I see photos of the cats online, and videos, and hear how they are progressing, too. It's enjoyable for me.)

I actually like that you wrote out a detailed and long post, ..because then I can visualize it...and see if there are any patterns.
It makes it way easier to respond, when it's detailed.

A detail I forgot was that prior to the lunge incident, I used some cat nip to have her sit on a new bed. RC doesn't react to car nip at all but NC gets pretty happy with it. I read sometimes cat nip can make a cat more hyper or riled up, so I wonder if that also made the later situation worse.

At the meal time after all these incidents, they both ate with no issue after I moved their bowls a little closer. She has not hissed at him for the last 2 days of meal time being 6 ft apart. Now they are 5 ft apart.

Yes, definitely spot on about the cat nip.
(with mine, too, the male gets very riled up...and hyper, ...while the female just tends to roll around.)
I think you are so right, that NC was probably feeling way more hyped, happy, and then could have also been a bit aggressive after the cat nip.
I never really noticed how long it takes for cat nip to wear off in my own cats. They do crash and sleep afterwards.
It's good that you remembered that...since I also don't know how long cat nip stays on toys...or on fabric, beds, floors, etc.

5 feet is a good distance to eat apart. Is this still done through the gate?
(I personally don't think that cats have to eat so close together...after they are introduced and no longer have a gate between them.)

(Mine eat about four feet apart...with a two foot space between them. I want them to have some space, and feel comfortable.)
With the intros, ....I think the suggestion is getting them to eat closer...so that Trust can be built up...
plus they associate good food with each other, too.
So yeah, this part is going well.

Last night during free roam, they had 2 mistake confrontations. 1st was NC exploring the tub in my bedroom bathroom, and RC was watching from afar but he must not understand cat language as he thought she was playing (RC sometimes play in the tub). He run up to the tub in non-stalking nor aggressive way, but NC turned around and saw him. Of course she was startled and hiss/growled and swatted him. I couldn't see well if it made contact and NC's body language. RC was startled too and ran off. NC stayed in the tub for a bit after before leaving as well but she didn't growl or hiss after he left.

This is where it gets interesting to me.
Because we humans don't really know all the little things that cat's do to communicate. We cannot actually see it all.
They use smell, body language, body movement, sound,...and so many small details that we can't really notice, at the time.

I don't actually think these confrontations were mistakes...because the more both cats get to meet and interact...and still they choose to come back together, again,...then that just tells you that they are way past the intro stage...that we think they are in.

I do understand that you want to make sure that NC does not become aggressive and bullies RC...but since you are doing well at making the observations, and stepping in when you have to with Distraction...then basically you are creating some very good 'house rules' for them both to follow.
Both cats have Confidence in you because you are calm, and they know from your calm energy...that things will be okay.

I find it really cute that your older RC wanted to run and play with NC.
Yes, it scared her, but she didn't let it linger and continue to growl, or hiss...after he left,...like you said.
She might have been surprised that he ran out so fast.

2nd was when I opened a drawer, NC always curious went inside. She's thin enough to and even squeezed into the space behind the drawer. Of course I started trying to coax her out, which got RC's attention to see what's going on. He wanted over and took a peek, and NC inside hissed and tried to swat at him again while growling. RC ran off once more. Both cats seem fine after.

This one made me smile and laugh a bit.
Because I could just picture your NC exploring, and getting inside the drawer...and thinking it's the perfect den to sleep in. Like a little cat den, all protected on all sides. (my male cat likes to go inside an armoire, and clothes closet...and snooze the day away. All dark and quiet.)

Because RC showed up, ...and NC felt cornered and could not escape...then it's only natural that she would hiss and try to swat at him while growling.
I'm actually surprised that she didn't hiss, swat and growl at you. It would be the natural thing to do...if she got too scared from being inside.

(I'll continue on the next post)....

 

[cat nap]

The last incident is the most puzzling one which made me end free roam time today. NC likes climbing so I've been trying to redirect her to use the cat tree instead of the fridge. She understood well and climbed all the way to the top. She was kind of chilling until RC cat saw she was up there and also wanted to hang at the cat tree. He jumped up to the 2nd ledge (there are 4 ledges total, NC was on highest 4th ledge and RC is on 2nd from the ground ledge). He was gonna look out the window but this time NC was the one really focused on staring at RC. Soon RC was looking at NC too but we kept trying to wave toys to distract them which only worked a tiny bit (I know play distraction works for others but it really doesn't work for them much). After a few minutes of that NC actually made the move of coming down to the 3rd ledge, and then hiss/growl/swatted at RC. RC got startled and ran off once more. NC was tense for a minute and then was distracted by noises outside and I went to comfort RC. After NC calmed down I lured her back to her room and ended free roam time.

This one, you're right, is a little confusing.

On the one hand, you have RC who is definitely not scared of NC, after the earlier incidents...since he sees her and decides that he too wants to hang out on the cat tree. That means that he wasn't bothered by those previous incidents...the way us humans might have been.
For cats, it's just another business as usual.
No bad feelings or anything, from previously.

Then he stays lower, ...but what I am not too sure about is 'does he want NC to move'?
Is he trying to get her attention, in a sort of way ?....where you think that NC is causing the first reactions...but really RC is the one who chose to get close to her...and near to her space.

Yes, when the staring and hyper focusing happens...it really is difficult to distract them with toys.
With toys...Even if they are distracted just momentarily...then that is a good thing.
**You could try a large piece of cardboard...put between them...to break their line of sight.
Or even a pillow between them ..also may break their line of sight.

In the future, you'll be able to distract them with your voice, clapping, or a pillow thrown in an opposite direction...but for now...that would only scare them.
And it's kind of good, that you let it play out...to see what would happen.

Because nothing too awful, actually did happen...if it was only hiss, growl and swat...and RC runs away.
Was there a lot of growling and loud vocalizations from NC?
Did she manage to swat RC really hard...to hurt him?
Because NC did not run after RC...it does not sound like she wanted to hurt him...or fight with him.

What confuses me, is,...I'm not sure if she was being territorial over that cat tree...and claiming it as her own
or...was she just trying to get him to move away from her.
That's where it's really difficult to know...how much of a 'space bubble' each cat is willing to allow another strange cat into.
And when they do get to be close friends...some still have 'their personal bubble cat space'...depending on each cat's personality.
They are really amazing small animals.

I'm really not sure what's going on, and it's hard to not let me bias and human emotions get in the way. Of course I have more bias to RC since he's been nothing but perfect cat, and seeing him run off and hide under coffee table or behind car stools and looking pitiful makes me feel so bad for him. Meanwhile I'm not sure how to manage NC because even tho it's suppose to be scared, she often goes into his space or goes towards him and then get mad. Play distraction works maybe once and it only lasts momentarily before they're back to being focused on eachother.

I think what you are feeling is quite normal.
If you were not feeling these emotions, some stress, worry, anxiety, compassion...then I'd be more concerned...that you'd be a robot or something.

It's so natural that you want your RC to be okay and safe...and at the same time make NC understand that she is also safe and secure.
You want them both to get along, and not have any tension, stress, or fear.
The only thing is ...that with cat intros....having tension, stress and fear ...is so natural for a cat.
(and I guess it's so natural for us humans too...since you care so much for their well being.)

Just remember to keep in your mind,...that the cat intros...do not last forever...and that each day...does get better.
But it never seems to be in a straight line.
It's like a roller coaster, ...with up days...and down days...rough spots...and then smooth spots.

More Routine, Repetition, and working on what another knowledgeable Cat site member named 'Calicosrspecial'...who works with feral cats...calls the "Play, Food, Height, Love"...method. ( I remember it by the acronym...Play For Her Love)
Playing... makes good positive feelings and associations in cats,... Food/treats do too...and is used for added rewards and positive associations...and the Height...is any special spaces for the cats that are either high, low, or safe...with Love ...being obvious from slow blinks, to spending time with our cats, to patting, brushing, or just being near, or allowing them space and freedom to be how they are. (Calicosrspecial explains it way better than me, ...so if you come across any of her posts...they are very informative to read.)

"Meanwhile I'm not sure how to manage NC because even tho it's suppose to be scared, she often goes into his space or goes towards him and then get mad. Play distraction works maybe once and it only lasts momentarily before they're back to being focused on eachother."
Actually, you already are managing NC...since by doing the things you've already described...above...you are lessening her fear responses.

You have a Plan in place, ..you both are doing the Playing,...and the spending the time, plus the food...and each day is a new day...so there will be slight pauses, or days that feel like set backs,..but then progress is made.
You'll look back...and see the progress.

Even now, if you look back....so much progress has been made...that I am truly and pleasantly impressed because your cat intros are going much, much faster than any I have read ...with older cats involved.
I'm not just saying that,..I really mean it.
With older cats, ...it usually takes months...not weeks.

I don't want RC to continuously get scared away from all the places he's used to going like water fountain and cat tree. So far it doesn't seem like he is too scared and as usual when I put NC back in her room, he goes to meow outside her door. RC is such a big sweetie and it really hurts to see him treated like this, but I know I shouldn't let my human judgement define their cat interactions. It's just hard since it felt like there was progress recently, with feeding them around 5 ft apart thru a gate and NC hasn't hissed in 5 meals.

You know what I think is probably hardest...is because you are in the middle of the cat intros...then it is so hard to see the progress you've already made.
To you it might seem so small, ..and to other members ..they sometimes felt like they were moving backwards...but from the outside...it really does look like progress.
It's difficult, too, since you are there, hearing the sounds, everyday,...while we online...are not.
That is tough, too.
And having to remain neutral and calm...to give off only good vibes to each cat....Since cats pick up on our emotions like a sponge.

"...and as usual when I put NC back in her room, he goes to meow outside her door".
That kind of tells you that RC is really doing well.
No fear there, and no ill feelings towards NC, either.
Your cats are amazing.
They just might not do things in any particular order, ...or the ways in which you expect them to.

Remember, too, to not be too hard on yourself.
And enjoy all the good moments.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

This one, you're right, is a little confusing.

On the one hand, you have RC who is definitely not scared of NC, after the earlier incidents...since he sees her and decides that he too wants to hang out on the cat tree. That means that he wasn't bothered by those previous incidents...the way us humans might have been.
For cats, it's just another business as usual.
No bad feelings or anything, from previously.

Then he stays lower, ...but what I am not too sure about is 'does he want NC to move'?
Is he trying to get her attention, in a sort of way ?....where you think that NC is causing the first reactions...but really RC is the one who chose to get close to her...and near to her space.

Yes, when the staring and hyper focusing happens...it really is difficult to distract them with toys.
With toys...Even if they are distracted just momentarily...then that is a good thing.
**You could try a large piece of cardboard...put between them...to break their line of sight.
Or even a pillow between them ..also may break their line of sight.

In the future, you'll be able to distract them with your voice, clapping, or a pillow thrown in an opposite direction...but for now...that would only scare them.
And it's kind of good, that you let it play out...to see what would happen.

Because nothing too awful, actually did happen...if it was only hiss, growl and swat...and RC runs away.
Was there a lot of growling and loud vocalizations from NC?
Did she manage to swat RC really hard...to hurt him?
Because NC did not run after RC...it does not sound like she wanted to hurt him...or fight with him.

What confuses me, is,...I'm not sure if she was being territorial over that cat tree...and claiming it as her own
or...was she just trying to get him to move away from her.
That's where it's really difficult to know...how much of a 'space bubble' each cat is willing to allow another strange cat into.
And when they do get to be close friends...some still have 'their personal bubble cat space'...depending on each cat's personality.
They are really amazing small animals.

I think what you are feeling is quite normal.
If you were not feeling these emotions, some stress, worry, anxiety, compassion...then I'd be more concerned...that you'd be a robot or something.

It's so natural that you want your RC to be okay and safe...and at the same time make NC understand that she is also safe and secure.
You want them both to get along, and not have any tension, stress, or fear.
The only thing is ...that with cat intros....having tension, stress and fear ...is so natural for a cat.
(and I guess it's so natural for us humans too...since you care so much for their well being.)

Just remember to keep in your mind,...that the cat intros...do not last forever...and that each day...does get better.
But it never seems to be in a straight line.
It's like a roller coaster, ...with up days...and down days...rough spots...and then smooth spots.

More Routine, Repetition, and working on what another knowledgeable Cat site member named 'Calicosrspecial'...who works with feral cats...calls the "Play, Food, Height, Love"...method. ( I remember it by the acronym...Play For Her Love)
Playing... makes good positive feelings and associations in cats,... Food/treats do too...and is used for added rewards and positive associations...and the Height...is any special spaces for the cats that are either high, low, or safe...with Love ...being obvious from slow blinks, to spending time with our cats, to patting, brushing, or just being near, or allowing them space and freedom to be how they are. (Calicosrspecial explains it way better than me, ...so if you come across any of her posts...they are very informative to read.)

"Meanwhile I'm not sure how to manage NC because even tho it's suppose to be scared, she often goes into his space or goes towards him and then get mad. Play distraction works maybe once and it only lasts momentarily before they're back to being focused on eachother."
Actually, you already are managing NC...since by doing the things you've already described...above...you are lessening her fear responses.

You have a Plan in place, ..you both are doing the Playing,...and the spending the time, plus the food...and each day is a new day...so there will be slight pauses, or days that feel like set backs,..but then progress is made.
You'll look back...and see the progress.

Even now, if you look back....so much progress has been made...that I am truly and pleasantly impressed because your cat intros are going much, much faster than any I have read ...with older cats involved.
I'm not just saying that,..I really mean it.
With older cats, ...it usually takes months...not weeks.

You know what I think is probably hardest...is because you are in the middle of the cat intros...then it is so hard to see the progress you've already made.
To you it might seem so small, ..and to other members ..they sometimes felt like they were moving backwards...but from the outside...it really does look like progress.
It's difficult, too, since you are there, hearing the sounds, everyday,...while we online...are not.
That is tough, too.
And having to remain neutral and calm...to give off only good vibes to each cat....Since cats pick up on our emotions like a sponge.

"...and as usual when I put NC back in her room, he goes to meow outside her door".
That kind of tells you that RC is really doing well.
No fear there, and no ill feelings towards NC, either.
Your cats are amazing.
They just might not do things in any particular order, ...or the ways in which you expect them to.

Remember, too, to not be too hard on yourself.
And enjoy all the good moments.

Thank you so much as always for your very thoughtful and enlightening replies!! And yes, definitely helps to have someone like you here to put things into perspective for me, for my specific intro. I spend most of my free time these days reading threads here about introductions, and everyone is slightly different, it's hard to know how to take those lessons and apply it to my situation sometimes.

For now I will be more careful to not give cat nip during free roam yet. She can do it fine without cat nip after all, and there will be time in the future for her to enjoy all the cat surfaces I've bought for her. No need to rush for her to "claim" a bed

I did read that cats are not "family style" eaters! I guess when I'm doubtful of myself, I just try my best to follow guides to the letter. But It's already great that they can both each without my interruption for 2 days. It used to be my gf and I each with a cat, chatting and petting them while they ate, and they would still stare and hiss. Now I can manage it by myself, and I can get up and walk thru the pet gate, do something else, and just keep eye on them. They don't really look at each other much than the occasional glance, and there has been no hissing. RC just walks off to groom and nap when he's done, and NC cleans her plate and then either does the same or asks for attention. I will keep that distance going for now and maybe even do it with pet gate open.

I have probably been projecting my human ideas onto RC a lot. I see him run off with his tail parallel to the floor, and stand under a table, I immediately think of a pitiful baby. But for him it might just be "oh ok I will leave you alone".

After these incidents, NC doesn't redirect towards me much because I don't start approaching her until I can see she has calmed down. I read that sometimes if you try to approach a tense cat, they will redirect it to you. So after confrontation, I calmly sit for a little to watch how they behave afterwards, and then go check RC to give him a little attention and also checking if he was hurt (he doesn't seem hurt yet). Then I see NC has cooled off or distracted, before I try to approach her. I am still learning what her body language and meows mean, as she communicates much differently to me than RC. Like you said, since they usually just resume what they do, hanging around and knowing the other exists, it doesn't look like some of the posts here where one cat is clearly distressed afterwards.

Small story, but yesterday I did clicker train a little with NC during free roam. RC was curious and came to observe us and they were basically about a foot apart from each other but NC was so focused on the treat tossing and training, she didn't even look at him! My gf eventually distracted RC to play with her a bit further away, so when NC is done with training she wouldn't suddenly get startled by him so close.

For the cat tree incident, I will include a picture at the end (it was taken a bit before she came down and smacked him). I think it's similar to the bath tub incident, where RC still wants to hang out or play. I am waiting on delivery for another cat tree so right now having 1 probably didn't help, as they both seem to enjoy hanging out there. The ledge between them (the tube, 3rd ledge) is actually RC's favorite on that tree. Before he started using his cave bends in recent months, he would almost always be in that tube. Maybe he jumped up there and was gauging if she was ok with him going there (which she obviously didn't like). Maybe she felt trapped being on the very top with RC below, so she felt like she needed to put him in his place? Once again I don't recall any ears back. I did use cardboard on hand to block line of sight during the water fountain incident, but next time I will try it more quickly. Sometimes I just want to stand back and see if they are just kind of measuring each other. I worry I am too smothering/helicopter parent sometimes haha!

I hope I do not sound impatient! I know that cat introductions, especially adult cats, can take a long time. Even then they might only be tolerant of each other. I guess since I'm the worried type, and I want to make sure they are both happy and safe, I tend to feel like things are not doing well if there are any incidents. But that's why I come here and write my novels in this thread! Thankfully I have someone kind and patient here to listen and help me

It's funny, seeing this photo, it looks like they are already good friends! But I know the smack that came after this cute picture!

 

[cat nap]

Oh, I totally forgot...I just saw this thread today...and I know that you already said that you're saving up funds for a cat tree, or maybe you already bought one...can't remember.
Anyhow, I'm not in the States...so have no idea if this is a good price or not.
And I really don't know anything about which ones are good or not.
But anyhow, ...here is the thread: Currently on Sale

 

[Babypinkweeb]

Oh, I totally forgot...I just saw this thread today...and I know that you already said that you're saving up funds for a cat tree, or maybe you already bought one...can't remember.
Anyhow, I'm not in the States...so have no idea if this is a good price or not.
And I really don't know anything about which ones are good or not.
But anyhow, ...here is the thread: Currently on Sale

I bought one already but yes I did see that earlier! Thank you.

Meal time with open gate is working so far!

 

[cat nap]

For the cat tree incident, I will include a picture at the end (it was taken a bit before she came down and smacked him). I think it's similar to the bath tub incident, where RC still wants to hang out or play. I am waiting on delivery for another cat tree so right now having 1 probably didn't help, as they both seem to enjoy hanging out there. The ledge between them (the tube, 3rd ledge) is actually RC's favorite on that tree. Before he started using his cave bends in recent months, he would almost always be in that tube. Maybe he jumped up there and was gauging if she was ok with him going there (which she obviously didn't like). Maybe she felt trapped being on the very top with RC below, so she felt like she needed to put him in his place? Once again I don't recall any ears back. I did use cardboard on hand to block line of sight during the water fountain incident, but next time I will try it more quickly. Sometimes I just want to stand back and see if they are just kind of measuring each other. I worry I am too smothering/helicopter parent sometimes haha!

Okay, that is one huge cat tree.
She had all that space...and she still came down to smack him.
I might have to think about this one overnight...and come up with some better ideas.

Yeah, maybe he did want to get to his favourite spot...but that would have been a little too close to her.
And yeah, she could have felt a bit trapped, being on the very top,...much the same way...if she felt cornered in that drawer.

It's so adorable how he's looking up at her, though.
and she's not even looking at him. ...like he's admiring her from far off.
Then the poor guy gets smacked minutes later. That is so confusing.

It's funny, seeing this photo, it looks like they are already good friends! But I know the smack that came after this cute picture!

We are both kind of terrible for laughing at what happened to poor RC...but I kind of cannot help it...because that photo...does look very cute. It's like no one would expect a smack after that photo.
I wish cats could tell us why, ...just why.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

Okay, that is one huge cat tree.
She had all that space...and she still came down to smack him.
I might have to think about this one overnight...and come up with some better ideas.

Yeah, maybe he did want to get to his favourite spot...but that would have been a little too close to her.
And yeah, she could have felt a bit trapped, being on the very top,...much the same way...if she felt cornered in that drawer.

It's so adorable how he's looking up at her, though.
and she's not even looking at him. ...like he's admiring her from far off.
Then the poor guy gets smacked minutes later. That is so confusing.

We are both kind of terrible for laughing at what happened to poor RC...but I kind of cannot help it...because that photo...does look very cute. It's like no one would expect a smack after that photo.
I wish cats could tell us why, ...just why.

I wish I spoke cat!

I think at this point they are fine and familiar with each others smell, but something about SEEING RC close makes her nervous. If she doesn't see him, she has no issue with his beds, litter box, even walking by close to him, but the second she see that he is there, she hisses. I watched her tonight before separating for bed time that she does turn her ears a little to each side when she hisses. Not a full ear back, just like a rotation for a second. Kind of like airplane ears.

I got a little redirected aggression this time! It wasn't bad though. After dinner NC was energetic and wanted to play so my gf played with her in the living room. RC maybe felt like he didn't wanna get yelled at so he went to the bedroom to relax in his bed. I felt bad so I sat near him and gently chatted. When she was done with play, she heard me and wanted to come over, and I know she was going to be hissing because his bed was behind a dresser and she will not see him until she's too close. I didn't grab her but I had my hand on the floor in a fist and gently told her to slow down. Right then she did turn and saw him in his bed and then hissed and swatted my hand. HOWEVER her swat did not have claws? I'm not sure if it was lucky but it was a soft paw swat. After this she walked out of the room.

Later I was trying to train her for the command "down" by the kitchen, and while she was sitting on bar stool with me she hissed slightly at RC as he walked by under the chairs to get past us (it's the only way to leave the bedroom). Last incident was when NC looked like she was going to her room but RC was just leaving her room. I didn't want a bad confrontation so I distracted NC with a treat while my GF tried to get RC to leave that narrow walkway. They did lock eyes and RC didn't help us by trying to run back into her room, but I put a box between their eyes and distracted her.

My gf told me while she was playing with NC, she climbed the cat tree all the way to the top, and maybe she was getting too aggressive from the intense play, when she dangle the feather toy Infront of NC she growled at her. Gf wasn't scared but she is just learning about how NC plays. After that she left NC be as she seem like she was done with play.

 

[cat nap]

After these incidents, NC doesn't redirect towards me much because I don't start approaching her until I can see she has calmed down. I read that sometimes if you try to approach a tense cat, they will redirect it to you. So after confrontation, I calmly sit for a little to watch how they behave afterwards, and then go check RC to give him a little attention and also checking if he was hurt (he doesn't seem hurt yet). Then I see NC has cooled off or distracted, before I try to approach her. I am still learning what her body language and meows mean, as she communicates much differently to me than RC. Like you said, since they usually just resume what they do, hanging around and knowing the other exists, it doesn't look like some of the posts here where one cat is clearly distressed afterwards.

That's so cool, the way you calmly sit and watch how they behave after a confrontation.
You really do observe well, and notice a lot.

I find it so unique, that usually it's the resident cat that has most of the issues with the new cat...not always...but there are a lot of threads about it, because anything new...and changes in the Routine of the resident cat...causes a lot of distress

But with your cats, it's more the new cat has to adjust more...and takes more time to do it.
Maybe because she too finds changes a bit too scary.
Plus, she does kind of have to adjust more, since new place, new people...then you have the resident cat...that she yet does not trust fully.

From everything that I have read, your cats moved from the initial intro stages...to now being in the 'let's get to know each other's play styles' ..and 'how do we further' trust each other stage.

Small story, but yesterday I did clicker train a little with NC during free roam. RC was curious and came to observe us and they were basically about a foot apart from each other but NC was so focused on the treat tossing and training, she didn't even look at him! My gf eventually distracted RC to play with her a bit further away, so when NC is done with training she wouldn't suddenly get startled by him so close.

A foot apart. wow.
And wow again...for the extreme focus that NC can do when clicker training.
She sounds like she really goes all out when she's actually doing something...or is it only because of the treats.
Good thinking about getting your gf to distract RC further away...because yes, that would have been another hiss, growl and smack incident, probably. In time, though, I think they will probably bump into each other...and still she might hiss...but won't smack.

I hope I do not sound impatient! I know that cat introductions, especially adult cats, can take a long time. Even then they might only be tolerant of each other. I guess since I'm the worried type, and I want to make sure they are both happy and safe, I tend to feel like things are not doing well if there are any incidents. But that's why I come here and write my novels in this thread! Thankfully I have someone kind and patient here to listen and help me

Nah, at first I thought you were rushing things a bit.
But then when you posted the first video, and the other videos...I kind of saw what you were saying....and how ready NC was to move on to the other stages already.
It actually would have been totally wrong, to hold her back, and not move forward. That would have been a major mistake.
That's why it's kind of hard to make some comments sometimes without seeing video...since we all have a different picture in our own heads...but seeing it on video...makes it so much more clearer.

I like your novels. no worries.
you kind of have to read mine, then, too.
Thanks for the compliments. You're the one whose too kind.
I think I might get a huge ego now. haha.

I have probably been projecting my human ideas onto RC a lot. I see him run off with his tail parallel to the floor, and stand under a table, I immediately think of a pitiful baby. But for him it might just be "oh ok I will leave you alone".

I honestly think that a lot of us cat guardians do that.
When you think about it, it's kind of automatic and so natural to do that.
We basically all want our cats to be comfortable, happy and secure...since they give us so much love in return.
Just seeing our cats puts a smile on our faces, no matter what type of day we've had. And the way they can relax us, is beyond words.

But yeah, you're probably right...RC was probably not too worried about the whole thing.
To him, it was basic and direct..."oh ok I will leave you alone".

 

[cat nap]

I wish I spoke cat!

I think at this point they are fine and familiar with each others smell, but something about SEEING RC close makes her nervous. If she doesn't see him, she has no issue with his beds, litter box, even walking by close to him, but the second she see that he is there, she hisses. I watched her tonight before separating for bed time that she does turn her ears a little to each side when she hisses. Not a full ear back, just like a rotation for a second. Kind of like airplane ears.

I wish I spoke cat, too.

I think she is just trying to have some 'control'...over the situation.
Since you are already noticing that she is Nervous, but only when seeing RC very close...or when RC is walking...then it might mean ...that she is still unsure what RC will do...and does indeed React first...so as to express some control over the situation.

Think of it like, when her fear and anxiety are up...and it makes her feel uncomfortable...then she definitely has to do something ...to release that adrenaline rush.
Either hiss, growl, or swat too,...all warning and self defense mechanisms...to protect yourself when in the wild.
In more time...she will feel more comfortable...because RC's movements ...will become very familiar to her.

Another member here, di and bob, also mentions how 'female cats are the manners teachers',...so could it be that NC is just trying to establish her own set of 'rules'...and wants to make it clear to RC that he should do what she says.

(my female cat has always been more chatty yet more about 'doing things' and kind of seems to always want to do things in a proper order. I guess I'm giving my cat's some human like qualities to, but I see nothing wrong with that. It's just very hard to explain, sometimes, what we see our cats do...and how each of their personalities are so different.)

I got a little redirected aggression this time! It wasn't bad though. After dinner NC was energetic and wanted to play so my gf played with her in the living room. RC maybe felt like he didn't wanna get yelled at so he went to the bedroom to relax in his bed. I felt bad so I sat near him and gently chatted. When she was done with play, she heard me and wanted to come over, and I know she was going to be hissing because his bed was behind a dresser and she will not see him until she's too close. I didn't grab her but I had my hand on the floor in a fist and gently told her to slow down. Right then she did turn and saw him in his bed and then hissed and swatted my hand. HOWEVER her swat did not have claws? I'm not sure if it was lucky but it was a soft paw swat. After this she walked out of the room.

Interesting. Excellent that she kept her claws retracted...
If she ever does swat and scratch you ...then wimper like a puppy, act like you are hurt, and exaggerate it...they tend to not try and repeat a scratch again.

I'm not sure why she would swat at you.
Yes, could be a bit of redirected aggression...but could also be...that she did want to stay with you...and then saw him...and got slightly jealous.
It's got to be tough, when you are the new cat, and so want to be accepted and fit in, but still are nervous and reactive.

Super vigilant, too.
Not sure who she can Trust, just yet.
You're building up her Confidence and Trust.
(Calicosrspecial mentioned that "a confident cat is a relaxed cat"...I think that is very true.)

I wonder with new cats...how they feel about claiming their new territory...but also "claiming their new people", too.

(my male knows how retract but when he forgets then I sometimes gently have to tap his paw. My female doesn't always retract...and prefers to use her claws to gently grab my hand. Same thing when they are both giving me pawsages and kneading. Sometimes it does hurt a bit. And of course when I'm playing rougher with my male, I do sometimes get accidentally scratched. My fault, totally.)

Later I was trying to train her for the command "down" by the kitchen, and while she was sitting on bar stool with me she hissed slightly at RC as he walked by under the chairs to get past us (it's the only way to leave the bedroom). Last incident was when NC looked like she was going to her room but RC was just leaving her room. I didn't want a bad confrontation so I distracted NC with a treat while my GF tried to get RC to leave that narrow walkway. They did lock eyes and RC didn't help us by trying to run back into her room, but I put a box between their eyes and distracted her.

That was quick thinking.

My gf told me while she was playing with NC, she climbed the cat tree all the way to the top, and maybe she was getting too aggressive from the intense play, when she dangle the feather toy Infront of NC she growled at her. Gf wasn't scared but she is just learning about how NC plays. After that she left NC be as she seem like she was done with play.

Can you ask your gf if she notices any differences ...between the cat toys...that she uses?. Does NC get too intense with all of them, or only some of them.?

Also, was NC's growl more of a 'possessive type'...like she wanted to keep her 'trophy' away from her, excitement like she wanted to 'kill the feather',...or was it a 'growl of annoyance'...like she was tired...and didn't want to play anymore.
Either way your gf did well in ending the play session.
So great that your gf is not scared and learning about all the little curious ways that NC plays, too.

Not now, but in the future, when you have even more funds...and get too tired from all the playing...then you might have to buy some more good interactive cat toys.or automated ones.
I don't know which ones are really good, and need to buy some more, myself, too.

Hope you are doing some relaxing too, along with the cat intros.
You have to take time for yourself, to recharge, and enjoy the days.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

I wish I spoke cat, too.

I think she is just trying to have some 'control'...over the situation.
Since you are already noticing that she is Nervous, but only when seeing RC very close...or when RC is walking...then it might mean ...that she is still unsure what RC will do...and does indeed React first...so as to express some control over the situation.

Think of it like, when her fear and anxiety are up...and it makes her feel uncomfortable...then she definitely has to do something ...to release that adrenaline rush.
Either hiss, growl, or swat too,...all warning and self defense mechanisms...to protect yourself when in the wild.
In more time...she will feel more comfortable...because RC's movements ...will become very familiar to her.

Another member here, di and bob, also mentions how 'female cats are the manners teachers',...so could it be that NC is just trying to establish her own set of 'rules'...and wants to make it clear to RC that he should do what she says.

(my female cat has always been more chatty yet more about 'doing things' and kind of seems to always want to do things in a proper order. I guess I'm giving my cat's some human like qualities to, but I see nothing wrong with that. It's just very hard to explain, sometimes, what we see our cats do...and how each of their personalities are so different.)

Interesting. Excellent that she kept her claws retracted...
If she ever does swat and scratch you ...then wimper like a puppy, act like you are hurt, and exaggerate it...they tend to not try and repeat a scratch again.

I'm not sure why she would swat at you.
Yes, could be a bit of redirected aggression...but could also be...that she did want to stay with you...and then saw him...and got slightly jealous.
It's got to be tough, when you are the new cat, and so want to be accepted and fit in, but still are nervous and reactive.

Super vigilant, too.
Not sure who she can Trust, just yet.
You're building up her Confidence and Trust.
(Calicosrspecial mentioned that "a confident cat is a relaxed cat"...I think that is very true.)

I wonder with new cats...how they feel about claiming their new territory...but also "claiming their new people", too.

(my male knows how retract but when he forgets then I sometimes gently have to tap his paw. My female doesn't always retract...and prefers to use her claws to gently grab my hand. Same thing when they are both giving me pawsages and kneading. Sometimes it does hurt a bit. And of course when I'm playing rougher with my male, I do sometimes get accidentally scratched. My fault, totally.)

That was quick thinking.

Can you ask your gf if she notices any differences ...between the cat toys...that she uses?. Does NC get too intense with all of them, or only some of them.?

Also, was NC's growl more of a 'possessive type'...like she wanted to keep her 'trophy' away from her, excitement like she wanted to 'kill the feather',...or was it a 'growl of annoyance'...like she was tired...and didn't want to play anymore.
Either way your gf did well in ending the play session.
So great that your gf is not scared and learning about all the little curious ways that NC plays, too.

Not now, but in the future, when you have even more funds...and get too tired from all the playing...then you might have to buy some more good interactive cat toys.or automated ones.
I don't know which ones are really good, and need to buy some more, myself, too.

Hope you are doing some relaxing too, along with the cat intros.
You have to take time for yourself, to recharge, and enjoy the days.

EDIT: they just had their first confrontation incident today. NC was trying to get on the counter while I was making food so I kept putting her down until she understood a bit and sat on the floor watching me cook. After a while RC wanted to come in but if he did she would have been cornered in my kitchen dead end. So I lured RC to sit on the bar stools which he likes to do. After I was almost done with cooking, NC started leaving the kitchen and she walked by under RC cautiously but did not look at him or growl... I thought it was going to be good until RC instead wanted to jump off and follow her. It happened very very fast so I'm not sure if he wanted to just sniff her butt or what. (Before this he sometimes knows to keep his distance but sometimes he want to get close). RC didn't act like he was hunting like when we play feather toy with him, he just was staring at her walking by and then jumped off to follow. NC heard him, turn around and made angry meow and hissing and swatted him a bit and they broke off. NC went to crouch under the coffee table but did not hiss or growl, and ears forward. RC, non directly, walking around the area but looked like he wanted to go after her again. RC did not have ears back or hunch over, just normal walking. But I stopped him again and again with a box Infront so he stops looking. Right after they walked away from the confrontation, I noticed RC had his mouth kind of open like flehmen response. Not sure what that menas. All this time NC is still under the table but not hissing or growling.

Eventually after a minute or so I lured RC back to the bar stool where he is now settled, eyes closed and curled up. NC amazed me because after I lured RC away, I had to check my food still on the stove, and when I turned around she was already out from the coffee table and sitting and watching me in the kitchen. I'm still managing them right now as NC decided to, for some reason, slowly and carefully walk back to the kitchen, passing under RC in the bar stool??! Other than making sure they don't fight, I also want to be careful as we have electric stove and I don't want her to burn herself stepping on it.

----------------

Please take time for yourself as well! I hope helping me isn't taking up too much of your day.

I asked GF about it and she said she believes the growl was her being like "I'm done playing so stop annoying me in my face" she really likes this feathers and bell on a stick toy so we have been playing with her everyday and it really helps her mood I think.

She still sees RC because his bed and hang out is near the window in the living room and that whole area is where we all hang. But so far today she seems more calm. We had free roam time in the morning with little issue and in afternoon I let her out again after a meal. She gets excited after eating so we played with her until she was really to chill on our laps. We also had the window open which I think is good because she is really into looking outside but RC's favorite bed is near there. So now she goes toward the window and sees him, but is still tempted by the window. She hasn't hissed as much today but did more growls. However her growls are all quite short like " hey screw you"

We had almost a heart stopping incident (in a good way). She was chilling, lying completely down on her side with her head dangling, on my lap... RC got out of his cave and started walking around and sniffing without too much purpose.... He then walked right by my leg, practically right under NC and all she did was give a 2 second quiet growl and didn't even move!!! She is still aware of him and once in a while by the window she sees him in his cave and growls a little but immediately goes back to observing the outside.... I think that's the closest they've been together without any food distractions! And so far today there has been no swatting, but fingers crossed for the next few hours until bed time. I do wonder why she's mostly switched over to growling instead of hissing though.

Last night I made sure to give them both some one on one petting and brushing time. I think maybe because I haven't had private bonding time with them as much the last few days they might feel a bit on edge. RC who is normally not a very affection boy, sat at my bed end before I could sleep. I ended up giving him lots of pets where he purred which is rare for him!! So it's been a good day for far

Here's her showing how much she appreciates all the play time. She was basically lying down like this when RC had that close walk by.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

They are so confusing.... They had another confrontation and other stare downs but they keep trying to go to each others space, and when they walk away from eachother, they are chill. NC even sat on the couch and made biscuits and napped a little after one confrontation.... They act like they're tense and then chill, and then go into each others space.... Both NC and RC are on and off going to space where they know the other is hanging. I'm just trying to be more hands off and watch it happen today.

 

[cat nap]

Yes, that is exactly what I would be doing, too.
Just let them hang out...and watch it happen.
If it gets extremely vocal...with yowling and extreme growling or fighting...then you can give them both a time out...or decide to end the sessions for the evening...if they cannot relax on their own.

But for now, they are both doing well.
What matters most...is the way they act after each confrontation.
And so far...they are doing really good.
They interact, they walk away...then they come back together.

 

[cat nap]

EDIT: they just had their first confrontation incident today. NC was trying to get on the counter while I was making food so I kept putting her down until she understood a bit and sat on the floor watching me cook. After a while RC wanted to come in but if he did she would have been cornered in my kitchen dead end. So I lured RC to sit on the bar stools which he likes to do. After I was almost done with cooking, NC started leaving the kitchen and she walked by under RC cautiously but did not look at him or growl... I thought it was going to be good until RC instead wanted to jump off and follow her. It happened very very fast so I'm not sure if he wanted to just sniff her butt or what. (Before this he sometimes knows to keep his distance but sometimes he want to get close). RC didn't act like he was hunting like when we play feather toy with him, he just was staring at her walking by and then jumped off to follow. NC heard him, turn around and made angry meow and hissing and swatted him a bit and they broke off.

When I read...."their first confrontation incident"..I thought "oh,oh, this might not be good..."
But the fact that they had the confrontation...and then ...broke off on their own...is excellent.

Only thing now, is trying to figure out why...all of a sudden is RC following or wanting to follow NC around?
I guess he just figures ...it's time for him...to express himself, as well.

NC went to crouch under the coffee table but did not hiss or growl, and ears forward. RC, non directly, walking around the area but looked like he wanted to go after her again. RC did not have ears back or hunch over, just normal walking. But I stopped him again and again with a box Infront so he stops looking. Right after they walked away from the confrontation, I noticed RC had his mouth kind of open like flehmen response. Not sure what that menas. All this time NC is still under the table but not hissing or growling.

Fantastic on the...putting the box in front of him...so he stops looking.

The flehmen response is either, like you already know...that he is taking in all of her Scent and pheromones...in the air around him.
Giving him the most information about what type of Scents she is giving off.
(Either that...or your cooking is amazing...and smells great, too. haha.)

Along with the flehmen...see if either RC or NC...does this thing...where they 'smack their lips together'...it sort of looks like when a person puts their lips together and swallows.
Usually this indicates that the cat is a bit on hyper vigilance...or rather just came right off it...but nothing to worry about...it's just a cool thing to notice. I think it has to do with their fight or flight response...and how it ends...and then the cat afterwards is able to relax.
(It kind of reminds me like when a person's mouth goes dry...and then we lick our lips and swallow too.) Except cats don't lick their lips but rather just smack them.

Eventually after a minute or so I lured RC back to the bar stool where he is now settled, eyes closed and curled up. NC amazed me because after I lured RC away, I had to check my food still on the stove, and when I turned around she was already out from the coffee table and sitting and watching me in the kitchen. I'm still managing them right now as NC decided to, for some reason, slowly and carefully walk back to the kitchen, passing under RC in the bar stool??! Other than making sure they don't fight, I also want to be careful as we have electric stove and I don't want her to burn herself stepping on it.

Oh, so right about the stove. I cannot think of anything good enough...to keep her away from it.
(I always worry about my animals too when I have something in the oven.
Mine are not allowed on counters...or really hang out in the kitchen...unless they are asking for food or treats...so I don't have any good advice.)

If she continually jumps up...then she has to be banned from the kitchen.
I'm hoping your clicker training can teach her...to stay down...or like some people said...they used some sort of 'motion activated air hiss' bottle ...to keep their cats off the counter.
Maybe you can use foil paper...or double sided sticky tape.
If you have any orange or lemon peels...cats are supposed to hate the smell of citrus...maybe that could be put on the counters...and deter her from it.

 

[cat nap]

Hi Babypinkweeb ...could I ask how it went yesterday?
I'm just dying to know.
You could just post an emoji...and not have to write...since I know you've been busy.
Just tell me ....or this.......or this...
Whenever you have the time.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

Hi Babypinkweeb ...could I ask how it went yesterday?
I'm just dying to know.
You could just post an emoji...and not have to write...since I know you've been busy.
Just tell me ....or this.......or this...
Whenever you have the time.

Yes of course! I was doing errands today so I thought I'd wait until dinner for them before I gave an update

She's starting to learn about kitchen counter. Even tho she still goes up, it's less than before and she is learning to sit outside the kitchen area or sitting on the floor instead. We are either picking her up and setting her down, or sprinkle her with water with our hands.

I've found that I need to put her away in order to prepare food, as she gets WAY too eager. She still hiss or growl at RC but it's getting a bit less! There was a few times they walked by eachother without even looking at eachother. There was one swats that I was aware of. RC was sitting at the window and NC heard a noise and wanted to check it out too, but she doesn't want him there, so NC swatted and hissed at him to make him move so she can look she did hiss or growl at him randomly but sometimes distance wasn't a factor. Sometimes RC is across the living room and she would growl even though she's chilling in my lap, other times she would walk by within a foot of RC and not even look at him.

The only other memorable incident, was she wanted to go on the cat tree but RC was sleeping in his carrier by the base of it. She approached him, to hiss, maybe to say "stay where you are and don't do anything funny!" Before jumping up the cat tree.

In good news they gave quite a few "close call" where they were close for whatever reason but did not acknowledge eachother. Im not sure if she just didn't notice or she is learning to tolerate him. Sometimes I'd think she was tense after a wall by, but then I find her loafing with her eyes close sometimes (feet under body loafing). 1 close encounter was NC napping on my lap on the sofa, and my gf had a pillow on her lap. RC isn't a lap cat but sometimes he likes to come lounge on a lap pillow... This time he came over thinking he could go up.. he takes a long time to decide so we were both kind of panicking worried about a cat fight right in our face. Last minute my gf lifted the pillow to show NC was in our lap, and RC saw her and we saw it click for him. RC ended up walking away probably not wanting to risk a confrontation. This entire time NC did not even move from her nap.

Another close call was when I was making a snack for myself. RC was sitting on a barstool watching me, and NC eventually came over to check it out too. She doesn't seem to like going on the bar stool... She saw RC, was silent for a while, let out 1 hiss, and then the rest of the time was watching me. Eventually RC left and walked past her with no confrontation. We hope this continues tomorrow.

This is random but when would you consider it's ok to leave them both free over night? On my security cam for NC's room, at night she just sleeps the whole time on her scratching board. RC usually sleeps on the table next to our bed.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

Forgot to add, RC has made himself home ever since first free roam day, to use her items LOL he likes to drink her water, use her litter box, and as I type this he is sleeping in her bed in her room. Meanwhile NC is totally enjoying all the space outside her room, and currently napping on the sofa. NC has not used the RC's main litter box yet but she was exploring it today. It's in a litter box enclosure furniture (I know those aren't great but I have limited storage in my apt). I'm hoping she will try to use it in the next few days.

 

[cat nap]

Thanks so much for the detailed reply.
I was just curious about all those interactions going on last night.
After reading your post. It sounds like it went really well.

(I'm on Eastern Standard Time...so I won't be able to write out a proper reply until tomorrow. It's 1:30am...and for some strange reason...the last couple of days I had insomnia...and a weird sleep schedule...but it was so much fun...getting to be online when you mostly were...so it felt like live action updates. Sadly, I'm just going back to the usual schedule, but will definitely write up a better reply, tomorrow.)
I don't know how you manage to do those over night working shifts. Especially if you have to work past 3am. I used to be able to stay up till 2am no problem...but now I seem to not be able to stay up after 10pm.

This is random but when would you consider it's ok to leave them both free over night? On my security cam for NC's room, at night she just sleeps the whole time on her scratching board. RC usually sleeps on the table next to our bed.

Can you leave NC out to roam about...but close the door to your bedroom...so she would not bother RC.
I think they would be okay to both be free over night...when you see them relax a bit more around each other.
The way your cats are doing their intros...that probably means tomorrow or the next night. haha.

Tell me how they do tomorrow, or if you can capture...just a short moment on video...of how they move around the room, or wherever they happen to be...even if one is sleeping...then that would be helpful. Hearing the growl would also be helpful.

I swear your cats are blowing my mind away...but in a good and pleasant way.
It's like they are telling us, "Intro guides, what intro guides...just shred all those guides. The guides say 'go at the pace of the slowest adjusting cat.' Well, in your case...there is no slow cat. They are basically telling us, "humans, just try to keep up the pace with us"...don't worry about all that stuff you read before.
It's so interesting because I don't ever remember reading a thread like this. It's freaking awesome.

You actually might be able to get them to relax more...if you have extra room on your sofa...and can place them on the opposite side of you and your gf. So that you both are sitting in between, but have RC laying beside your gf.
You're using yourself, or your gf, as the buffer zone.
You can still have a pillow in the middle to block their line of sight...and then move it slightly away....to see how comfortable they are.

Or you can switch the cats to either side, so they get equal time with each person.
If you think that this may be too close, for now,...then just try to have each person sit with each cat...even a distance away...say on the floor...and see how they tolerate this. It's okay if they look at each other...just watch how tense they each get...and if they can calm down quickly.

But your gf did amazingly...in lifting that pillow ...in the 'almost lap pillow incident'...where RC then saw that NC was on your lap.
It's always better that both cats are aware of each other...and then choose to come to their humans.
Plus, it's better for the cats to also know where the other one is for now.
I guess it's good to push NC boundaries a little...so she see that nothing bad will happen.

If you do try any of the above...make sure you do it ...after a good Play session...where each cat is tired.
And then feed some treats, too.

They may be even more likely to ignore each other...which is a good thing.
Eventually, they will decide when...and how close...they can tolerate being next to each other.
Four feet, six feet, more...it's all good....since the main thing....is they can actually be in the same room with each other.
That is wonderful.

Forgot to add, RC has made himself home ever since first free roam day, to use her items LOL he likes to drink her water, use her litter box, and as I type this he is sleeping in her bed in her room. Meanwhile NC is totally enjoying all the space outside her room, and currently napping on the sofa. NC has not used the RC's main litter box yet but she was exploring it today. It's in a litter box enclosure furniture (I know those aren't great but I have limited storage in my apt). I'm hoping she will try to use it in the next few days.

Babypinkweeb ...your cats are a riot.
They must be so entertaining to watch.
RC is sleeping on her bed, in her room.
I'm thinking basically, ...RC is answering the random question you posted above. haha.

Kind of sounds like ..if they are already sharing each other's things...and space...then they don't feel like any separation is needed.
I don't know. I still think it would be good to try some of the things I mentioned above.
But basically, use your cats as your guide...and again you both are doing a fantastic job.

Oh, actually I did see your other thread, today, and saw that you got some great advice.
I wanted to mention the various 'litterbox enclosure furniture' they show online...which you can buy...or if either of you are into diy...you can also build yourself. So it's hilarious that you already have one. Great minds think alike.
I actually think they are great...because they hide the litterboxes out of the way...and as long as they have good access...some even have dual access to go in and out...then they would look great in any space...big or small.

Those photos look so relaxing. Thank you so much for posting them.
Those ear furnishings, and whiskers...on both cats. Beautiful. And RC has such long whiskers, too.
The way NC is sleeping on her paws looks so comfortable, like her paws are her own little white pillow.

So NC has the brown nose...while RC has the white nose?
I wanted to ask ...if there was a big size difference between RC and NC...since I really cannot tell from the photos...even the one where they are eating...I can't tell because one looks like they are standing (NC)...and I'm not sure if RC was half sitting.
Hope your night goes well.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

Thanks so much for the detailed reply.
I was just curious about all those interactions going on last night.
After reading your post. It sounds like it went really well.

(I'm on Eastern Standard Time...so I won't be able to write out a proper reply until tomorrow. It's 1:30am...and for some strange reason...the last couple of days I had insomnia...and a weird sleep schedule...but it was so much fun...getting to be online when you mostly were...so it felt like live action updates. Sadly, I'm just going back to the usual schedule, but will definitely write up a better reply, tomorrow.)
I don't know how you manage to do those over night working shifts. Especially if you have to work past 3am. I used to be able to stay up till 2am no problem...but now I seem to not be able to stay up after 10pm.

Can you leave NC out to roam about...but close the door to your bedroom...so she would not bother RC.
I think they would be okay to both be free over night...when you see them relax a bit more around each other.
The way your cats are doing their intros...that probably means tomorrow or the next night. haha.

Tell me how they do tomorrow, or if you can capture...just a short moment on video...of how they move around the room, or wherever they happen to be...even if one is sleeping...then that would be helpful. Hearing the growl would also be helpful.

I swear your cats are blowing my mind away...but in a good and pleasant way.
It's like they are telling us, "Intro guides, what intro guides...just shred all those guides. The guides say 'go at the pace of the slowest adjusting cat.' Well, in your case...there is no slow cat. They are basically telling us, "humans, just try to keep up the pace with us"...don't worry about all that stuff you read before.
It's so interesting because I don't ever remember reading a thread like this. It's freaking awesome.

You actually might be able to get them to relax more...if you have extra room on your sofa...and can place them on the opposite side of you and your gf. So that you both are sitting in between, but have RC laying beside your gf.
You're using yourself, or your gf, as the buffer zone.
You can still have a pillow in the middle to block their line of sight...and then move it slightly away....to see how comfortable they are.

Or you can switch the cats to either side, so they get equal time with each person.
If you think that this may be too close, for now,...then just try to have each person sit with each cat...even a distance away...say on the floor...and see how they tolerate this. It's okay if they look at each other...just watch how tense they each get...and if they can calm down quickly.

But your gf did amazingly...in lifting that pillow ...in the 'almost lap pillow incident'...where RC then saw that NC was on your lap.
It's always better that both cats are aware of each other...and then choose to come to their humans.
Plus, it's better for the cats to also know where the other one is for now.
I guess it's good to push NC boundaries a little...so she see that nothing bad will happen.

If you do try any of the above...make sure you do it ...after a good Play session...where each cat is tired.
And then feed some treats, too.

They may be even more likely to ignore each other...which is a good thing.
Eventually, they will decide when...and how close...they can tolerate being next to each other.
Four feet, six feet, more...it's all good....since the main thing....is they can actually be in the same room with each other.
That is wonderful.

Babypinkweeb ...your cats are a riot.
They must be so entertaining to watch.
RC is sleeping on her bed, in her room.
I'm thinking basically, ...RC is answering the random question you posted above. haha.

Kind of sounds like ..if they are already sharing each other's things...and space...then they don't feel like any separation is needed.
I don't know. I still think it would be good to try some of the things I mentioned above.
But basically, use your cats as your guide...and again you both are doing a fantastic job.

Oh, actually I did see your other thread, today, and saw that you got some great advice.
I wanted to mention the various 'litterbox enclosure furniture' they show online...which you can buy...or if either of you are into diy...you can also build yourself. So it's hilarious that you already have one. Great minds think alike.
I actually think they are great...because they hide the litterboxes out of the way...and as long as they have good access...some even have dual access to go in and out...then they would look great in any space...big or small.

Those photos look so relaxing. Thank you so much for posting them.
Those ear furnishings, and whiskers...on both cats. Beautiful. And RC has such long whiskers, too.
The way NC is sleeping on her paws looks so comfortable, like her paws are her own little white pillow.

So NC has the brown nose...while RC has the white nose?
I wanted to ask ...if there was a big size difference between RC and NC...since I really cannot tell from the photos...even the one where they are eating...I can't tell because one looks like they are standing (NC)...and I'm not sure if RC was half sitting.
Hope your night goes well.

I will look forward to your response! I'm trying to flip my sleep back now that the cats are more chill and we can have them free roam basically when we are home all day. I'm in central time I hope your insomnia is gone! I have to take melatonin sometimes to help my insomnia.

I will try the sofa suggestion but I have a love seat only, and cookie likes to sleep on one of us, while kind of touching the other person. RC usually perch on the back of the sofa but lately when he sees NC is anywhere on the sofa he knows to not go there. I hope when she is less scared and hissing they will be able to share a close space togther.

Here's a picture of them together (they walked away from this moment with no hissing or growling) he is 13-14lbs at his last vet visit and she is about 6lbs and underweight so hopefully she starts gaining and get healthier.

 

[Babypinkweeb]

Not sure if anyone will read this but when food is involved, they can be as close as possible and neither one cares much. However during play, if they come close face to face (both going after the feather toy, NC still will hiss but not always swat).

She has become more used to him this week, not hissing much at all (maybe 3 hisses a day with free roam) and some days don't even swat at him.

 

[cat nap]

I love the above video.
I was following your other thread in behaviour. You got some great advice there.
Will you be 're-starting the cat intros...from the beginning' again? With all the steps involved?
Or are you doing a different type of cat intro?

Can you post the videos from March 7, and March 9th....in this thread, too?