Introducing Cats - Logistics Questions.

[cat nap]

..but Hooper is so scared of other people that he hides the entire time so that won't help.

The above part, made me think.
I remember you mentioning that Hooper was scared of people at first...but I thought it had to do with 'all the things in the house...being new to him." And naturally some cats will run and hide whenever new people come into their territory. Such as that repair person.

But now I am thinking that if Hooper has a stronger 'flight response'...versus ...a 'fight response'...then you could possibly use this to your advantage.
I sometimes think that having one cat dominant...and one submissive....tends to work out better, as opposed to both wanting to be dominant, and choosing to 'fight'. (Though I wouldn't want the submissive one to get bullied on, either.)

In this way, I tend to see Hooper as desperately wanting to play with Twyla, and not actually wanting to hurt her.
Though I do understand, that Twyla is a senior cat, and cannot keep up, or even want to play, at the same level as Hooper.
Not to mention, that Hooper's energy level, would just annoy Twyla.

Except that Twyla does go after Hooper, which makes me think ....that she does want to 'smack, swat, rough him up a little'.
Perhaps when she fell over, it was her going to 'ground' ...and thereby wanting to use her 'back legs' to kick him off. More in a play tussle, than an actual rough fight. It is really difficult to distinguish between the two, since cats move so lightning fast, and end up separating just as fast...if no humans intervene.

It's so hard though, from where we are sitting, to judge that.
Anyhow, my point was only ...that if Hooper still 'runs away'...'flight'...then he may...still respond well to Twyla's cues.

It was mostly Hooper going after Twyla, but she went after him a little too. It was about ten minutes tops.

Has Twyla's growling lessened, at this point in time, as opposed to how she was in those first few videos?
If they have, then I would see that as progress.

 

[Twylasmom]

Twyla's growling has abated quite a bit, but still lots of hissing! There is definitely a back and forth between who is going after who - Hooper is more likely to stalk, pounce and chase Twyla, but she will go after him, too. For example, if he runs under the bed she will stick her front half under there and hiss and swat to flush him out. I agree that he just desperately wants to play with her and that in combination with his kitten energy just really irritates her.

Today was a no contact day, fairly long day at work and their active times when I have been home didn't really sync up very well (it's a cold rainy day and Twyla has only been interested in eating and sleeping and Hooper has even been pretty well behaved). I am not quite at the point where I feel comfortable with him discovering her sleeping and waking her up. So I am taking the opportunity to reset my mental and emotional outlook as we move forward.

 

[cat nap]

For example, if he runs under the bed she will stick her front half under there and hiss and swat to flush him out.

lol. I kind of think the above sounds cute.
(I hope you are taking photos....although...I really don't know how you could, ...if you have to referee at the same time,....not to mention drink wine....with the other hand. (sorry about that last part. It was just your post from yesterday, has me thinking that we will all be drinking wine together, when these intros are done.)

Today was a no contact day, fairly long day at work and their active times when I have been home didn't really sync up very well (it's a cold rainy day and Twyla has only been interested in eating and sleeping and Hooper has even been pretty well behaved). I am not quite at the point where I feel comfortable with him discovering her sleeping and waking her up. So I am taking the opportunity to reset my mental and emotional outlook as we move forward.

That last part sounds like a great idea.
Always good to take a break, ...especially on the rainy days...but any day is good for it, too.

 

[Twylasmom]

They have done better so far today. I had the gates up, Twyla was sleeping in my room and Hooper roamed for about 4 hours. I then heard lots of chirps and meows from Hooper at the gate, she was up and ready to go! Peaceful treat eating and paw taps at the gate. I then stowed Hooper in the powder room while I took the gates down so he wouldn't charge Twyla. Once both were out there were several loud wrestling moments, but each ended fairly quickly (some with intervention and some without). They peaceably ate some wet food about 3 feet apart and Twyla didn't growl or hiss when Hooper sniffed her bowl. The doorbell rang, scaring Hooper and temporarily stopping the craziness,so I briefly shut him in the bedroom while I retrieved a package. It was their new ripple rug! Twyla was fascinated immediately and planted herself on it. I let Hooper out and he tried to investigate but was really respectful of her space. Twice he passed by her really closely and I watched her take her paw and just gently tap him as he ran by! She stayed on the rug, washed her face a bit, and calmly watched as he ran in and out of her room, laid on the stairs, etc. Eventually she went into the bedroom and he came out a moment later. I shut the door for her and she was totally passed out in a sunbeam when I checked a couple of minutes later.

Hooper was not quite as persistent with pouncing and jumping on her today and that helped a lot. And she really didn't seem to care about him going into the bedroom, probably because she had claimed ownership of the ripple rug. So a pretty good forty minutes today.

 

[calicosrspecial]

They have done better so far today. I had the gates up, Twyla was sleeping in my room and Hooper roamed for about 4 hours. I then heard lots of chirps and meows from Hooper at the gate, she was up and ready to go! Peaceful treat eating and paw taps at the gate. I then stowed Hooper in the powder room while I took the gates down so he wouldn't charge Twyla. Once both were out there were several loud wrestling moments, but each ended fairly quickly (some with intervention and some without). They peaceably ate some wet food about 3 feet apart and Twyla didn't growl or hiss when Hooper sniffed her bowl. The doorbell rang, scaring Hooper and temporarily stopping the craziness,so I briefly shut him in the bedroom while I retrieved a package. It was their new ripple rug! Twyla was fascinated immediately and planted herself on it. I let Hooper out and he tried to investigate but was really respectful of her space. Twice he passed by her really closely and I watched her take her paw and just gently tap him as he ran by! She stayed on the rug, washed her face a bit, and calmly watched as he ran in and out of her room, laid on the stairs, etc. Eventually she went into the bedroom and he came out a moment later. I shut the door for her and she was totally passed out in a sunbeam when I checked a couple of minutes later.

Hooper was not quite as persistent with pouncing and jumping on her today and that helped a lot. And she really didn't seem to care about him going into the bedroom, probably because she had claimed ownership of the ripple rug. So a pretty good forty minutes today.

WOW!! FANTASTIC!!!! REALLY POSITIVE!!

There are always ups and downs but this tells me they are going to be fine. Just keep trying to get these kinds of interactions as much as you can. Distract as needed to try to avoid negativity.

REALLY WELL DONE!!! You are definitely doing the right things.

 

[Furballsmom]

What a wonderful update!!

 

[Twylasmom]

Made it to about 45 minutes in our afternoon session today. Did the usual "meet and treat" at the gate first and Hooper didn't really bother Twyla at first, she was able to walk around and he would approach but back away. For the first 10 minutes or so they were doing their own things in different areas downstairs. She went in to use the litter box and I managed to keep him distracted by playing with him on the ripple rug. Twyla came and sat right next to the rug and watched him play (mostly by himself with me just watching). He then started following and jumping on her, and her turning and swatting him or them rolling around. She will hiss and yowl at him during these altercations, but he is usually not vocal. At one point I shut him in the bedroom for a couple of minutes to calm him down and they batted paws under the door, with Twyla growling a little. Once she moved away and he calmed down I gave them a wet food treat with Twyla on the kitchen island and Hooper on the floor. She ate everything and ignored him (she loves food). She then watched him play on the ripple rug some more and did some grooming and then got down off the island and went towards the bedroom, passing him. I could tell he was thinking about pouncing again so I scooped him up and took him up to his room because I am trying to end the interactions peacefully, and not always by shutting Twyla in.

A couple of things I noticed:

Twyla seems perfectly fine with Hooper until he starts going after her. She is watchful and curious but not aggressive unless defending herself.

Hooper got more wound up after she used the litter box. Coincidence? Or did that spark some territorial instincts?

I still feel it is necessary to have one of them in my sight at all times when they both are out so I can distract where necessary. Is this a decent length of time to do each day at this stage? If they are getting along I would definitely go longer but when he gets wound up he is very hard to distract and I am by nature a cautious person. He gets a good 8 hours a day of solo roaming time, plus any mutual time, and usually is out a good 3 or 4 hours before they are together.

I think we have been doing common space for about 8 weeks now, but not consistently every day. I plan to be very diligent about getting them together every day to see if that helps the progress, and to try and do two rounds each day.

 

[calicosrspecial]

WOW!! THAT is FANTASTIC!!! GREAT job Hooper, Twyla and Twyla's mom!!!

"Hooper didn't really bother Twyla at first, she was able to walk around and he would approach but back away. For the first 10 minutes or so they were doing their own things in different areas downstairs " - This is EXACTLY what we are looking for. Well done!! This tells us they WILL get along. If there were issues this would not be happening.

"She went in to use the litter box and I managed to keep him distracted by playing with him on the ripple rug. Twyla came and sat right next to the rug and watched him play (mostly by himself with me just watching)." - Again, EXACTLY what we are looking to achieve. Using distraction to make a positive encounter. Then she sat right near him and watched him play. POSITIVE encounter!!

"He then started following and jumping on her, and her turning and swatting him or them rolling around" - Totally normal. He wants to play with her. Of course, she is not yet "there" yet so we get a reaction.

" She will hiss and yowl at him" - Normal communication like "stop it" or "knock it off". If there was no biting (blood) and the rebound quickly then it is positive. If one of them acts differently (walks differently, lower, or hides, or avoids) then we have to worry and do some work.

"At one point I shut him in the bedroom for a couple of minutes to calm him down and they batted paws under the door, with Twyla growling a little." - Typically I don't like to take territory away so I tend to try to distract a cat in a positive way (usually using food or play). Last resort would be to close them in a room and if so try to make it as positive as possible. Typically I would zed" to each other try to avoid the pawing and growling since it could be negative. So using distraction is a good idea. BUT I would live to hear more about how Twyla went to his room. I wonder if she wanted to "play" with him a bit and was disappointed he was in another room. Not something a cat would do if the encounter before was "negative".

"Once she moved away and he calmed down I gave them a wet food treat with Twyla on the kitchen island and Hooper on the floor. She ate everything and ignored him (she loves food). She then watched him play on the ripple rug some more and did some grooming and then got down off the island and went towards the bedroom, passing him." - Exactly the right thing to do!! WELL DONE!! Positive association and positive encounter!! REALLY well done!!

"I could tell he was thinking about pouncing again so I scooped him up. - Well done. Avoiding a potential negative is a positive. Just make sure he views it as a positive.

"I am trying to end the interactions peacefully, and not always by shutting Twyla in." - Exactly the right thing PERFECT!!

"Twyla seems perfectly fine with Hooper until he starts going after her. She is watchful and curious but not aggressive unless defending herself" - It is great that she is accepting him this much and tells me you are making great progress. Totally normal. It is her way of communicating to him what is acceptable. She is doing her part in the intro process.

"Hooper got more wound up after she used the litter box. Coincidence? Or did that spark some territorial instincts?" - Good question. I think it is more excitement rather than territorial. Territorial; would be him marking most likely.

"I still feel it is necessary to have one of them in my sight at all times when they both are out so I can distract where necessary. Is this a decent length of time to do each day at this stage? If they are getting along I would definitely go longer but when he gets wound up he is very hard to distract and I am by nature a cautious person. He gets a good 8 hours a day of solo roaming time, plus any mutual time, and usually is out a good 3 or 4 hours before they are together." - EXACTLY the right way to be. 45 minutes is AMAZING!!! It really doesn't matter the length so long as it is positive. Of course the longer the positive encounter the better.

You are doing great. You are probably 95% of the way to the intro. We just have to get Hooper to not be so energetic with Twyla and to learn to read her interest with play and when to back off. Of course, for a young cat with loads of energy it is hard so getting Twyla to feel confident and to get the message across will be a big part of it. Just keep doing what you are doing, positive associations (feeding), positive encounters, distract Hooper as need, and build confidence (Play, Food, Height and Love).

You are doing great, the exact right things and they will get along. This last bit takes some time (8 weeks is actually pretty fast) but you are going to succeed. The progress you have made is fantastic. GREAT work!!

Please let us know if you have any questions. Keep up the great work.

 

[Twylasmom]

Thank you for the reassurance and advice! I needed to work on "height" so I got a new cat tree today and Twyla supervised the construction. The ripple rug is a huge hit with both of them.

Just a clarification - I shut Hooper in Twyla's room today when he went nuts, not his. That had been a big territorial thing but that has gotten a lot better. As soon as she was safely away I let him back out and fed them.

One other thing that has been happening is that Twyla will go upstairs and just quietly sit outside of Hooper's room. It is possible they are playing under the door, because I will hear him meow and thump around but she never hisses or growls. Her seeking him out seems very positive, she has been up and down the stairs quite a bit, even with her arthritis.

 

[Furballsmom]

she has been up and down the stairs quite a bit, even with her arthritis.

Oh wow, getting more exercise, that's great!

 

[calicosrspecial]

Fantastic on the cat tree. Twyla sounds SO CUTE!!! Supervising. 't come out, etc
Ripple Rug - That is great. Getting that positive association, just making a positive feeling. Anything that leads to happiness helps in creating a positive environment makes it easier to make positive associations and positive encounters. FANTASTIC!!!

"I shut Hooper in Twyla's room today when he went nuts, not his." - Interesting. He may be less comfortable in "foreign" territory so it could be riskier than in his own. BUT as long as you try to make it as positive as possible then it could be very good. And watching how he views it (does he act positively) then that is what matters. Watching how a cat reacts tells us a lot.

"That had been a big territorial thing but that has gotten a lot better." - It probably doesn't matter at this point since things are going really well but can you explain what exactly was a "territorial thing"? What exactly was happening near or in her room. GREAT that it is getting better. Is it almost a non-issue now? Or are there some things still going in there?

"As soon as she was safely away I let him back out and fed them." - PERFECT. Exactly the right thing to do, make it positive.

"One other thing that has been happening is that Twyla will go upstairs and just quietly sit outside of Hooper's room. It is possible they are playing under the door, because I will hear him meow and thump around but she never hisses or growls. Her seeking him out seems very positive, she has been up and down the stairs quite a bit, even with her arthritis." - Wow. That is really interesting. We would have to know more about what is going on to get a better idea of a conclusion. It could be she is trying to "keep" him in there, monitor him so he doesn't come out, etc. NOW given what I am sensing in how they interact that seems unlikely. But it is possible. OR she is seeking him out because she wants to play with him, interact with him. Not hearing growling or hissing supports that. Watching how she reacts (her body language) and his will tell us a lot. They can't talk verbally (for the most part) but they sure can communicate with their body language. Given their recent interactions it does seem more likely it is a positive that she is going to see him. We'll know more in the coming days given how they interact.

REALLY great job. Just keep doing what you are doing. It is working!! There will always be ups and downs but you are well past the risk point. They will be successfully intro'd. No doubt. We'll help you finish the process off.

 

[Twylasmom]

45 minutes seems the magic number for now, so hope to start stretching it out a bit more soon. Today followed the usual routine, but as I was taking down the gates to let Twyla out Hooper jumped over and landed right next to her, she just walked away. They got into it about three times, all the result of Hooper running after Twyla and pouncing. However there were a couple of times he just ran right past her, and if he approaches her from the front he usually backs off. We spent time in the living room, dining room and bedroom. I find if I sit on the floor near Twyla that keeps the pouncing to a minimum. If I can keep Hooper busy with toys he isn't really interested in Twyla, and she is then pretty comfortable being close to him. He was playing like crazy with the wand toy on the ripple rug and she sat about a foot away and watched the entire time. I would flip the toy between them but she preferred to watch. Hooper was too wound up to eat when I gave them wet food so I gave him that as a treat when I took him up to his room at the end of the session. Twyla got her own 10 minute play session after, she usually has a lot of pent up energy from their group time. It is really fun to watch her be so playful. She is now sleeping next to me and getting belly rubs.

I felt like we could have gone longer today, but wanted to end at a positive moment.

 

[calicosrspecial]

"as I was taking down the gates to let Twyla out Hooper jumped over and landed right next to her, she just walked away" - WOW, that is trust!! FANTASTIC. Exactly what we are looking to see. Well done.

"They got into it about three times, all the result of Hooper running after Twyla and pouncing" - Sounds like all he wants to do is play. If it wasn't play then Twyla would be really cautious of him all the time. She is probably just communicating her "line" to him.

"However there were a couple of times he just ran right past her, and if he approaches her from the front he usually backs off." - This tells me it is play and also that Twyla is communicating to him successfully that she doesn't want to play so rough. Great progress.

"I find if I sit on the floor near Twyla that keeps the pouncing to a minimum." - As long as you can safely that is great. I do this all the time but you do have t be careful that you don't accidentally get hurt.

"If I can keep Hooper busy with toys he isn't really interested in Twyla, and she is then pretty comfortable being close to him. He was playing like crazy with the wand toy on the ripple rug and she sat about a foot away and watched the entire time. " - Exactly what we want to do. Positive association, positive encounter. Excellent!!! Avoiding negativity is a positive.

"Hooper was too wound up to eat when I gave them wet food so I gave him that as a treat when I took him up to his room at the end of the session. " - Perfect.

"Twyla got her own 10 minute play session after, she usually has a lot of pent up energy from their group time. It is really fun to watch her be so playful. She is now sleeping next to me and getting belly rubs." - This is awesome and tells me that she seems really happy and the intro is going really well. You are doing great!! It really is about watching how they act, how they behave. They tells us how they interpret things.

45 minutes is great AND you ended on a positive. Positives build on positives and build that trust and confidence between them.

Just keep up what you are doing. You are doing great. Keep reinforcing the positive encounters and positive associations and that will give the the trust and confidence. It already seems like they are really close to that goal of having them think " I know that cat, that cat is cool, no threat:.

AWESOME!! WELL DONE!! Keep up the great work!!

 

[Twylasmom]

Here are a few pictures of my cuties.

 

[calicosrspecial]

ADORABLE!!!

They sure look like they are loving life!!

Thanks for sharing!

By the way, I am really proud of Hooper, Twyla and you for the progress you are making.

 

[pearl99]

Here are a few pictures of my cuties.

Adorable pictures! Reading the latest on your thread it's great progress! Very happy for all.

 

[Twylasmom]

Nothing new or earth shattering to report, still at about 45 minutes with interactions usually ended because a) Hooper goes into overdrive or b) Twyla gets disgusted and retreats to her space. We had a 45 degree temperature change here which has possibly made Twyla's arthritis bother her a bit so she has been a bit more hissy and less active, so I am respecting her pace.

This morning was quite good, only one full on tussle and some warning hisses and swats from Twyla. Hooper backs off quite a bit, and mainly pounces if he has a chance to sneak up from behind. I'm pretty sure that they were playing at one point. Twyla was under a dining room chair and Hooper jumped on the chair and was reaching down to swat at her and she swatted back. She was hissing but they kept it at it for a couple rounds until he jumped down and ran off.

 

[calicosrspecial]

45 minutes is great. The temp change would do that. Very good that you are respecting her desires. It is all about making positive associations and positive encounters so if someone is not feeling great it is best to let everything go on pause to keep it positive (no negativity).

How does she retreat to her space? Normal? Walks the usual way, etc?

Hooper backing off is a great sign. And when tussles do not lead to anything bad (blood, etc) it shows the cats are showing restraint (not wanting to hurt the other cat). THAT is a very good sign as that shows their intent (how they are feeling towards the other cat).

Yes, that chair play sure sounds like play. He probably wanted to be chased when he ran off.

Always watch how they act after anything like this. If they act normal. Walk the same way as usual, go to the same places (not avoiding anywhere), not avoiding each other, etc then they are telling us it is not anything negative.

I am going to be busy for the rest of the day so the next chance I will get to check the site is tomorrow. But it sounds like all is going well over by you. Great to get this wonderful updates. Keep up the great work.

 

[Twylasmom]

They had a couple of cute moments this evening. Hooper came into the bedroom and Twyla was sitting on the corner of the bed. He came over, stood up to greet her and they had a good nose to nose and sides of face touch. He came up on the bed, got on the cat tree, etc. while she watched. Later I was tossing toys for them on the floor and Twyla flopped down in front of Hooper, rolled partially on her back and reached out her paw at him! Of course she got hissy when he responded and they ended up wrestling, but she definitely invited him to play. She was obviously feeling much better today. She still gets tired of his non-stop energy (as do I!) but I feel that if we could get to a point where they don't always have to be constantly in each other's business that they could be out together longer. That feels like a step that it is going to take a while, because she wants to nap when he wants to play.

 

[cat nap]

...Later I was tossing toys for them on the floor and Twyla flopped down in front of Hooper, rolled partially on her back and reached out her paw at him! Of course she got hissy when he responded and they ended up wrestling, but she definitely invited him to play. She was obviously feeling much better today. She still gets tired of his non-stop energy (as do I!) but I feel that if we could get to a point where they don't always have to be constantly in each other's business that they could be out together longer. That feels like a step that it is going to take a while, because she wants to nap when he wants to play.

I know you mentioned that you have many toys for Hooper and Twyla, but are you into 'arts and crafts'.
A member on another thread, Animal Freak , mentioned how mental stimulation for a cat is very effective for tiring them out.

So what about making some homemade cat puzzles. (pretty much all these ideas are from other members)
Homemade Puzzles - Food Puzzles for Cats
(the above link was provided by Furballsmom ..and also Hellenww .)
(I just did a "search" for 'cat food puzzles'....in the upper right hand corner...and you get many threads that mention them.)