Introducing Cats - Logistics Questions.

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Twylasmom

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Day 5. A long work day for me, so just a little gate time this morning and a half hour of communal time this evening. Still lots of hissing and growling, but no outright aggression this time. Twyla wants a good six to eight feet between them. She lets me know when she's had enough and asks to go in the bedroom. I then give Hooper some good playtime before going back in his room.

After that I let Twyla back out and she plays by herself. She has gotten more active since we have started more direct interactions, it is more stimulation than she is used to and it seems to be good for her. I spoke to her previous owner and he said she had only lived with another cat briefly when she was younger (she's 11 now), so it is understandable why she is taking a lot of time to adjust.
 
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Twylasmom

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Quick question - I have been limiting the communal space time to about 30-45 minutes ( this is usually when Twyla asks to go back to her room). Should I try and make these sessions longer? I also feel like I may be hovering over them too much in case contact gets too aggressive ( hasn't happened yet, though Twyla routinely chases Hooper and jumps him as well).

Sometimes it feels like Twyla will never accept him, our progress is slooow.
 

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Sometimes it feels like Twyla will never accept him, our progress is slooow.
I think you're doing better than it feels :)

You can only go as fast as the slowest cat. For now, since Twyla is asking after about a half hour I'd stay with that.

Can you maybe find a way to be somewhatinconspicuous like behind a door yet be able to observe for that half hour?
 
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Twylasmom

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It is like the Wild West here! Twyla will watch Hooper and continues to hiss and growl and then chase him and pounce whenever he crosses a certain line with her. He just wants to get close to her and is constantly trying to push the boundary. It does seem that the line may be getting a little closer but we have yet to achieve anything like a get to know you sniff and nose touch, though she will sit and watch him for extended periods.

Twyla is being much more active, playful and curious overall. Today she jumped on the bathroom counter for the first time in months. Last night and again today, she actually climbed the stairs (which she mostly avoids) and hissed and growled at the door to Hooper's room. This afternoon she essentially trapped me in there with him (I didn't know she was out there). I held the door in a cracked position until she had her say and wandered off. I don't know if this is a step forward or a step back?
 

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It can be so hard to tell with cats ... keep trying ... I'm on month 11 (ish) of trying to get my cats to be civil and we all had a cuddle on the couch last night for the first time! I have never had both cats on my lap together and then last night we had a full night of actual sleep with both cats on the bed. We still have a ways to go but trust your instincts ... try to end things on a positive note if you can. For my two, they will always come to an immediate truce if I pull out treats/food. It'll be really rewarding when you look back and see how far you've come.
 
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Twylasmom

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Yeah, she wasn't having it tonight. After about 15 minutes of staring and growling she just walked away. They both were wired up after so each got some vigorous play afterwards. They did eat treats about eight feet apart.

This week I have an irregular schedule again (working a couple of nights as well as usual days) so there may be a couple of days with no mutual time at all so that will probably slow things down a bit. I have the whole week of Thanksgiving off so I am hoping we will be at a point by then where we can do longer (or multiple short sessions) by then and perhaps make some forward progress.

Has anyone tried putting the new cat into a large cage in the main space where the resident cat has the opportunity to interact in a more controlled way? I would be willing to invest in a two level cat cage if that might help with the introductions.
 
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Twylasmom

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I admit I am feeling a bit frustrated with the lack of forward progress. Twyla is still growling and hissing a lot, though the distance at which that occurs does seem to have shrunk a bit. Usually Hooper will be out by himself for 5 or 6 hours early in the day (Twyla is a morning sleeper so It works well to do this) with the gate up on the bedroom door. He periodically looks in to see if she is awake and eventually she will come to the door and meow. Sometimes they will eat treats right near each other through the gate, but sometimes she won't. Today they had a peaceful nose touch through the gate (a first!) and she passed him very closely when I let her out. There were a few territorial moments and eventually both ended up on the kitchen island. I split a Sheba for them and Twyla chowed down and Hooper ate most of his. Once he got down from the island she mostly just watched and then got really vocal again when she got down. That meant she had enough for the day so she walked back to her room. After a few more minutes of play I put Hooper in his room so she could come back out. She always looks for him but then relaxes when she knows he's gone.

She is definitely the alpha and is setting boundaries and he is full of curiosity but backs down when challenged.

The meetings are still quite short (about 30 minutes). I keep hoping to see some signs of peaceful coexistence but it is still pretty tense.

The other thing I have learned is he is really scared of other people. I tend to socialize away from home so I am not sure what to do about that. My friend came over yesterday and he hid from her the whole time.

Here is a picture from today. He is getting big, but she still has a couple of pounds on him!

IMG_0121.JPG
IMG_0120.JPG
 

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I am not sure what to do about that. My friend came over yesterday and he hid from her the whole time.
Maybe not a big deal - my boy hates/fears most people and hides. I personally don't find it a problem. Likely if you have someone who comes over regularly, and you both ignore him while that person is there, you could find that he may come out (continue to ignore him if you see a furry face peeking out somewhere ;) ).

However, it's probably best to leave that decision to him :)
 

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About being afraid of people- I don't mind it either. I don't have a lot of people over either. I think that's OK for cats. It could be a temperament thing that won't reverse. I have one that is totally afraid of other people (they have to be around 24/7 for a few days before he will show his face, as in out of town people visiting); and one that decides on a case by case basis. Maybe she will come out, maybe not.
I think the only way to socialize them is to have someone/more than one person over frequently, like every day or two. But I think they are fine without that. If the same person is over with some frequency your kitty may start to come out for that person :hellosmiley:.
 
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Twylasmom

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Things really aren't getting better between the two of them. She still hisses and growls even through the gates and will go upstairs and growl at him through his closed door (she is doing it right now) and he just cries. I don't know what to do. Given this development should I back off on interaction in the communal space for a bit?

I have ordered a cat cage with levels with the intent of putting him in it (with litter box and food) in the living room so he can be safe but she can get used to being around him as I feel like they don't get enough contact. Has anyone used this approach and has it helped?

I was reluctant to take him in in the first place for this very reason, but of course I don't want to give him up now. Twyla is just so territorial.

It is all very upsetting and I don't know how to make it get better. I am making sure they both get lots of love and individual attention.
 

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I have no experience to draw from here, but wanted to send every good hope and thought for you!!
 

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Things really aren't getting better between the two of them. She still hisses and growls even through the gates and will go upstairs and growl at him through his closed door (she is doing it right now) and he just cries. I don't know what to do. Given this development should I back off on interaction in the communal space for a bit?

I have ordered a cat cage with levels with the intent of putting him in it (with litter box and food) in the living room so he can be safe but she can get used to being around him as I feel like they don't get enough contact. Has anyone used this approach and has it helped?

I was reluctant to take him in in the first place for this very reason, but of course I don't want to give him up now. Twyla is just so territorial.

It is all very upsetting and I don't know how to make it get better. I am making sure they both get lots of love and individual attention.
I have not used the cat cage with different levels approach.

(Though I have used a cat carrier to introduce two cats, but these were only quick introductions between aunt's cat and mine...so entirely different than what your intentions and purpose are.
Also have used a dog crate, but only for puppy to cat intros. Again, entirely different than your situation.)

I think you are actually doing a fantastic job on the cat introductions.
I know it can be so upsetting and frustrating, because you feel that only little progress has been made...but if you look at it from the beginning of the introductions...then it is more like huge steps...forward.

There will be some setbacks, or what looks like setbacks, or pauses...but only because as Furballsmom Furballsmom , has mentioned...
it has to be at the pace of the slowest cat. And actually that pace can change, depending upon which cat takes the lead.

Can I ask just a few questions, to clarify some things you mentioned:
Is Twyla always growling at Hooper?
When you mentioned vocalization....is she also doing that 'low rumble, then high pitched' sort of vocalization, ...where you know she is getting super irritated?

You mentioned, that Twyla pounces on Hooper...but does Hooper ever pounce or fight back with Twyla?.
(I ask, because I find it strange that the younger one is not the pouncer?)
Sometimes people will get a third kitten, just to act as a buffer, to take the pressure off of a senior cat, who their new kitten is always trying to bother.
This doesn't seem to be the case here, though. Since you have only mentioned Twyla being vocal.

I also find your photos very helpful.
And if you can take videos of your own cats, and then watch them back....notice how each cat's body posture is....ears, fur, back, tail.
Since the little movements, will help you see how their 'fight or flight' response looks.

Lastly, if you could let each cat in their opposite rooms, ....multiple times...then this may get each cat super-accustomed to each other's scent.
Because Twyla is a senior, and you mentioned arthritis...does she take any supplements for it? Or any other meds?
If any cats are on medications, ...then this may also affect how another cat treats them...since they may smell different.
 
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Twylasmom

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I have not used the cat cage with different levels approach.

(Though I have used a cat carrier to introduce two cats, but these were only quick introductions between aunt's cat and mine...so entirely different than what your intentions and purpose are.
Also have used a dog crate, but only for puppy to cat intros. Again, entirely different than your situation.)

I think you are actually doing a fantastic job on the cat introductions.
I know it can be so upsetting and frustrating, because you feel that only little progress has been made...but if you look at it from the beginning of the introductions...then it is more like huge steps...forward.

There will be some setbacks, or what looks like setbacks, or pauses...but only because as Furballsmom Furballsmom , has mentioned...
it has to be at the pace of the slowest cat. And actually that pace can change, depending upon which cat takes the lead.

Can I ask just a few questions, to clarify some things you mentioned:
Is Twyla always growling at Hooper?
When you mentioned vocalization....is she also doing that 'low rumble, then high pitched' sort of vocalization, ...where you know she is getting super irritated?

You mentioned, that Twyla pounces on Hooper...but does Hooper ever pounce or fight back with Twyla?.
(I ask, because I find it strange that the younger one is not the pouncer?)
Sometimes people will get a third kitten, just to act as a buffer, to take the pressure off of a senior cat, who their new kitten is always trying to bother.
This doesn't seem to be the case here, though. Since you have only mentioned Twyla being vocal.

I also find your photos very helpful.
And if you can take videos of your own cats, and then watch them back....notice how each cat's body posture is....ears, fur, back, tail.
Since the little movements, will help you see how their 'fight or flight' response looks.

Lastly, if you could let each cat in their opposite rooms, ....multiple times...then this may get each cat super-accustomed to each other's scent.
Because Twyla is a senior, and you mentioned arthritis...does she take any supplements for it? Or any other meds?
If any cats are on medications, ...then this may also affect how another cat treats them...since they may smell different.
Thanks for your reply. To answer your questions - Twyla isn't always growling at Hooper, she usually hisses first and if he pushes it with her she will growl. She will go up to the high pitch every once in a while, and I usually take this as a signal to end things. But there are times she will just sit and watch him, or try and walk away, and sometimes even look for him if he gets out of her sight. She is quite comfortable sitting and watching him through the safety of a gate. She usually goes after him when he gets too close.

Hooper talks to Twyla, usually curious chirps and trills, but has only hissed at her a couple of times. He usually runs away when chased but will come right back afterwards. I have watched him follow right behind her and sort of stalk her but haven't seen him pounce.

Twyla takes Dasuquin and it helps her a lot. We did have an extreme weather change to cold this week so I do think that has been affecting her the past couple of days. The arthritis means she doesn't always go upstairs where his room is and I have been wary of forcibly taking her up there to investigate his room (getting her in a carrier is challenging). I do need to find a way to let him explore her room. This is one of the reasons I have been considering using the cage, she could observe him and smell him in a controlled way and he would be able to climb to an upper level if he felt threatened.

I have really backed off on interactions the past couple of days because my schedule has been erratic, so theirs has been, too. Hope to get back to a better schedule soon and take it slow. We had been making slow steady progress so I do have to accept that setbacks are part of the process.
 
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Hi, thanks for those answers.
Again, I think you are doing really, really well with the introductions. Quite excellent, in fact.

If I am understanding correctly, you will only be using the cat cage, ...to ensure that Hooper can be in the same room with both you and Twyla....say watching t.v.....or such?
I'm hoping that this will work, but I just don't know if Hooper will feel like he is being punished, by being in a cage.
If he is a mellow cat, then, hopefully he won't.

Is your goal, to have them become playmates...or just hang out in the same room together?

Edit to Add: Either way, you have already ordered the cat cage with levels, and this will prevent both cats from fighting with each other, while both staying in the same room together. For short periods of time, it may be very useful to see their reactions.
 
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Also, does your home have many high places for Hooper to escape to, in case Twyla tries to pounce on him?
So as Hooper never feels cornered by her.

(I find it so interesting that the younger cat is the one, that is not bothering the senior.
It shows that Hooper has respect for Twyla's reactions.)
 
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Twylasmom

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Yes, I want him to be able to spend more time out of his room while daily stuff is happening to see if that helps them get more comfortable with each other. I plan to put the cage by my patio door, so Hooper will be able to watch birds, which he loves. I figure it can't hurt to try it! He is a big climber, so goes to high perches when he feels threatened, or shoots upstairs where Twyla usually doesn't follow.

It is an interesting dynamic between the two of them, I thought that he would be the aggressor since he is so young and energetic, but he is mostly a nuisance to her. Before I brought him inside (when he was still a small kitten) he interacted with two adult neighborhood cats so he had a little experience. Twyla has had very limited contact with other cats, and hasn't lived with one for years (I have only had her for a year and a half) so this is a big step for her.

My goal is for them to be able to share the space and be able to hang out in the same room. I don't care if they are playmates.
 

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That's good Twylasmom Twylasmom .
So you now seem to be on the part of just wanting 'peaceful interactions'.
I think it will definitely happen. It just seems to take such a long time.

What you may end up with, is just both cats being able to share space....but it might not be close space.
Nothing wrong with that.
(My cats are female and male siblings, and were super-playful as kittens, but now at 4.5 yrs....they act more like roommates, or acquaintances that don't really like each other,....depending upon the day. Yes, they still play...but it looks more like a run, chase, wrestle, loud meow, grumble or growl...and then each go their own way. It always looks like a fight, and I always thought it was the male cat who was the bully...but no...sometimes the smaller female initiates the chase.)

Twyla definitely seems to be interested in Hooper.
Some of her growling and hissing may also be her way of trying to interact with him.
She may have actually went up to his room and growled at his door...to try and get him out to interact.

Anyhow, will be awaiting your next updates. Sending positive cat-vibes to you, Twyla and Hooper.
 
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