But poor girl. I hope it doesn’t come to that.
But poor girl. I hope it doesn’t come to that.
Betty is still a trooper and so are you.I wonder if what I think is nausea (swallow, lick lick) is really just a sore throat from the endo instrument.
Nauseated cats don’t easily put their heads down. Then they pop back up when they feel it again. But Betty seems comfortable enough to go from laying to sitting and back to laying again. But she also seems very weakened from all this business.
Betty has not come to the bed tonight to cuddle. But she did weakly halfway emerge from the poof. I decided to get down to the floor to see how she was doing. Seeing me in bunting range sparked something in her. She did not have any vigor behind it. But she did come up and lay down next to me. We spent some close time, some of it forehead to forehead on the floor while she purred and weakly chirped and enjoyed some petting. And then when she had her fill, she got up and went back to her poof. As long as she’s not laying in her litter box or showing other signs of extreme weakness, I don’t have to run her down to urgent care tonight.
Yes that’s true. Through this all, I haven’t seen any vomiting or poop disturbances (except perhaps a diminishing output as one would expect with diminishing inputs.) I asked Dr G’s nurse if there might be pain involved in the recovery, and she dismissed it. I wish I had thought of this earlier. Well, let’s do our diligence and perform the imaging. Then when I speak with the internist before outtake, I can ask him for a few doses of bupe—assuming the imaging doesn’t turn up anything more serious. If she rallies with bupe, great! We can avoid a feeding tube. If she doesn’t, I don’t know how long she can languish on reduced intake before she will need a feeding tube to get her through this.Betty is still a trooper and so are you.
Try not to go to 'worst case scenario'...even though I think that all of us here, have 'worry' as our middle names.
If it were a rupture, or tear, then I figure you would see it in her vomiting blood, or dark coloured stools.
Even with Betty on antiemitics...I still think she would vomit blood...if it were serious.
I am a little disappointed that they did not offer you some sort of 'pain meds' for a few days...since Betty seemed to be okay, the day after her procedure,...probably due to the anesthetic effect still in her system,...and also the hydration they gave her.
If they can tackle the 'low grade fever', then Hopefully Betty will start to feel a lot better.
It's still a good sign, that all this time, Betty was still eating...even if it were not up to her usual amounts.
Sending you and your Betty, the Best for tomorrow, daftcat75
What a day. *Prayers* continuing. My intuition is on the side of the AnimalBiome. Yours seems to be, too.All the imaging and in-house labs and still nothing.
Except… He said “I’m just throwing this out here but it’s exceedingly difficult for us to diagnose and confirm. It may be dry FIP.” He didn’t find any fluid in the X-rays so he’s got nothing to test. He will do the antibody titer test. But he also told me that it doesn’t really mean much. It could be positive without FIP or in some cases negative but still have it. So we’re basically going to shelve this possibility since it’s almost unknowable.
Dr said there may still be an infection that they weren’t able to detect. If we start immune-suppressing steroids, we could make matters worse.
So, as much as we have been trying to avoid antibiotics, we both agree that it’s safer to try them first before the steroids. We’ll just have to clean up the damage to her biome after she finishes the antibiotics. I already dropped my support contact at AnimalBiome an email to discuss whether she’ll need two capsules a day after antibiotics or just continue with the one a day plan.
Dr doesn’t believe she needs to be admitted and a feeding tube is probably not necessary as she’s still eating some food. “Feed her whatever she wants to eat including as much A/D as she wants.”
She’s home. She’s better. But that’s probably the fluids. I almost didn’t want to give her the antibiotic this afternoon as I don’t want to ruin the rest of her night. But we saw this on Monday where she felt better from fluids only to come crashing down again. We only have to seven doses and I’d rather give them during the day. If it’s going to upset her stomach, I’d rather that not be during peak eating hours for her.
Maybe the antibiotics will do something for her mouth bacteria too.
And I got a response from AnimalBiome. They said research shows that s boulardii can help keep the negative effects of antibiotics to a minimum. I ordered their supplement on one day ground. I will pack a few capsules tonight too. These will replace her poop pills until three or four days after we stop the antibiotics. Then we can start the poop pills again. We’re recommended to keep giving the s boulardii for a couple months.
We also got prescriptions for sucralfate since I mentioned she might be having throat irritation. And gabapentin since opioids can cause fever in cats and we’re trying to avoid that. Both have instructions on when to give them that I would need some scheduling software to construct a med schedule for her. I’ll be holding off on the sucralfate and gabapentin for a few days to see if the Veraflox is going to work. If she’s taking three drugs that all list nausea and vomiting as side effects, I think that would be very difficult to gauge a rebound.
She’s had about a 2/3 meal of pure A/D and her antibiotic. I’m going to let her sleep in the sun while I finish up my workday. Then we can give her her regular meds: Cerenia, ondansetron, and s boulardii now.
How does a Specialist go from IBD to FIP...based on fever of unknown origin...(FUO)...when this fever started after his endoscopic procedure??All the imaging and in-house labs and still nothing.
Except… He said “I’m just throwing this out here but it’s exceedingly difficult for us to diagnose and confirm. It may be dry FIP.” He didn’t find any fluid in the X-rays so he’s got nothing to test. He will do the antibody titer test. But he also told me that it doesn’t really mean much. It could be positive without FIP or in some cases negative but still have it. So we’re basically going to shelve this possibility since it’s almost unknowable.
Dr said there may still be an infection that they weren’t able to detect. If we start immune-suppressing steroids, we could make matters worse.
So, as much as we have been trying to avoid antibiotics, we both agree that it’s safer to try them first before the steroids. We’ll just have to clean up the damage to her biome after she finishes the antibiotics. I already dropped my support contact at AnimalBiome an email to discuss whether she’ll need two capsules a day after antibiotics or just continue with the one a day plan.
Dr doesn’t believe she needs to be admitted and a feeding tube is probably not necessary as she’s still eating some food. “Feed her whatever she wants to eat including as much A/D as she wants.”
She’s home. She’s better. But that’s probably the fluids. I almost didn’t want to give her the antibiotic this afternoon as I don’t want to ruin the rest of her night. But we saw this on Monday where she felt better from fluids only to come crashing down again. We only have to seven doses and I’d rather give them during the day. If it’s going to upset her stomach, I’d rather that not be during peak eating hours for her.
Maybe the antibiotics will do something for her mouth bacteria too.
And I got a response from AnimalBiome. They said research shows that s boulardii can help keep the negative effects of antibiotics to a minimum. I ordered their supplement on one day ground. I will pack a few capsules tonight too. These will replace her poop pills until three or four days after we stop the antibiotics. Then we can start the poop pills again. We’re recommended to keep giving the s boulardii for a couple months.
We also got prescriptions for sucralfate since I mentioned she might be having throat irritation. And gabapentin since opioids can cause fever in cats and we’re trying to avoid that. Both have instructions on when to give them that I would need some scheduling software to construct a med schedule for her. I’ll be holding off on the sucralfate and gabapentin for a few days to see if the Veraflox is going to work. If she’s taking three drugs that all list nausea and vomiting as side effects, I think that would be very difficult to gauge a rebound.
She’s had about a 2/3 meal of pure A/D and her antibiotic. I’m going to let her sleep in the sun while I finish up my workday. Then we can give her her regular meds: Cerenia, ondansetron, and s boulardii now.
Re: FIP, he said, I’m only throwing this out because it has similar non-specific symptoms. But it’s extremely difficult to diagnose without a fluid sample. He also said, it could be another viral infection. It could have been latent and the stress of the whole experience woke it up and activated it. But he also didn’t give this one much credence. He said these are not diagnoses and I can’t say with any degree of confidence that one of these may be happening. But I also cannot say with any degree of confidence that this is not the case.How does a Specialist go from IBD to FIP...based on fever of unknown origin...(FUO)...when this fever started after his endoscopic procedure??
(god, my head is spinning,...so I can only imagine the day you've had, daftcat75 )
It would make more sense, if the Specialist mentioned that perhaps somehow bacteria got into Betty's bloodstream, during the endoscopy/biopsy...but it's not yet at the levels...of showing up on normal bloodwork.)
Good that Betty was given fluids, and ate, and hoping that the antibiotics knock out any secondary infections...and yes, it would be a bonus...if it knocked any bacteria around the teeth/mouth, too.
Is there any chance that the Animal Biome people,...would give you some sort of 'discount'...on sending in a 'tomorrow sample of poop'...so they could analyze it...for potential 'gut biome/bacteria'...that is currently present?
Just thinking that if you could know where her 'gut biome' is today....then comparing it...to an after sample...of when the poop pills are restarted and finished...then somehow that would help in 'helping to soothe the inflammation that is happening in Betty's intestines'...due to the IBD.
(of course, this would not potentially work,..since the antibiotics will 'reset'..and potentially 'wipe out all the good bacteria', too. )
Okay, never mind...I was just 'thinking out loud'...again.
Still continuing to Send you the Best Health Thoughts, for Betty.
And that she recovers from this 'feeling lousy'...quite quickly.
Yes to this, we gave fluids to our previous cat (she was old and frail but still very, hm, very insistent on having her way!) and it wasn't too difficult. It really helped, though, that we put a hook into a beam so we could hang the fluid bag from the ceiling.Sub Q fluids are really not difficult to do. I think Betty would be good at it. I had to give daily sub-q's to Artie. He was an absolute terror at the Vets.. but allowed me to do it, with ease.
I always feel like there's always more to these stories, too. Another possibility for bad breath is a food that doesn't agree with Betty. Edwina had that with potato when we first adopted her: some of her Weruva foods had potato in them but her bad breath went away when I realized potato was making her barf. We were very fortunate to figure that out early on through dumb luck -- as you say, artiemom , trial and error is key.I still wonder about her teeth/gums.. If her breath is that bad.. something is causing an infection-- think periodontal disease.
Perhaps some bacteria got into her blood stream? Can they do a blood culture looking for it.. or somehow a swab of her mouth?/gums?
I am not saying she does not have IBD.. but, I think there is more to it..
So far, so good, and yes, guarded optimism. Slow and steady, Betty.Unless anyone can help us rule in or rule out dry FIP, we’re done with that option. He said it was a long shot. But he mentioned it because FIP can be a fever that waxes and wanes with elevated globulins in the blood. But those aren’t specific to FIP only.
Her teeth definitely need to be addressed. But my regular vet says, “I’m in no rush to anesthetize her again. Let’s get her stable once more and then we can talk about her teeth.” I hope this isn’t where reality trumps best intentions once more. But I do think we may be able to get back to good if yesterday and this morning holds. I sure hope I’m not simply seeing the waning of a cyclical waxing and waning fever.
But for last night and this morning, she seems to be rallying once more. She ate 115 calories yesterday. Over half her calories and she was fasted half the day. But we’ve seen this before. It could certainly slow again as the hunger isn’t so intense. Her irritations and pains could come back and regulate her input. She had a couple tiny regurgs last night. I mean tiny. One was just too much food swallowed in one bite and that one and half bites worth of food came back up. The other was largely the same. She threw up just a tiny bite or two in her mouth, caught it, and swallowed it again. It was kinda gross. But what a trooper. That was her medicine meal and I didn’t want all her meds coming back up.
I think she’s having trouble chewing her food and I think she’s having trouble swallowing. The swallowing is probably endo irritation. The soft pate of A/D is helping here. The chewing, I think she’s getting food caught up somewhere. She will pull up and spend a fair effort trying to dislodge something in her mouth. At this point, it’s 50/50 chance whether she’ll continue eating or walk away. The soft pate of A/D should also help here. I don’t know about the teeth. But I think the throat is getting better. She’s certainly giving me full-throated sass once more.
Let me see another good day or two of eating. Then we need to get back to something more sustainable. We can start with a 10% rabbit to A/D mix.
We’ve stopped the poop pills. She’s doing really well at taking the s boulardii rolled into A/D balls. She doesn’t love the yeast like Krista did. But she loves the A/D and finds the yeasty balls acceptable with enough A/D.
She had a this morning. It was mostly normal. It looked like it may have had a softer patch. But it all scooped with ease. It’s probably too soon in the antibiotics for that to go to mush. But she is also taking almost a full s.boulardii capsule in her yeast balls.
Encouraging signs. But we’ve seen rallies fade before. Guarded optimism.
A lot of people do better with several small meals rather than 1 or 2 or 3 major meals every day. All of the cats in my life have grazed, coming back multiple times to eat, except for one, my roomies' cat, who snorked 2 big meals every day and became obese, sadly.She has most of a first breakfast in the books. The A/D is a rich food. I don't fault her if she's only eating 20 grams at a time. I left a second breakfast out for her in case she gets hungry before lunch. Because it's a rich food and she's not eating whole meals at a time, I'd rather just keep the mini-meals coming until I'm feeling more confident that she's turned the corner. At that time, I can start mixing Rawz into the A/D to dilute it (much more slowly than 1/3 new food this time.) The A/D seems to hold up better outside the fridge than the I/D or A/D:I/D mix. I'm thinking we'll also get similar longevity from A/D:Rawz mix. Rawz rabbit held up a long time on a plate (or in a feeder)--if Krista allowed it.
Alright then. Second breakfast is mostly in the books. "Give me an hour and I'll give you another." I want to make sure she's taking time to digest these. She is also back on the hairball treats which is a good sign. When she didn't even want to eat the hairball treats on Tuesday, I knew she really wasn't feeling well.
And so it begins...
First squishy antibiotics poop. Maybe she needs an extra yeast ball. But we'll wait on that. Don't want to rush too many things in her at once.
I don't know if you remember this. But Betty came to me as a free-feeding nibbler. Probably a leftover from her kibble-addict days. It's been a huge deal that I was able to get her onto a schedule. She's always needed at least five meals a day to get enough calories. Right now, while she's either not able or not willing to eat enough in one meal, I'm basically refreshing her plates as I see them empty. With all that fat in the A/D, she must be brewing quite the hairball. I haven't been adding the Optagest because I don't want anything to get in the way of her eating right now. We'll just have to use hairball treats for now until I can get her back to a more normal diet. It is entirely possible that the A/D is making her breath worse than usual.A lot of people do better with several small meals rather than 1 or 2 or 3 major meals every day. All of the cats in my life have grazed, coming back multiple times to eat, except for one, my roomies' cat, who snorked 2 big meals every day and became obese, sadly.
If you work at/from home, you're in a much better position to keep Betty healthier by offering the small meals. Sounds like she's doing better already!