Input On Diaignostic Testing For Tummy Troubles?

[P+P's Meom]

This is long, but I'm asking for thoughts/input/advice so I'm trying to give as much info as I can.

Pitter has having been having stomach problems - for months.
Before you think I'm a bad Meom:

I'm a stay-at-home cat meom, so P+P are truly spoiled. The only way I could give Pitter more attention is if I strapped him to my chest. He's 15#s of snuggle-kitty who loves to have his belly massaged - a left over from when he was younger and had frequent tummy aches.

OK. This all started about 3 months ago, when a dog moved into the apt against the hall from us. At the same time, Pitter got very vocal which was new for him. I figured it was about the dog - the only place he'd be vocal is at the door to the hallway. But I've only heard doggo bark 3 - 4 times - just one WOOF at a time. The human also gets home from work about 1- 2am. So I blamed it on those 2 for 1.5 months.

About 6 weeks ago:
he was still frequently climbing into my lap - or flying across the room and landing on me. Before, that's always meant "Hi! It's me, your favorite male, Rub My Tummy!" But he started to get . . . twitchy/jumpy . . . when I'd touch his tummy. He used to just melt when I rubbed his sides just below his ribs. Literally. His legs just caved. But now, we'd be in the middle of a nice, snuggly bonding session and then he'd twitch/startle and run away. Sometimes he'd try to stay, but was obviously having cramps and just had to move.

At the same time, he got to where he wasn't just being "vocal" once a day, he was yeowling at different times throughout the day and for extended periods of time.

Also around then, his poop got really nasty smelling. It didn't just smell bad, it felt like it was burning my eyes. So, very acidic.

His appetite was/is the same. He's still drinking the same. Peeing and pooping is good.
So it took me a couple of weeks to put 2 + 2 together and realize something's not right.

Went to the vet. Pitter has to be sedated before even taking him out of the carrier. He's terrified and terrifying. So vet couldn't see what/where Pitter jumps at and since that's really the only physical symptom . . . he decided that Pitter was "colicky." No worries.

I asked about an antacid and they said Pepcid AC was ok.

I've been giving him 10mg twice a day and it did help settle his tummy and get his poop smell back to normal, but he was still having cramps. So I added some simethicone too. Those two things get him 1/2 way thru the day - til time for his 2nd dose of both.

He's been on Pepcid AC for 4 wks and simethicone for 3 wks.

He no longer climbs or jumps on me for snuggles and I am forbidden from touching anything below his neck. He's gotten very wary about even coming up to me. But I've been waking up to find him pressed tight against me - very unlike him.

He's still feeling rotten and having cramps. He hates to take his tummy medicine but now he'll ask for it.

We go back to the vet next Tuesday, May 7. Obviously, it's time for some testing.
Do you have any thoughts/input/advice on what tests might be helpful in figuring this out?
Anything at all?

Thanks in Advance.

ps. i'm scared

 

[jinxybean]

It sounds like your Pitter's symptoms are stress-related to the dog sharing your apt. wall. Your boy had a stable diet and home environment before it all started, and it is a low likeliness that a non-related disease popped up the same time the dog showed up. He can probably hear the dog's other movements and whines while you can't. Stomach upset, bad digestion (leading to smelly poo), a sense of vulnerability that can make your relaxed cat distressed about tummy rubs (their vulnerable spot), yowling and increased fearful behavior all are related to living in a stressful environment.

I would suggest doing environmental changes in hopes it might relax your kitty. Try Feliway plug-ins. Put a noise machine against the dog-wall to mask some of the doggie sounds. Do you have a Petco nearby? Try Wild Alaskan Hemp Calming Oil for Cats to boost Omega 3s, which has an anti-inflammatory affect on the digestive tract and (may possibly) calm your Pitter too. This product contains krill oil and PCR oil. I am skeptical of hemp oil claims...but yet I've seen it work first-hand at soothing my alpha female when we introduced a new male kitty to the household. It easily mixes into wet food as only a few drops are needed.

 

[P+P's Meom]

Hi jynxybean! Thank you for replying!

I just realized there's a typo in my OP.
The dog is across the hall. Sorry about that.

It's possible the dog was just a visitor and that that part is a total coincidence. IDK. I haven't heard a woof for some time now. The human is strange so I can't ask her. The dog part of the story is more why it took me so long to realize something wasn't right.

Stress would explain Pitter's yeowling, but not really the extreme change in personality and definitely not the belly cramps. Patter is totally unaffected. She is the more sensitive of the 2 and I don't think she'd be unaffected by something that was bothering her brother so bad.

I am a HUGE fan of Feliway diffusers! They really helped when we had to make a series of moves in a short amount of time.

Another coincidence? We started using the diffusers per the vet just after Pitter's yeowling started. He's always been The Boss, but it got to be too much. He was keeping his sister from doing thing - also a fairly new change.
I don't think it's related.

Both of them also got a "calming collar." This has worked great and Pitter finally let's Patter do things. So I do not believe it's stress.

There's also the medication factor. Pitter's had tummy problems in the past, he knows what "tummy medicine" is. He hates it, but has also figured out that it makes him feel better. He puts up with it surprisingly well.

When we first started the Pepcid AC, I didn't have it figured out very well. So for the first week he had to put up with the dreadful taste in his mouth . . . it melts very quickly and there is no tricking these two. I can actually ask him if he wants some and he answers yes or no. And in spite of the fact that it's such an awful experience, he will also come tell me he wants some. Just his extreme willingness to take it says alot to me.

After a week, I remembered I have empty gel capsules on hand. [duh] I started putting the Pepcid AC in one of them. [Hooray! No taste.]

He's watched his sister take anti-seizure meds 3x a day for the last 3+ years and I did wonder if this was an attention-seeking thing. But when I give him a "loaded" capsule, his entire demeanor changes in 5 - 10 minutes. If I give him an empty capsule, he still gets the attention, but no medicine. His demeanor doesn't change at all and he feels worse and worse until he gets some. It's also pretty obvious when the meds wear off.

Hemp oil didn't help. They do take some calamari oil for omega3.

Can't think of anything else to add . . .

Thank you so much!

 

[jen]

My first thought would be an xray of his abdomen to look how his intestines and organs look and look for tumors. Always bloodwork also for organ function and Pancreatitis.

His main symptoms are apparent cramping and some behavior change with how he likes to be interacted with and how he sleeps right?

No vomit or diarrhea, no weight loss, no constipation, no bloody or mucousy stool?? ....those would all be obvious signs of a GI issue.

 

[white shadow]

.
Hi P+P'sMeom and welcome to the forum !

I had seen your intro post in the "New Cats" forum - thanks for the pics....and, make sure we get some more please! (I loved both his pose and expression!)

I was in disbelief as I read your account of the Vet visit.....

• "colicky." is not a diagnosis
• "I asked about an antacid and they said Pepcid AC was ok." - That is not informed, competent prescribing, by any reasonable measure....this was a Veterinary examination visit, not a water-cooler discussion!
  
• First, the dosage of PepcidAC you are giving is 4 times the maximum recommended for a cat.
• Secondly, were you actually told that it's OK to give Pepcid every day on an ongoing basis? You should have been told that, after 2-3 days, the cat will develop a tolerance for it, and so it will be of no effect......at best, you should have been told to give it every other day - and that, should Pitter require every-day antacid treatment, you will need to change drugs.

Frankly, the whole thing is just beyond bizarre.

I'd only suggest that he be seen and properly assessed by a competent cat-only Veterinarian. Here's what I recently wrote to someone else about finding a cat Vet:

When things get complicated in feline medicine, general practice Vets, for the most part, just can't 'cut the mustard', which is why I suggested a feline Vet, a cat-only doctor. If you know of/can find one of these convenient for you, have her seen by the Vet there with the most experience (often the owner of the practice).

If you're having no luck, The American Association of Feline Practitioners can help. Here's their search page - under "Practice Type", select "Feline only", and do not check the "Cat Friendly" box in the bottom bar: Find a Veterinarian and Practice | The Cat Community. Use the left search column, "Search by Location".​

Just, almost as an aside, two things: first, exactly what food(s) is he eating...and second, was there any change in that just before the foul-smelling poop appeared?

Keep us posted!
.

 

[white shadow]

.
I forgot to ask: How did the simethicone come to be given? Was it "prescribed" or was that your own independent decision?
.

 

[daftcat75]

Every cat is different and it could be that Pitter just produces too much acid. But that this is a recent development, I think there's more going on.

What is he eating? Is he eating dry food? That could cause acid issues since it's not the right food for a cat's digestion. Is 15# a healthy weight for him or is he overweight? If he's overweight, losing the weight can do a lot for his acid issues.

I would also add an ultrasound along with X-ray and blood test for pancreatitis to the diagnostics.

 

[P+P's Meom]

whew.

jen - Thank you for the input!
Yes and yes. His input and output is the same as always, with the exception of the horrible poop odor, and the odor ended within 3 days with the Pepcid AC.
The only sign of possible GI trouble is the cramping and not liking to be touched.


daftcat75 - Thank you for your input!
As his meom, I think he's purrfect. His vet said he could stand to lose a pound/pound and 1/2.

He and Patter have been eating home-made food for the last 2.5 years. The "recipe" hasn't changed. They eat 100% chicken breast with supplements added. [Alnutrin mix per instructions,
a bit of benefiber [1/4 tsp per day,]
probiotic [tiny sprinkle from a for-human capsule,]
calamari oil for omega-3 [4-5 drops per day,]
collagen hydrolysate [protein powder] [1/8 tsp per day.]

We use Dr. Elsey's "Clean Protein" kibble as a treat instead of "regular" treats cuz I figure it's at least a bit healthy instead of pure junk. It's not used as a meal. They get about 10 little pellets every once in a while - generally not every day.


white shadow - Lots of questions to consider. Thank you!

With 20/20 hind-sight, I agree with you. [except the pepcid ac dose is .25 - .5 mg per pound of cat. But yes, at 10mg I have been giving more than that.] And yes, I'm aware that I've very probably caused him to be dependent on it and will need to taper off. I do not routinely give it to him. He has to "ask."

I do feel I should defend his vet. Pitter had to be knocked out before he could be examined. The vet couldn't feel anything unusual so of course Pitter didn't react to any pressure . . . Pitter has also had "tummy problems" his entire life. But they've turned out to be constipation - twice, a belly full of gas - twice, and figuring out the there's just too much starch in commercial food and his guts just cannot deal with it. The simethicone was PRN with all of those things - only when very obviously needed and usually only 1 - 2 doses.

So with Pitter's history, "just colic" made total sense. The Pepcid AC made sense. 20/20 hindsight: Yep. I did not get [or ask for] very clear instructions. I also have to admit that I lost track of the amount of time we'd been using it.

Changing vets:
In spite of everything, I do have alot of confidence in our 2 vets. [They're at the same clinic.]

Changing really isn't possible. The clinic we go to now is where they've been seen all of their lives and the vets know them. Also a biggie: I don't drive. We did move to a larger city a year ago and I tried to find a vet here in town to make things easier. P+P and I "interviewed" them. The most highly recommended vet was horrified that I feed them actual meat and suggested I feed Friskies instead. Ummm, No. The only Feline-only vet's main advertising point is that he does laser de-clawing. I don't care how knowledgeable he is, he advocates maiming cats. No. NO. NO.

Nothing has changed in our daily routine and it's been pretty smooth sailing since we moved last year.

To anyone still reading: Thank you, thank you!
You're helping me to make a list of details to tell/ask the vet.
Also, we're seeing a different vet than what we saw last time, so we'll also get a fresh perspective. [We have 2 vets at the same clinic who both know P+P pretty well.]

 

[P+P's Meom]

ps.
Pitter also has an addiction of eating plastic - it's gone way beyond just being something he likes to do. He's never eaten anything "too big" and throws it up sooner or later. I am SO careful, but I'm not purrfect and he gets into something every once in a while.

Do you think there's any possibility it could be something like this??
But I don't know why it wouldn't be herked up by itself or with a hairball . . .

I only just now thought of that . . .

 

[white shadow]

.
I'm 'on the run', but a few quick thoughts.....
On:

"the pepcid ac dose is .25 - .5 mg per pound of cat.....And yes, I'm aware that I've very probably caused him to be dependent on it"​

Two points: One, no, it's not per pound....it's per cat per day. Here's a thorough reputable reference - and, note the side effects listed there also: Nausea and Vomiting - Famotidine Secondly, "dependency" isn't the issue, it's that Pepcid becomes useless after 2-3 days of continuous dosing - that's what I meant by "tolerance" - so, it just isn't doing what you want and expect it to do. (same happens in people and dogs!) IF it is to be effective long-term, the 'trick' is to give it every other day. Bizarre? Maybe, but that's what occurs with it (you'll see it in that ref I provided).

Thanks for the food info - I see no obvious issue in there....I don't suppose the Benefiber is doing something untoward...? There's a marvelous coverage of fiber here (a site I'm always recommending): Fiber or Prebiotics - Feline Constipation.org

You've clearly done your Vet vetting and made a solid evaluation...now I almost feel guilty for my cross-examination! I made a judgement without the fuller big picture. (as for that one advertising declaws, while I suppose nothing should surprise in 2018, it's still a jaw-dropper....my gawd!!!)

Perhaps the pica might explain or at least give a pathway for the choice of diagnostics. I've read and seen a few results of foreign object ingestion - some of this stuff doesn't/won't/can't come back up/out and can make for a serious 'mess' in the intestines. There's X-ray and ultrasound, and if an object itself can't be seen, any damage should be observable, I think. Make sure to highlight his habit when you go back.

Earlier, you described his new dramatic reaction to massages....that sounds like pain in a particular area to me. It adds more weight to a potential for a 'foreign object'.

If I think of anything else, I'll drop back.
.
[edit for formatting only]

 

[1 bruce 1]

When you say "100% chicken breast", I assume this is boneless. Does Alnutrin tell you to add organ meats? I thought they usually required that, even with the formulation to fill in nutritional gaps.

 

[She's a witch]

if the foreign object is suspected, I'd do the x-ray with contrast to increase chances of seeing one (normal x-rays and ultrasound may miss it).

I don't know if it was mentioned, but I'd also do the stool test, starting with the fecal floatation.

 

[P+P's Meom]

white shadow - oh geesh - I asked for input. How can anyone give me input without asking a ton of questions first?? You don't know me! It really is appreciated.

I went to the link you gave and right now, Pepcid just makes me want to scream! NOW, I found other sites that say the same thing. But when I first googled for info, everything I found said:

SCREAM. Thanks for giving me the correct info! I only gave him one dose Thursday. I've bookmarked the link.

The Benefiber is to help prevent constipation without needing to use Miralax to keep things moving along. They used to be on both Benefiber and Miralax, but we were able to taper off the Miralax and taper down on the Benefiber. This hasn't changed for quite some time, so I don't think it could be the problem . . . [but thinking does get me in trouble at times . . .]

I can't imagine what he could've eaten that's still stuck but not affecting his appetite or output! Hopefully, we'll find out Tuesday. SMH Him and his tummy! He's definitely getting grounded over this one.

With all of the scarier possibilities, I'm hoping he did just eat something stupid - again.


1 bruce 1 - I make their food with 100% skinless, boneless chicken breast. We use the Alnutrin that uses egg shell to supplement calcium because it's easier to digest than bone meal. Alnutrin's Nutrient Calculator doesn't say organ meat is a must. Which is good cuz P+P won't touch the stuff. I do need to find a source of vitamin A! Any thoughts?

She's a witch - Thanks for mentioning the contrast! I'll definitely bring it up. And I'll bring a fresh poop along.
. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Pitter felt really good for a bit late last night. Bouncing and running all over the place. It feels like forever since I've seen him that happy. He even came and plopped on to my lap for a few minutes! [It is so easy to make me happy!]

So of course, today was pretty crappy. He's starting to isolate himself. He's very wary when he does come up to me. I'd better not even look like I'm thinking about touching the tummy! I feel bad that there's no way I can comfort him. What kind of meom am I anyway?! [There. Got that outta my system.]

This is the darling boy when he was done bouncing. He landed on the top of the cabinet in the living room.

 

[P+P's Meom]

ps. he's yawning, not yeowling!

 

[P+P's Meom]

This is freaky.

YES, Pitter's still going to the vet on Tuesday!

Last night, I sat down and tried to make a time-line of Pitter's tummy.
First, the dog was across the hallway. That's when Pitter started the yeowling.

A week or so later, we took Patter to the vet because she was having a lot of stress seizures. I thought about mentioning Pitter, but didn't. Vet suggested Feliway diffusers, “calming chews” and pheromone collars for both of them. I figured that'd help Pittter chill out about the dog that I thought had moved across the hall. The timing was perfect cuz Id just gotten paid, so we got everything right away.

The Feliway really helped Patter. They relaxed Pitter alot too, he stopped being so damn bossy with his little sister. The chews I'm not so sure about, but it's the only think we've ever found that Patter likes every time it's offered. The collars? I didn't think they were doing much, but Patter's stress seizures were greatly reduced, Pitter was playing nice - so I didn't change anything.

The collars we got had a strong scent to them, almost over-whelming, but it didn't seem to bother P+P.

<insert info about Pitter not feeling good here>


Last night, just for kicks, I went and took Pitter's collar off.

A couple of hours later . . . <insert story of Pitter bouncing around night>

He woke me up earlier than usual today – just cuz he was lonely/bored.

He then spent the next 3+ hours bouncing on me! He head-bonked and face-rubbed me like he hadn't seen me for weeks. [well, we did go without snuggles for a long time.]

I took a huge chance and touched his sides. He didn't pull away. He liked it. He wanted more! He plopped on my lap like he does when he wants a tummy massage. *gulp* I held my breath and rubbed his tummy. He liked that too!

I searched the litter-box and the apt, looking for evidence that something "came out." Nope.

This is just beyond strange.

But it's so awesome to see him happy for once.