Inexpensive, grain free dry food?

[MustLoveCats1583]

Farmina N & D grain free neutered and grain free wild boar, both get higher marks on cat food db, than orijen. I think you were entirely missing the point. All the extra unnecessary ingredients in orijen are meant to boost protein levels and lead you to believe there is more meat in it, than there actually is. All the beans and chickpeas, significantly raise an already lower protein level of 42%. Do you know how to calculate carbs? Farmina has lower carb levels than Orijen. You subtract protein, fat, moisture and ash from 100 to get the estimated carbs. Farmina is the lowest carb food out there besides wysong epigen, but i have heard mixed reviews about them. Potato on the other hand isn't a protein. They need 1 ingredient as a binder and that is the only one they use. They don't use unecessary beans and legumes in there, which is very much ingredient splitting, having multiple legumes. Not to mention legumes contain lectin, which cause GI inflammation and phytic acid, which blocks the absorption of nutrients. Just 5 to 10mg of phytic acid reduces iron absorption by 50%. No protein boosting legumes and beans, means farminas higher 44% protein is the clear result of having more meat. And not only that, they contain dehydrated whole meats which is more nutritional than the meat meals. The wild boar has boar, dehydrated boar, chicken, dehydrated chicken, herring, dehydrated herring, dehydrated eggs, herring/salmon oil blend and dehydrated fruits and vegetables like dehydrated spinach and fruits like dehydrated pomegranate and dehydrated apple. 97% of the protein coming from animal ingredients means they have more meat in there than the ingredient splitting orijen. The 100 different ingredients orijen has puts each one at a lower percentage and therefore fillers like beans and legumes make up a lot more of the recipe, especially with acana, but orijen too. And the last and biggest issue...farmina food is non gmo and they feed their chickens appropriate non gmo diets too. Orijen is not. I wrote champion and asked them if their chickens are fed non gmo diets and the answer was no. They use a cheap corn and donut waste feed, which causes the chickens to be unhealthy and very high in omega 6. Too much omega 6 causes heart disease, mobility problems arthritis and even alzheimers. And since orijen is basically all chicken and poultry, your cat is going to have an omega 6 to 3 ratio of 20 to 1 instead of 2 or 3 to 1. All the gmo fed chicken and turkey in orijen is very unhealthy and very high in bad fats. To me and to cat food db, farmina is the clear choice. They have unique processing techniques to ensure the nutrients are long lasting. Higher meat content, lower carbs, its a win win. Really there is not too much of a difference between the two except farmina is all non gmo, gmo itself and everything is fed non gmo and that really makes it a lot healthier. But protein values and all that, really aren't all that different from each other except that orijens protein value comes from all the lectin filled GI irritating legumes.

 

[duckpond]

Its not cheap, but i feed my bunch mostly the Dr. Elseys dry food. Everyone likes it, no throwing up, and way less smell in the litter box than with some other foods. It is expensive, but seems to fill them up and they eat less, so a bag last quite a while. you can also buy the smaller 2 lb bag to try. My cats like, don't like Orijen, they Love Farmina but it does make for stinky litter boxes at my house if fed often, their new pumpkin formula does not seem to be as bad for that. Dr. Elsey's is the only one we have absolutely no problems with. Im not a fan of their wet because of the Agar-Agar.
Dr. Elsey's cleanprotein Chicken Formula Grain-Free Dry Cat Food

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi, my two cents lol, my Big Guy did eat some orijen but the litter box smell didn't work for me. I wanted to mention, I don't know if anyone else here did, if you're otherwise happy with your current food what if you added some store bought frozen raw? Big Kitty's output odor went to zero when I did that.

 

[yeva2292]

.......

I'm going to start this off by saying both Orijen and Farmina are solid, good quality dry food. I'm going to try to discuss some of the issues you raised.

All the extra unnecessary ingredients in orijen are meant to boost protein levels

The extra ingredients are not unnecessary or used to boost protein levels. Orijen made a switch from supplementing their foods with vitamins to meet nutritional requirements (like almost every other brand - including Farmina), to using whole foods for vitamin sources. Ingredients like parsnips, apples, kale, rosehip, etc (all below 0.5%) are added in for their micronutrient values. Orijen only adds zinc, copper, and choline for supplements.
I am not saying whole foods vs vitamins is better, just that the ingredients in the food serves a purpose.

All the beans and chickpeas, significantly raise an already lower protein level of 42%.

I will get to this in a moment - but the actual increase in protein % from the bean, pea, and lentil sources isn't that high.

Do you know how to calculate carbs? Farmina has lower carb levels than Orijen. You subtract protein, fat, moisture and ash from 100 to get the estimated carbs.

Arguably, the only way to find the carb amount is to ASK the company. Protein, fat, ash, moisture levels are all provided in minimums and maximums, which can lead to inaccurate calculations. So ASK both companies and please report back to us, if you so choose.

Potato on the other hand isn't a protein

No one is claiming potato is a protein - though it does have protein in it. 2 grams of protein per 100g of potato, which might be negligible. However, the issue others bring up about Farmina is that it has a high carb, high glycemic index vegetable as the third ingredient. Don't forget that Farmina says they have 30% fruit, vegetables, minerals - just how much of that is just from the potato?

They don't use unecessary beans and legumes in there, which is very much ingredient splitting, having multiple legumes.

The individual legumes are all separate foods under USDA guidelines. Would you rather the company lie to the USDA and be less transparent to customers by listing them under one ingredient?

Not to mention legumes contain lectin, which cause GI inflammation and phytic acid, which blocks the absorption of nutrients.

Potatoes have lectin. Apples have lectin. Farmina's Wild Boar recipe that you are referencing has both potatoes and apples.

No protein boosting legumes and beans, means farminas higher 44% protein is the clear result of having more meat.

Orijen has a 44% protein recipe as well. It's called "Fit and Trim".

And not only that, they contain dehydrated whole meats which is more nutritional than the meat meals.

Have you looked at Orijen's recipes? Each recipe has 1/3 of its meat source from dehydrated or dried meat. I can copy paste ingredients as well, but I won't. The website is easy to access and my post is long enough as it is.

97% of the protein coming from animal ingredients means they have more meat in there than the ingredient splitting orijen

Fantastic! Only 3 percent protein from non-animal ingredients. You know what, this interested me, so I sat down, opened Excel, opened the USDA nutrition database, and calculated the approximate amount of protein in Orijen that comes from lentils, beans, peas, etc. Going on percentages (since companies are required to list ingredients based on order of highest percent of whole, I estimated how much of each of the above. My calculations are most likely an Overestimation. Orijen uses 15% fruits and vegetables - I applied all 15% of that to the lentils, beans, peas, etc - leaving out those tiny percentages of fruits in the end which don't have significant levels of proteins.

My overestimation comes out to 6.2% of the protein calories in Orijen "Fit and Trim", 6.7% of Orijen "Tundra" (since you are referencing a wild boar recipe - Tundra has wild boar as the 2nd ingredient). That means >93% of the protein calories in Orijen are from meat sources. I am willing to post my calculations if necessary.

The 100 different ingredients orijen has puts each one at a lower percentage

That is how ingredient labels work. You can add up the % of each meat source. It will reach their listed percentage of 85% - higher, than Farmina's.

They use a cheap corn and donut waste feed, which causes the chickens to be unhealthy and very high in omega 6.

Please explain to me how Orijen has higher levels of omega 6 to omega 3 ratio than Farmina. Orijen lists on their website:
Omega-6 fatty acids (min.) 2.4 %
Omega-3 fatty acids (min.) 1 %
Farmina lists:
Omega-6 Fatty Acids* (min): 3.40%; Omega-3 Fatty Acids* (min): 0.90%;
It looks to me like Farmina has significantly higher levels of Omega 6.

And since orijen is basically all chicken and poultry, your cat is going to have an omega 6 to 3 ratio of 20 to 1 instead of 2 or 3 to 1.

So you chose to base this off your comparison of an Orijen Chicken formula to a Farmina Boar? Why not compare Orijen's Boar formula to Farmina's Boar? And your numbers are incorrect, as I posted right above this.

All the gmo fed chicken and turkey in orijen is very unhealthy and very high in bad fats.

How do you know the chickens are unhealthy? Have you been to the farms Orijen uses? Orijen is very transparent about which farms it uses - you could ask them. Their chicken is free-run, hormone and antibiotic free, preservative free, and fit for human consumption.

But protein values and all that, really aren't all that different from each other except that orijens protein value comes from all the lectin filled GI irritating legumes.

Right. Which is why Orijen uses potatoes as its third ingredient. Potatoes - a food that is one of the highest sources of lectin. Oh wait, no. That's Farmina.

 

[zoocat]

Farmina N & D grain free neutered and grain free wild boar, both get higher marks on cat food db, than orijen. I think you were entirely missing the point. All the extra unnecessary ingredients in orijen are meant to boost protein levels and lead you to believe there is more meat in it, than there actually is. All the beans and chickpeas, significantly raise an already lower protein level of 42%. Do you know how to calculate carbs? Farmina has lower carb levels than Orijen. You subtract protein, fat, moisture and ash from 100 to get the estimated carbs. Farmina is the lowest carb food out there besides wysong epigen, but i have heard mixed reviews about them.

I use the Farmina Wild Boar and really like it a lot because of all the things you mentioned—PLUS my two boys LOVE it. I feed about 50/50 dry and wet (calorie wise). I have not seen any negative reviews but you said you’d heard mixed reviews—so I was just wondering what the negative views were.

 

[zoocat]

Oops, when I posted that I hadn’t seen yeva 2292’s post which, although not a negative review of Farmina, does point out certain issues —like potato being the 3rd ingredient—that was really the only thing about it that I didn’t really like. I have tried both Orijen and Arcana before but my boys seems to like the taste of Farmina more.

 

[MeganLLB]

Earthborn Holistic Primitive Feline is pretty cheap. Mind you, they do use pea protein and potato but they list so many other animal meals, I think it is still a meat based food. I also compared the ingredients to their dog food brand which are almost identical and dogfoodadvisor.com says the dog food is a meat based food, so I am further led to believe the cat food is also meat based despite the peas and potatoes because the ingredients are just about the same. And I trust that website. They are also in the process of making a catfoodadvisor.com which I am so anxious to see.

The Earthborn is $31.99 for 14 lbs or 16.99 for 5 lbs

I feed my cats Instinct Raw Boost because my cats really like the freeze dried raw pieces and I think it's cheaper to just buy it already mixed in the bag than buying it separately and mixing it into the food I was giving them.

Here are the ingredients for the Earthborn. It lists five named meat meals, but also lists either peas or potatoes 4 times. Potatoes don't really have much protein, just the peas, but still meals have way more protein than peas, so I still think it has to be a meat based food, not a plant based food.

Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Pea Protein, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Peas, Potatoes, Dried Egg Product, Herring Meal, Salmon Meal, Ground Flaxseed, Pea Fiber, Natural Flavor, Sweet Potatoes, Whitefish Meal, Blueberry Fiber, Cranberry Fiber, Choline Chloride, Apples, Blueberries, Carrots, Spinach, Cranberries, Canola Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a Source of Vitamin E), Taurine, Dl-Methionine, L-Lysine, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Folic Acid, Biotin, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Cobalt Carbonate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Yucca Schidgera Extract, Rosemary Extract, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product.