"Ignore Bad Behaviour" strategy not working

LOEY

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Hi! Some background - me and my husband own two cats: an older boy (Hammy) who aside from being a bit of a wimp, has no real behavioural issues to speak of, and a little girl (Kaiju: about 8 months) that we picked up from the shelter last year. We were expecting the usual behavioural problems growing up - kittens will be kittens, after all - and we were ready to employ the tried and true strategy of "punish bad behaviours by ignoring them". And we tried. By god we tried. But she's just too persistent.

Many of the issues (getting into things we don't want her in, chasing the older cat, being a general nuisance for fun) we can and have happily worked around (hiding things we don't want her in, giving the older cat his own spaces to relax). But the big issue is breakfast time. We have a very strict routine that never wavers: my alarm goes off at 8AM, and I come out and feed both the cats. I have to stay and watch for a bit, because Hammy is a slow eater and often wants to save his food for later, while Kaiju is a quick eater and really wants Hammy's food. It's the same food. It's just a "grass is greener on the other side" situation, really. But every morning somewhere between 5 and 8 AM, Kaiju gets restless. She wants her breakfast. She'll bolt around the room, jump up and down on us, chew on the noisiest thing she can find (that we cannot hide or remove). We've tried having her out of the room. She wails. Constantly. I'm surprised we haven't had a noise complaint. She also tries to dig her way under the door - we have carpet, and the security deposit is almost definitely already gone.

We never give in to her crying, or trying to wake us up - we always feed her at 8AM. But still she persists. We've considered automatic feeders, but because of Hammy's slow and inconsistent eating, we can't figure out a way to do it that wouldn't end up with her getting way more than her fair share of breakfast. My husband has such busy days, and he's having to do it all on barely 4 hours of consistent sleep - we're at the end of our rope.

TL;DR - Baby cat wants breakfast RIGHT NOW, and no amount of ignorance will deter her. What do we do? :bawling2:

(I've attached a picture of the giant monster baby in question. Y'know. For science.)
 

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Azazel

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Are you also feeding a meal right before bed? I find that a good high energy play session and a big meal before bed tends to tucker them out.

Unfortunately I also find that some of this is just normal kittenhood. Even if you weren’t giving them a meal in the morning I feel like they would annoy you in some way during the night. I think it might be one of those things that have to just be put up with up to some extent until they are older adults.
 

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Hi! Welcome!!
(I've attached a picture of the giant monster baby in question. Y'know. For science.)
lol

Seriously, what a cutie!!

What if you got an auto feeder for her, and put his food inside a big plexiglass "box" with a cat door built into it with a chip reader set to open for just him?
 
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LOEY

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Are you also feeding a meal right before bed? I find that a good high energy play session and a big meal before bed tends to tucker them out.

Unfortunately I also find that some of this is just normal kittenhood. Even if you weren’t giving them a meal in the morning I feel like they would annoy you in some way during the night. I think it might be one of those things that have to just be put up with up to some extent until they are older adults.
Yes - they both get fed 3 times a day, and play on and off throughout the day, with an especially big play session before bed. She gets pretty big portions, too - being a growing baby and all.

I was afraid that might be the case. I just hope my husband can hang on that long - or at least, may be willing to try earplugs.
 
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LOEY

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Hi! Welcome!!

lol

Seriously, what a cutie!!

What if you got an auto feeder for her, and put his food inside a big plexiglass "box" with a cat door built into it with a chip reader set to open for just him?
That's a good idea! We've considered making Hammy a little feeding box just for himself to keep him and his food from being poached, but never thought about combining that with an auto feeder.

Our only concern with getting him a box with a catflap would be that he's never known a catflap in his life, is ridiculously timid, and not at all food motivated. I think it'll be difficult to train him to use it, but it's worth a shot! Thank you
 
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LOEY

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To protect the carpet, get a chair pad (the kind you use under office chairs) and cut it to fit. It's a lot easier to ignore them when there's no ripping carpet sounds ;).
Oh, that's a great idea! Thank you!

If only there were solutions that easy for the constant crying, right? 🤣
 

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I really think she is waking you up because she is hungry. (besides being annoying because that is what kittens do!) She WILL outgrow this but for right now you might have to put some dry food out at bedtime. If you are worried about them gaining weight, get a good weight management one, I get Science Diet. Kittens should be fed several times a day, as much as they want, until they turn a year old or start gaining too much weight, so that last meal of the day should be big, big enough it takes her longer to eat then Hammy. Kittens are so hyper, gaining weight should not be a problem. She's made it a habit now, so it may take a while to break her, but without being hungry she just might sleep a little longer.
 

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I agree that she might be hungry, and I wouldn’t lock out and ignore the kitten that is truly hungry, so I’d investigate the possibility. Is she leaving any leftovers on the plate with every meal? If not, she might not be getting enough food and I’d increase it, at least on her last meal.
My kittens have never consistently tried to wake me up in the morning, but there was a time (they were about yours age) when they had jumping parties at night, or one of them would just get up in the middle of the night and be active and loud. I started waking him up (but not actively) when he slept during the day when we were around (we didn’t let him sleep at all from around 6pm til bed time) and that really helped, about 2 weeks later he started sleeping through the whole night till we got up. Maybe that’s something to consider, if she sleeps less during a day, she’d sleep longer through the night?
Best of luck and enjoy her!
 

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di and bob di and bob is probably recommending dry food at night so they can do unlimited grazing at night time. I think that is reasonable, but I handle it differently. Wet food has more volume for the same calories, and is thus more filling. If the third feeding is a sizeable amount of wet food right before bed, that should take care of hunger. It *can* be more than they can finish for hours. Sure, oxidation of the food looks gross, and they don't love the taste of oxidized food, but it is actually quite safe. Its no different from my eating pizza that has been out for a few hours -- perfectly safe, a few extra hours is not the same as leaving it out long term. The fact that food oxidizes over time actually acts as a check to see if they are truly hungry -- there will be leftovers unless there is real hunger going on. So its fine to bump up the size of that final meal of moist food. Over time, you can adjust it so there is little or no waste.

Either way, we are both suggesting that you include more food right before bed to rule out actual hunger. When a cat does this, its either because of actual hunger, or to get attention. Since you have been good about ignoring the behavior, actual hunger becomes more likely, and regardless, its always good to rule it out.
 
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LOEY

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I really think she is waking you up because she is hungry. (besides being annoying because that is what kittens do!) She WILL outgrow this but for right now you might have to put some dry food out at bedtime. If you are worried about them gaining weight, get a good weight management one, I get Science Diet. Kittens should be fed several times a day, as much as they want, until they turn a year old or start gaining too much weight, so that last meal of the day should be big, big enough it takes her longer to eat then Hammy. Kittens are so hyper, gaining weight should not be a problem. She's made it a habit now, so it may take a while to break her, but without being hungry she just might sleep a little longer.
That's a good idea. We do feed her a lot, so I have been worried about the possibility of overfeeding. I'll try leaving a grazer bowl out overnight, and see if that helps. Thanks so much!
 
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LOEY

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I agree that she might be hungry, and I wouldn’t lock out and ignore the kitten that is truly hungry, so I’d investigate the possibility. Is she leaving any leftovers on the plate with every meal? If not, she might not be getting enough food and I’d increase it, at least on her last meal.
My kittens have never consistently tried to wake me up in the morning, but there was a time (they were about yours age) when they had jumping parties at night, or one of them would just get up in the middle of the night and be active and loud. I started waking him up (but not actively) when he slept during the day when we were around (we didn’t let him sleep at all from around 6pm til bed time) and that really helped, about 2 weeks later he started sleeping through the whole night till we got up. Maybe that’s something to consider, if she sleeps less during a day, she’d sleep longer through the night?
Best of luck and enjoy her!
She rarely leaves food in the bowl (unless it's to try and sneak into Hammy's before I notice and then go back to her own), but I have done some investigating on this. If I just constantly kept putting food down, she'd stay at her bowl all day and eat herself into a coma. 🤣 She's a very good eater. We may struggle with her weight later down the line, but at least that's better than not eating enough. As per di and bob and ArtNJ's suggestion, I think I'll try more food in the evening, maybe wet food too.

We do try to keep her up and about throughout the day! But it's challenging when we're not always around.

Thanks so much for the advice. We'll do our best!
 
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LOEY

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di and bob di and bob is probably recommending dry food at night so they can do unlimited grazing at night time. I think that is reasonable, but I handle it differently. Wet food has more volume for the same calories, and is thus more filling. If the third feeding is a sizeable amount of wet food right before bed, that should take care of hunger. It *can* be more than they can finish for hours. Sure, oxidation of the food looks gross, and they don't love the taste of oxidized food, but it is actually quite safe. Its no different from my eating pizza that has been out for a few hours -- perfectly safe, a few extra hours is not the same as leaving it out long term. The fact that food oxidizes over time actually acts as a check to see if they are truly hungry -- there will be leftovers unless there is real hunger going on. So its fine to bump up the size of that final meal of moist food. Over time, you can adjust it so there is little or no waste.

Either way, we are both suggesting that you include more food right before bed to rule out actual hunger. When a cat does this, its either because of actual hunger, or to get attention. Since you have been good about ignoring the behavior, actual hunger becomes more likely, and regardless, its always good to rule it out.
Ahh, that's a good idea. We do have a stash of wet food that we used to feed Hammy as a treat (he went off it, he's a periodically fussy eater), so maybe we'll try to work that into her evening meal and leave some dry food down to graze on as well. I suppose that may benefit both of them! Thank you so much. We feed her so much I never considered that she could genuinely be hungry, but it's best to be sure, you're right.
 
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LOEY

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Mack's are pretty good :)
Ah! I actually have those! I use them on and off when I don't have to worry about hearing the alarm clock 🤣 My husband wont use them, though - says his ears are too small and sensitive. Maybe a few more sleepless nights and he'll actually try them...
 

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Tell him that these aren't the typical ones that go into the ear, but rather mold to the contours of the ear. I have little mouse ears, and I love these;
 

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I have a grazer, Sqeeker, and a gobler, Yoshi, so my suggestion is for Hammys sake. I use a locking cake box for Sqeekers food, he takes a few hrs to eat 1/2 can of food, and learned quickly to come and get us when he wanted the lid off. It's been a few yrs and Yoshi hasn't been able to unlock it yet even though he has tried to pull on the latches.
Cake Box.jpg
 
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LOEY

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I have a grazer, Sqeeker, and a gobler, Yoshi, so my suggestion is for Hammys sake. I use a locking cake box for Sqeekers food, he takes a few hrs to eat 1/2 can of food, and learned quickly to come and get us when he wanted the lid off. It's been a few yrs and Yoshi hasn't been able to unlock it yet even though he has tried to pull on the latches.
Oh, that's actually genius! You're a genius! I am absolutely going to try that
 

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As far as the cake box idea, I handle this differently. You can buy those plastic lids that snap onto the cans at any pet store for like a buck. I give my two cats half a can and put the plastic lid on the can quite a bit. It prevents oxidation without refrigeration, so it is easy to give the rest of the can whenever they are ready. As for the leftover food in the bowl, I let it oxidize, and when its time for more food I mix it all together with however much new food and a tiny bit of water. The smell pops, wife won't do this because it makes the smell come out so much, and they are incredibly eager to devour all of it, oxidization forgotten.
 

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She's so beautiful!!! I don't have any better advice. . .I too think maybe she is genuinely hungry being a growing kitten and all. And those kittens are rascals!

I have a 5 month old, who doesn't beg for food, but who consistently wants vigorous petting at 4am. He walks on my chest till I do it!! haha. It's adorable, but also I'm tired!!!!
 
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