Ibd / Digestive Issues

LTS3

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I posted about Leroy's possible IBD on the Raw forum but thought I'd post here too.

I'm just looking for what others have tried to successully treat their cat's IBD. Leroy is currently on NV raw (both rabbit and chicken), liquid Pepcid, and will start B12 injections this weekend. I'm going to add probiotics back to his diet as well as a S. boulardii product. Someone mentioned digestive enzymes. What brand is a good one to try?

Raw is supposed to be great for digestive issues but Leroy has been eating raw his entire life. Can commerical raw still cause similar digestive issues as canned and dry foods? Do I need to change the diet from NV to a recipe?

How likely would a food allergy cause digestive issue and how soon would that happen? Leroy currently has a healing bald spot on his head that was caused by an allergy to the Blue Ridge chub of chicken I was feeding along with the NV (mixed with Alnutrin). The vomiting of clear liquid and gurgly stomach and lip smacking didn't start until the last few containers of Blue Ridge :think: I think I made up the Blue Ridge / Alnutrin mixture up in early December. I normally use HT but the pet store didn't have HT at the time so I bought Blue Ridge. Leroy has eaten Blue Ridge in the past with no issue at all.

Are there any non-FB IBD forums you recommend?
 

Mamanyt1953

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Just a thought - my "niece-kitty" has severe digestive issues and cannot have chicken or peas. She is now eating Stella & Chewy's Freeze-dried Raw Absolutely Rabbit Dinner. Someone in the Feline Nutrition forum recommended it - it does not have guar gum.
 
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LTS3

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Leroy is currently still eating the NV raw chicken (and rabbit) with HT rabbit / Alnutrin mixed in. No vomiting, lip smacking, etc. So I don't think it's an allergy to chicken :think: Leroy probably can't just tolerate the Blue Ridge brand anymore. But would that be enough to irritate the digestive tract to cause IBD? I'm not sure when the weight loss started. Blue Ridge was started in early Decemeber so was it then? Or earlier than that? I honestly never noticed any difference in weight.

The IBDKitties group is on FB. I refuse to join FB for reasons I will not discuss. I did find a groupon Yahoo and joined. So far there are no responses to my post. I'm not really sure how active it the group is.
 

artiemom

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The IBD group on Yahoo is not very active. In fact, I have found all the Yahoo groups not to be active or informative. They usually suggest things I have already tried.

Cannot help with the raw, but you know our story. I really do feel that IBD has a strong genetic component to it. But we are at the argument of: nature vs nurture ~ which has never been resolved. I think it is a combination of the two, or in some cases, just one...

The IBDKitties group on FB is really helpful, and very active. As you probably already are aware of, they have an IBDKitties.com website; however, no forum.

Some people on FB, have signed in with an alias, so that no one really knows your true identity; some friends of mine have done that.

As far as the time frame for food allergies causing digestive issues: I feel that is up to the individual. In my experience, sometimes it is immediate, i.e. vomiting; other times it occurs in the diarrhea/loose stools which can take a couple of days. It seems to depend on how severe the allergy is.

In my opinion, and I only have my guy to observe; the time frame for seeing any effects is usually about 6 weeks. I usually have to wait about 3 weeks to observe a positive change in health.

I would think that since Leroy has already experienced an allergic reaction to the Blue Ridge, via the sore on top of his head; then he is at the active allergic reaction stage.

It seems as if there is something in the Blue Ridge that he is allergic to. Perhaps a stronger concentration of one organ meat over the others? Or an additive, which they are not listing?

If he is already in an active allergic reaction, it will take a while for his system to calm down. Unfortunately once the allergy has come to the surface, it will be lying dormant, ready to attack at any time.

Can you try removing chicken from his diet? and only feeding him, non chicken raw? This would be an experiment to see what is happening. Then you can slowly try to re-introduce chicken-- not from Blue Ridge, to see what his tolerance level is..

I know you are probably aware of all of this, sorry if I am offending you..
these are just my observations based, on Artie and what I have read. Seriously,
the IBD FB group is really helpful, and very active.
 
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LTS3

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The Blue Ridge is just meat and bone, no organs or anything else. I've eliminated Blue Rdige from Leroy's diet. He's getting the NV, both chicken and rabbit, with HT rabbit now. So far he seems fine but maybe that's just the Pepcid working:think: The bald spot on his head is healing nicely so it was the Blue Ridge that caused it and potentially the digestive issue. I can just feed Leroy the NV rabbit and give Emma the chicken.

I'm waiting for my sample of EZComplete. If Leroy likes that, I can further eliminate ingredients from the diet. I'll have to see if the pet store owner can get me boneless HT chubs.
 

Mamanyt1953

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Sounds as if you are at least beginning to get a handle on things. Sorry about the FB thing. I didn't spot it.
 
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LTS3

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Do B12 injections make a cat sleepy? :think: Leroy had his first shot yesterday with dinner. Normally he whines for a post-dinner snack and bugs me but not yesterday. He was under the bed covers (I swear he doesn't sleep so no idea what he does) and didn't get out until I went to the kitchen to get a snack for myself. Maybe it was just a random fluke?

Leroy's digestive stuff arrived today. I'll start S. boulardii and the digestive enzymes first tomorrow morning. I'm going to give 1/2 capsule of S. boulardii twice a day. I'm still not sure of how much of the digestive enzyme to give :confused2: The recommended dose on the bottle says 1/2 teaspoon for a cup of food. Leroy eats about 1.5 oz of raw twice a day. Would I just add a sprinkle?:think:
 
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LTS3

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I'm waiting for the vet to call back....

Can S. boulardii cause an upset tummy / diarrhea? I gave Leroy about a 1/2 capsule yesterday for breakfast (no digestive enzymes given) and the other half with dinner along with a sprinkle of digestive enzymes. About an hour after dinner Leroy had the stinkiest poop ever :barfgreen::barfgreen: Before bedtime he was in the box digging like he does when he has to poop but nothing came out and he was licking under his butt when he came out. Around 11:30pm I heard Leroy in the litter box again and when I went to look, it was a horribly stinky cow patty :cringe: I had to clean Leroy up because he had a little liquid poop on him. He ate breakfast this morning fine. I did not give him any S. boulardii or digestive enzyme. He was crouching on the floor which I'm paranoid about now :paranoid: Not meatloafing, just crouching down on all fours.
 

mschauer

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Do B12 injections make a cat sleepy? :think:
Should be just the opposite. The B12 should perk him up.

Can S. boulardii cause an upset tummy / diarrhea?
I wouldn't start with both the S Boulardii and digestive enzymes at the same time. Start with 1/4 cap S Boulardii twice and day for a week then add the digestive enzymes if needed.

Given he was acting punky after the B12 injection maybe something is going on unrelated to the B12/S Boulardii/Digestive enzymes?[/QUOTE]
 

artiemom

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Hopefully you have heard from or will hear from the Vet very soon.

I agree with mschauer mschauer , I would only try one thing at a time. I adding 2 things into the mix will be a bit harsh on any IBD kitties system.

Again, I thought the B12 was to help perk him up; not to make him sleepy.. although, perhaps Leroy is just so exhausted from everything; and resting. He cannot be feeling well, at all. I know my guy, sleeps a lot when he is going through a flare.

If I remember correctly, on the IBDKitties website, it stated that S. Bouldardi can have the opposite effect in some cats, so to administer it slowly. If there is the opposite effect, the instructions are to eliminate it for a few days, then slowly introduce a tiny bit, daily.

It could also be the digestive enzymes; perhaps too strong for him.

I would just use one of these items for now. If it were me, I would go with a tiny amount of S.Boulardi, after a couple days rest. I would wait on the digestive enzymes..
Too many changes at once can make things worse..
 
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LTS3

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Vet is concerned but wants me to just keep an eye on Leroy for now. I'm going to give Leroy just the NV for a few days, no extra stuff added. Hopefully his tummy will settle :crossfingers: There were more cow patties in the litter box when I got home :sigh: And Leroy kept licking under his tail. It's not red and irritated under there but must be sore :frown: Leroy was reluctant to eat dinner but I manged to get him to eat with some toppers. And he keeps crouching. Not meatloafing, just crouching. His eyes weren't squinty but he was very focused on the floor. I think his tummy is hurting :frown: Vet will get another Leroy update tomorrow.

I must have missed the part about starting slow with S. boulardii :doh: When I restart it, I'll do a sprinkle.
 

artiemom

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When Artie is sick, feeling like a tummy ache, he will crouch the same why you are describing. I know it is a tummy ache. The only part missing from the meatloaf position is the tail curled tight against the body. Yes, the same eye look also. Leroy is just not feeling well at all.. poor baby. :hugs:

When I see that position, I know he has a tummy ache. When he is meat loafed, I know he is really sick.

Sorry about the cow patties :( I know what that is like. Yes, give his tummy some time to quiet down.. is he taking a probiotic? You could think about that before you start the digestive enzymes.~~ just my thoughts..

Actually, I am finding that it is helping Artie a bit, while he is on his junk food phase. It seems to keep things 'together' a bit. Still have the cow patties, but at least they are not diarrhea. I am currently using Proviable.

Are you still giving Leroy the pepcid? That should help. If he continues to still not have much of an appetite, you may want to ask about Cerenia, just until he begins eating on his own. It may mean he is a bit nauseous..

If I can help at all... just ask.. I swear I have a pharmacy in here, just for Artie.

:grouphug:
 
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LTS3

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Yes, Leroy gets Pepcid every morning.

I have probiotics but haven't started them yet. Leroy has had this probiotic before and didn't have an issue with it so he should be ok :crossfingers: I'm going to wait until his tummy settles before giving him that.

Leroy is normally whining for his snack now but today he's under the bed covers:frown: I'm not going to force him to eat if he doesn't want it.
 

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S boulardii is not probiotic but it's a good organism that helps re-situate the flora in the gut, helps utilize b vitamins n helps use water properly so I'd use s boulardii alone for a few days but start getting good probiotics in him...good specific strains. Look at baby probiotics, LGG and the bifidus ones like align.
Enzymes with the meal should just help his stomach break down protein n carbs etc...Florastor is an awesome s boulardii strain but does have a bit of lactose however lactose intolerant people can take it but they say not to with cat...
Zarbees is a good baby one (brand). I use some LGG from culturelle. A cats digest system is short so probiotics can get through ok. I don't get the anti-acid...sometimes they actually need it??? Have you read about ACV? Just a thought
 
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LTS3

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Not good today.... Leroy flat out refused to eat breakfast even with toppers and FortiFlora and canned food gravy :frown: He didn't even wake me up. I had to carry him to the bathroom to give Pepcid. Then he just crouched in a corner of the bathroom and stared at the corner :frown: He ate his bedtime snack of NV Raw Bites just fine along with whatever canned food Emma left in her bowl. I'm going to call and leave a message for the vet soon. I know he won't call back until at least later in the morning. Maybe he can prescribe an appetite stimulant (mirtz? Is that a liquid or pill?). I do not want to deal with fatty liver disease on top of the digestive issues :cringe::headshake:

Leroy can use some eat vibes from TCS:vibes:
 

artiemom

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Oh No!! poor Leroy and poor you!

To answer your question; Mirtazapine is in a pill form. You can get in compounded into a liquid, but it is more expensive that way. I use gel caps and a pill gun. It so much easier for both of us.

I am thinking the Vet will also prescribe Cerenia~ usually they go hand in hand. The reasoning: a cat is probably not eating because they are feeling nauseous. You really cannot give an appetite stimulant to a animal or person without calming the nausea. Cerenia is a wonder drug. It is safe to give. It kind of works almost immediately, again, in a pill form~ it is expensive, but worth it.

Sometimes, actually, most times the Pepcid AC is not enough. Personally, I give Artie 1/2 of a Pepcid AC once a day, use the Cerenia and Cyproheptadine (appetite stimulant) for flares.

Mirtz, can cause some excessive vocalization and hyperactivity.. I do not know if Leroy has had it before, but if he does become more vocal or pacing, then it is from the mirtz.
I am mentioning this because I just want you to be aware of the side effects. I am sure the Vet will prescribe a lower dose.. Hopefully it helps.

Poor baby.

And it may be time to think about starting Leroy on a steroid: Prednisolone ~~ although Vet may want to wait until after the ultrasound to do that.

It takes a bit longer than 24 hours for hepatic lipidosis in thin cat. This is not eating anything at all, so nibbling is good. I have been told that by my Vet. If a cat does not eat for 2 days, then it is time of intensive treatment. It seems that overweight cats, or chunky cats seem to go into hepatic lipidosis faster than thinner cats.
I do not quite understand why, but that is what I have been told time and again, but several vets, including the present one.

Hepatic Lipidosis is also my major fear each time Artie gets sick.

Do you have any Beechnut or Gerber baby food on hand. Sometimes that works.. and human grade tuna water.

I Need to find the Food Faries that Mamanyt1953 Mamanyt1953 uses for Artie..
 
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LTS3

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The secretary called me back. Vet isn't in until noon-ish today but he checked in with her. He would like to do an ultrasound this afternoon but there's no way I can leave work early today. Just saw an email from the supervisor saying that one co-worker will be in late today (typical) so the rest of us has to pick up her work (:censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:......). Even if I say it's a family / personal emergency, the supervisor will not let me leave early (more :censored::censored::censored:...) or I risk being written up.

The secretary is going to call me back after she talks with the vet again.

Leroy last ate at 9:30 last night and it was just some Raw Bites and licking Emma's bowl clean. Then he had diarrhea at 2:30am. I could hear the poop squiritng out :cringe: Leroy had to be cleaned up afterwards.

I'll pick up some baby food on the way home from work.

Leroy was fine up until yesterday morning before I mixed the S. boulardii into his food. Would ~1/2 capsule have been enough to irritate his digestive system?
 

artiemom

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I do not have any experience with S. Boulardi. Honestly, never tried the holistic approaches. I do know, from my readings that it is very strong. That is why I am so hesitant to try it.

I do have a bottle on hand, but will only use it, if/when Artie has a long episode of diarrhea. I am not planning on using it for cow patties.. true diarrhea, yes.

Try not to beat yourself up over giving Leroy the S. Boulardi.. honestly, this flare could have just been on the verge of beginning. You probably did not do anything wrong by given the S.B....
This is the insidious cycle of IBD: vomiting, inappetence, diarrhea... meat loafing...
until it is under control; even then, it is a crap shoot, day to day.

I honestly feel the vet is stressing the ultrasound because he wants the results of that before he begins steroid treatment.. or discusses it with you. Once you start steroids, things will be improved `~~ at least in my experience..

Oh, and work.. I hate employers!!! I really do.. they all :censored:.... :livid: :argue: :bawling2: :angrywoman:

An idea: could you possibly go in late tomorrow, drop off Leroy at the hospital, he can have his ultrasound during the day, you pick him up on your way home and speak with Vet at that time??

I did something similar with Artie; dropped him off, picked him up at night, saw Vet..

As far as the baby food: I think vet will probably say, anything, any food you can get into Leroy at this time is ok.. then you can go into your regular food.. just until the ultrasound is done.. and they do want cats fasting for that.. about 10 hours.

If I can help, let me know..Ps.. have a doctors appointment in Boston late tomorrow morning.. I can help out, or be there with you. ~~ not pushing, just offering.. IBD is so confusing, frustrating and frightening.
 
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