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Ibd? Constipated Cat. After The Enema...

1 bruce 1

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Apr 8, 2016
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Thanks, Furballsmom Furballsmom :)

@FeebysOwner - No worries, I will. I have no problem being "that person" taking up the vet's time on my senior cat. :) I tend to ask a lot of questions. Then more questions. Then I call with more questions... We're seeing a different doctor than before tomorrow, so we'll see how that goes.

No 1 bruce 1 1 bruce 1 I think you'll find my name under "worrier" in the dictionary! That is true, though, I actually reflect back and realised that last time I was worrying about her. I said, hey, you know I was really worried about this but it all ended up fine! So why did I worry? Its just what I do...so thanks for reminding me of that. and yeah sometimes I think you know she is almost 15, might as well just let her eat what she wants to eat and then she'll be a happy kitty!

I was planning for a full blood and urine tomorrow as well as a BP check. Also want them to give her teeth a good look. I guess its better timing for her to be like this than after I take her in for a checkup!
That sounds like a wellness exam to me :thumbsup:
At 15 years, she gets what she wants. It's a house rule here. Not for humans though :crazy:
 
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  • #106

sidneykitty

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Dec 25, 2015
368
299
Oregon
Well, the appt itself went well. We had a new vet today.

He did not hear her heart murmur, which is good news. Maybe it was due to her digestive troubles before.

Her tooth physically look fine. He said he'd be surprised if she had any tooth issues further up like in her gums, but it is possible.

He said he thinks she has cataracts forming in both of her eyes. This is new, but he mentioned bringing her to an opthalmologist and getting eye drops. We didn't really discuss it much, but I'll do some reading on it.

They measured her BP but didn't mention it so I assume it was normal. I forgot to ask because we spent most of the time talking digestion. I'll ask him on the phone when he calls with lab work, but I thought I saw 180 on the machine.

As far as her appetite and digestion, he thinks she could be early constipated again and sent us home with lactulose to give. We did blood and urine to check for/rule anything else out. He did mention hyperthyroid as a possibility because lately her vomiting has not been vomit, but undigested kibble.

When we got home, Amber went and ate about 1/2 can of wet food which was great, had an awesome A+ poop. I did not start the lactulose yet. I was so excited, then she went and vomited it all back up right after pooping. Now I'm not sure what to think. :(

She did the same thing last time she went to the vet. Ate food, pooped, vomited. I wonder if she gets so stressed out it just upsets her whole system. Shortly after vomiting she went back for more food. Maybe next time she goes in (which I hope is not soon), I won't let her eat for a couple of hours after and see how she does.
 

daftcat75

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Sep 7, 2018
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Is she still eating kibble? Then she's still irritating her gut. The healing can't really begin in earnest until the kibble is eliminated.

I don't agree with hyperthyroid. From what I've heard about hyperthyroid, her appetite would be ravenous. No, I think she's still vomiting because kibble is still irritating her gut. It doesn't matter that she threw up wet food. Her gut microflora is out of whack because the starchy, carby ingredients have been feeding the wrong bacteria while also making the gut the wrong pH for proper digestion. A quality probiotic (search the forums or make a post), would be a good start but it won't make quite the difference like finally eliminating kibble.
 
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  • #108

sidneykitty

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Alpha Cat
Dec 25, 2015
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Oregon
Yes, she is eating the Hill's z/d which this vet also insisted on telling me would be fine for to eat exclusively even though she gets constipated. I just don't get it why these vets seem to think wet food won't help with constipation... they seem to think hydrolyzed protein is the cure.

Typically its the kibble she's vomiting/regurgitating (except today) not the wet food, so that almost indicates to me THAT is what is not sitting well with her. Sigh. I don't know. I don't have a vet degree.

Yes, its true, and I think he also thought he was going out on a limb with the thyroid. We'll find out soon enough what her lab work says about that. The thing is her appetite was really very good up until the last week. She was licking her plates clean until then.

She is getting probiotics with her wet food.
 

1 bruce 1

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I've heard serious digestive problems can make their heart sound like they have a murmur when they don't, so that's great!
Did you see her blood work or did they mention anything else that wasn't right, or even at the high or low end of "normal"?
 

1 bruce 1

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Yes, she is eating the Hill's z/d which this vet also insisted on telling me would be fine for to eat exclusively even though she gets constipated. I just don't get it why these vets seem to think wet food won't help with constipation... they seem to think hydrolyzed protein is the cure.

Typically its the kibble she's vomiting/regurgitating (except today) not the wet food, so that almost indicates to me THAT is what is not sitting well with her. Sigh. I don't know. I don't have a vet degree.

Yes, its true, and I think he also thought he was going out on a limb with the thyroid. We'll find out soon enough what her lab work says about that. The thing is her appetite was really very good up until the last week. She was licking her plates clean until then.
I don't have a vet degree either, but we see our cats every day and know them better than even the best vet that sees them for 10 minutes a few times a year. JMO.
(Editing to make this maybe make more sense ;)
We know their quirks and personalities. If you have 4 cats and 2 of them are grazers by nature, have been since 8 weeks old, you won't panic if one of them eats a few bites and walks away.
If the other two of those cats in 10 years has never missed a meal and you put the same food down, and they sniff it and walk away, you notice.)
What wet food is she eating?
 

daftcat75

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Sep 7, 2018
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The trouble with kibble is not the protein (not entirely.) It doesn't matter whether it's hydrolyzed protein or novel protein, LID or whatever. Dry food necessarily has to be high in carbohydrates to be a shelf-stable dry food. It is the carbohydrates that are problematic and none of the vet foods, expensive kibbles, or even Dr Elsey's Clean Protein is going to fix that. Carbohydrates and plant-based protein are problematic for an obligate carnivore's digestion. It's like putting an inappropriate fuel into your car. It's only a matter of time before it wrecks the engine.
 

1 bruce 1

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Apr 8, 2016
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If the Z/D is being thrown up, it needs to go, I agree.
Now to be a complete hypocritcal dork, we're giving our IBD cat some limited ingredient dry food because it doesn't seem to mess with him and he's not eating enough canned food to keep weight on. We've both accepted that we're probably buying time for him but he's about 12 or 13 by now.
But if he was throwing it up and eating enough wet food to keep weight on, yes, it would be out of the picture.
 
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  • #114

sidneykitty

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Alpha Cat
Dec 25, 2015
368
299
Oregon
1 bruce 1 1 bruce 1 - yes, agreed. The heart murmur was something I'd been worrying about! No results back, she just had her blood drawn today. We should hear in the next 2 days.

Yes, that's true. I guess this appt was well-timed! She's been eating Fancy Feast classic beef pate and been doing well with it or so I thought. Tonight I gave her some Hound & Gatos beef but I doubt she'll finish it. We'll see.

daftcat75 daftcat75 yes when she was eating less of her kibble last week I actually thought, oh maybe she finally decided she just wants to eat wet food!! I'd slowly got her up to 3/4 of a can a day. But then she stopped eating that, too. The thing I don't get is why these vets are insisting its ok she eats the kibble.

Back when I worked for a vet, it used to drive them crazy when clients thought changing their cat's food would somehow magically heal them but then they turn around and tell me if I feed her hydrolyzed protein she'll be fine! Sorry that's an aside of a rant, but that was my experience.

Maybe once she gets back to eating normally again, I can try upping her wet food again.
 
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  • #115

sidneykitty

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Dec 25, 2015
368
299
Oregon
1 bruce 1 1 bruce 1 - that's kind of where I was at. she won't eat enough wet food right now to get all her needs, so giving her some dry was the only way to do it.

I feel like I'm back at the beginning again after she was doing so well. Right now, I just want her to eat period. And feel good enough to eat.
 

1 bruce 1

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Apr 8, 2016
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1 bruce 1 1 bruce 1 - that's kind of where I was at. she won't eat enough wet food right now to get all her needs, so giving her some dry was the only way to do it.

I feel like I'm back at the beginning again after she was doing so well. Right now, I just want her to eat period. And feel good enough to eat.
Us too :wave3:
Have you messed around with wet foods? Sometimes our boy likes pate. Sometimes he like gravies. Sometimes we mix half and half, add some warm water and let it sit a minute. Heck sometimes we do this and he acts interested and we pretend he can't have it, that it's ours and it piques his interest. Then after a minute or two we say "oh, OK" and set it down and let him eat all he wants ;)
I think daftcat75 daftcat75 is 100% right that dry food isn't a good choice. But if they're off food entirely and that's all they want, let 'em eat it. But keep offering wet foods in varying types, brands, flavors, and see what you get. And let's hope things improve :hellocomputer:
 
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  • #118

sidneykitty

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Alpha Cat
Dec 25, 2015
368
299
Oregon
We have... you can read back in the thread and read all about it if you really want to. We tried a lot of different brands and flavors. At the time, it felt like we tried everything. The short version is what seems to work best is putting crushed kibble or treats on top, or mixing some baby food on top.

Thanks for the suggestions and support! I like that your cat will eat it if you try to keep it away from him. I think Amber would do that, too. The other day I could tell she had an appetite because she kept nosing into all my food so I finally served her some old kibble which she ate. It was like she was bored with what she'd been having. Maybe her and your cat should get together and plot how to further puzzle humans about their food...
 
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  • #119

sidneykitty

TCS Member
Alpha Cat
Dec 25, 2015
368
299
Oregon
Well we have our results back and they are normal! Blood, urine were ok. Her BP was a bit high he said, but normal for being stressed at the clinic.

I spoke with the Dr extensively about my thoughts and we agreed on a plan. We're going to do a little experiment on poor Amber...

My thoughts were, since we do not know for sure she has IBD (no inflammation on U/S) and the reason I brought her in the first place was periodic/cyclical vomiting and inappetance, maybe her problem the whole time has actually been constipation not IBD.

So, the Dr said he understood this line of reasoning and we opted to try her on a fiber diet. If her symptoms worsen, we will assume this means she may have IBD and go back to the IBD plan.

I feel positive about this for now, though I am worried more fiber may not help her. But I was feeling like we'd potentially created extra problems if treating for IBD that wasn't there. The Dr agreed with that.

I know the only way we could know is doing a biopsy, but seeing as there was no inflammation on u/s I am hesitant to spend the money on it and put her under potentially unnecessary anaesthetic when the test may miss the inflamed areas of intestine and yield a false negative anyway.

So we're starting her transition to the Royal Canin fiber response today and we'll see how things go. I'm going to continue giving her wet foods as well because I truly think they help despite the Dr's insistence dry food would be fine.
 
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