IBD and possible lymphoma, my cat is crashing

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #81

Ocean Planet

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
156
Purraise
303
Location
Virginia
He won't have anything to do with that Hills Z/d food now and I don't have anything else. He steers clear of it as soon as he sees it. I'm going to ask my vet tomorrow for a can of the A/D. Maybe its a better flavor. Hopefully this is a sign he is feeling ok as he is historically super picky. Never seen a cat to hate wet food, hate treats, hate food all together! I've been at it 2 hours already... warmed it up, put forti flora on it... etc.
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
12,642
Purraise
25,128
He won't have anything to do with that Hills Z/d food now and I don't have anything else. He steers clear of it as soon as he sees it. I'm going to ask my vet tomorrow for a can of the A/D. Maybe its a better flavor. Hopefully this is a sign he is feeling ok as he is historically super picky. Never seen a cat to hate wet food, hate treats, hate food all together! I've been at it 2 hours already... warmed it up, put forti flora on it... etc.
I would be surprised if he didn’t like A/D as that’s the stuff that’s supposed to cut through all pickiness to get sick cats eating again. Good luck! If it works, it’s truly a blessing to have a cat that takes her own meds and wants to take them. 😻
 

silent meowlook

TCS Member
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
3,414
Purraise
6,407
It is fine to switch as long as the mg are the same. Wedgewood pharmacy compounds some better tasting medications.
Do you know how to just pill him? Like, with your fingers? That is how I pill cats, because sooner or later they bite into the pill and taste it. Even when it is in a capsule. I do use a capsule for the medications but then just open the mouth and toss the capsule down the throat, kind of gently pushing it in with my fingers.
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
12,642
Purraise
25,128
It is fine to switch as long as the mg are the same. Wedgewood pharmacy compounds some better tasting medications.
Do you know how to just pill him? Like, with your fingers? That is how I pill cats, because sooner or later they bite into the pill and taste it. Even when it is in a capsule. I do use a capsule for the medications but then just open the mouth and toss the capsule down the throat, kind of gently pushing it in with my fingers.
One of Betty’s capsules is dried poop from healthy donor cats. This is an FMT (fecal microbiota transplant) pill from AnimalBiome (Gut Restore Supplement.) I have seen the look of disgust and betrayal the one or two times she bit into that capsule. I think it was instructive to her. She doesn’t bite any of the capsules I drop for her. Scoops and swallows. Pushes me around looking for the next one.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #86

Ocean Planet

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
156
Purraise
303
Location
Virginia
It is fine to switch as long as the mg are the same. Wedgewood pharmacy compounds some better tasting medications.
Do you know how to just pill him? Like, with your fingers? That is how I pill cats, because sooner or later they bite into the pill and taste it. Even when it is in a capsule. I do use a capsule for the medications but then just open the mouth and toss the capsule down the throat, kind of gently pushing it in with my fingers.
OK, thanks. Shortly after that post he finally ate the ball of Z/D with the pred but not sure I can spend hours every night trying to do it this way. Going to pick up the A/D version of the food and see how he does with that.

I can't physically pill him. He is too strong and wiggles and thrashes (even in his weak state). I have no one here to give a hand either. Liquid is actually easier on this guy. The version the vet gave me is marshmellow and he did fine with that from what I could tell.

Still trying to evaluate what to do from here:

Good - he still eats and drinks pretty well. The pred has helped his appetite.

Not so good - he still goes #2 about five to six times per day. Still a mix between pudding and liquid and very gassy when he goes.
- The pred has made him lethargic. He doesn't want to play anymore. If I flick a toy around he'll perk up his ears for a bit and maybe bat at it. That's as far as it goes. He'll sniff the other cat when he is around but I have to keep the other cat from pestering him occasionally.
- The pred has made him restless. I'm not sure he is sleeping deeply. According to my cameras, he is up every hour or two pacing around.

Going to call my primary vet today to update on these things and he has a follow-up appointment with the Int. medicine doctor on Monday. See what they think when I relay these things and what she thinks on the physical check up.

Going to order some capsules and try the S. Boulardii. I don't know if there is any last resort after this if it doesn't work.

I know he doesn't feel great. Some hours he looks brighter. I guess his days are zombie-like at the moment. He lays down, goes to eat/drink, litter box and lays back down. Then repeat. I don't know if this is considered 'quality' life? They made me a transdermol version of the gabapentin that I gave him last night. Not sure how long that stays in the system but I imagine this increases the zombie-like persona.

Sigh....
 

silent meowlook

TCS Member
Staff Member
Forum Helper
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
3,414
Purraise
6,407
The Gabapentin can make them drowsy. It’s to bad you can’t get him on a limited protein source, but I understand he must eat something if he won’t eat it.
I would definitely look into anti nausea medications. Are you able to give him injections? I do worry about his hydration with all that diarrhea.
Have they sent a stool sample out to the lab? A tech does a very complete panel that checks for many different bacteria etc besides the usual parasites.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #88

Ocean Planet

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
156
Purraise
303
Location
Virginia
I never thought about anti nausea since he has been eating/drinking well and not throwing anything up. I've never given injections before. I would have to be trained.

From what they told me last time the lab on his stool sample this month only ruled out parasites and worms. They didn't say anything about measuring bacteria. I can ask on this too.
 

daftcat75

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
12,642
Purraise
25,128
I never thought about anti nausea since he has been eating/drinking well and not throwing anything up. I've never given injections before. I would have to be trained.

From what they told me last time the lab on his stool sample this month only ruled out parasites and worms. They didn't say anything about measuring bacteria. I can ask on this too.
Theres a more expensive Diarrhea PCR that can not only tell you if he has pathogenic bacteria in his stool, but also if it is actively producing the endotoxins that can cause so much grief. E. coli and clostridium are often found in cats and cause no trouble. The endotoxins, if observed, will tell you that the strain’s presence in your cat is not just normal and benign. The good news is that s boulardii is often the treatment for any pathogenic strain. It would definitely be good to know. But you can also begin the treatment right away.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #90

Ocean Planet

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
156
Purraise
303
Location
Virginia
OK, Jarrows and capsules are on the way. I paid for fastest delivery and it says Monday :( hope that isn't too late... sometimes you get things sooner. We'll see.
 

McFIy85

TCS Member
Kitten
Joined
Jan 26, 2023
Messages
1
Purraise
3
We are dealing with an awfully similar situation right now. My cat also has suspected IBD/lymphoma. He got really sick 2 years ago, they found a thickened colon so we did surgery to get the best biopsy possible. And the results were neither IBD or lymphoma..wth? 1.5 years ago by and he gets very sick again. Vet thinks original biopsy may have missed it because it was too early and treats it as IBD. He recovers from his acute sickness again but his energy levels and interest in affection don't return to normal. He's loafing in random spots looking unhappy a lot. Some weeks are ok, some weeks are worse. We got referred to an internist who wanted another biopsy so we went for some GI scopes on Wed the 17th. Initially like yours he recovered pretty well. Then the last couple days he's gone way down. Very little energy at all. Fortunately he's still eating. Still waiting on the biopsy results. I wonder if I'm dealing with what you described the vet mentioned seeing a week after where the biopsy causes additional inflammation.
 

Peaceandcats

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Jan 21, 2023
Messages
38
Purraise
60
I am sorry your baby is still struggling, but very glad he is eating and drinking. I think these are the two most important things and contributors to "quality of life", as you mentioned.

Has he been hiding at all or just hanging out with you? If he is not hiding, that is a great sign.

Your vets ruled out possible perforation, right? This liquid poo is deeply concerning, as I am sure we all agree, and they don't seem to have given you a satisfactory answer for it. I agree with Silent Meowlook that concern about hydration would be an issue at this point. This is something you can do at home (I currently do it). It is not easy at first (at least I didn't think so), but it may be necessary. I would call and inquire about this.

Thank you for keeping us in the loop....I am very glad your little one is hanging in there, eating and drinking. Those are wonderful signs!
 

Peaceandcats

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Jan 21, 2023
Messages
38
Purraise
60
We are dealing with an awfully similar situation right now. My cat also has suspected IBD/lymphoma. He got really sick 2 years ago, they found a thickened colon so we did surgery to get the best biopsy possible. And the results were neither IBD or lymphoma..wth? 1.5 years ago by and he gets very sick again. Vet thinks original biopsy may have missed it because it was too early and treats it as IBD. He recovers from his acute sickness again but his energy levels and interest in affection don't return to normal. He's loafing in random spots looking unhappy a lot. Some weeks are ok, some weeks are worse. We got referred to an internist who wanted another biopsy so we went for some GI scopes on Wed the 17th. Initially like yours he recovered pretty well. Then the last couple days he's gone way down. Very little energy at all. Fortunately he's still eating. Still waiting on the biopsy results. I wonder if I'm dealing with what you described the vet mentioned seeing a week after where the biopsy causes additional inflammation.
I am so sorry your baby is struggling, too. Hopefully, this thread will give you some answers, too. It looks like we are all learning together. I had no idea that this procedure could cause these issues.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #95

Ocean Planet

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
156
Purraise
303
Location
Virginia
We are dealing with an awfully similar situation right now. My cat also has suspected IBD/lymphoma. He got really sick 2 years ago, they found a thickened colon so we did surgery to get the best biopsy possible. And the results were neither IBD or lymphoma..wth? 1.5 years ago by and he gets very sick again. Vet thinks original biopsy may have missed it because it was too early and treats it as IBD. He recovers from his acute sickness again but his energy levels and interest in affection don't return to normal. He's loafing in random spots looking unhappy a lot. Some weeks are ok, some weeks are worse. We got referred to an internist who wanted another biopsy so we went for some GI scopes on Wed the 17th. Initially like yours he recovered pretty well. Then the last couple days he's gone way down. Very little energy at all. Fortunately he's still eating. Still waiting on the biopsy results. I wonder if I'm dealing with what you described the vet mentioned seeing a week after where the biopsy causes additional inflammation.
Oh wow. Yeah, sounds like we have the same case at the same time. I'll send you a private message real quick.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #96

Ocean Planet

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
156
Purraise
303
Location
Virginia
I am sorry your baby is still struggling, but very glad he is eating and drinking. I think these are the two most important things and contributors to "quality of life", as you mentioned.

Has he been hiding at all or just hanging out with you? If he is not hiding, that is a great sign.

Your vets ruled out possible perforation, right? This liquid poo is deeply concerning, as I am sure we all agree, and they don't seem to have given you a satisfactory answer for it. I agree with Silent Meowlook that concern about hydration would be an issue at this point. This is something you can do at home (I currently do it). It is not easy at first (at least I didn't think so), but it may be necessary. I would call and inquire about this.

Thank you for keeping us in the loop....I am very glad your little one is hanging in there, eating and drinking. Those are wonderful signs!

Thanks! What do you mean about doing something at home for hydration? Or did I read that wrong? He does go drink on his own at times.

Nothing ever brought up about perforation, I've never heard of that.

When I got home he went 3 times in 30 minutes. All were very small plops. I watched him and some came out slow, like pudding drops. So it's interesting to me for as much as he has been eating, he is only going in small plops. Like the size of a half dollar. Hopefully his body is retaining his food now if that is a thing? I don't know. Just guessing.

Between this and my stressful day job, it's starting to wreck havoc on my health. Mentally taxing. No sleep. Hoping things work out, hoping he takes his pills. I may need to break down and find someone to pay to come help me pill him if he starts dodging the food treats. (the prednisone, a capsule of probiotic and hopefully not a chemo pill). I regret getting that procedure, but it's been over two weeks. I'd think whatever snips they took would be healed... I don't know. Maybe not. Then I'm reading articles about switching foods and mulitple vets tell me not to switch foods because that will upset their stomachs more. So everything I read and ask about, they disagree..... sigh.... freakin nightmare right now. Sorry for the vent there :(
 

Peaceandcats

TCS Member
Young Cat
Joined
Jan 21, 2023
Messages
38
Purraise
60
By fluids at home, I just mean "sub-q" (under the skin, not in a vein). This has to be prescribed by a vet, though - sometimes it is just lactaid ringers solution like humans get in the hospital, but sometimes it has extra electrolytes, etc. It is very cheap - about $ 10.00 per bag, with multiple treatments per bag. I know you are not concerned with that, just thought I would mention it. I don't even know that your boy needs it - I just know that diarrhea is dehydrating, but you said he is drinking. It only takes about two minutes once you get into a routine:


As for pilling him, this may not be applicable to your boy since he is frail right now, but my cats get several pills per day for various things and I wrap a tiny piece of pill pocket (not the whole thing, they are quite large) and literally just pop it into their mouth (in the center, not on the side or the will cheek it like a hamster and spit it out when you walk away. Then you will find it later). I pill all of my cats this way. None of them have ever taken it any other way. They are simply too darn smart for their own good!

The perforation was just a thought. I don't think your boy would be eating and drinking if that was the case, though.

Gastrointestinal perforation associated with endoscopy in cats and dogs - PubMed

So he is pooping pudding drops now, regularly? Not pure liquid? I think this is fantastic news!
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #100

Ocean Planet

TCS Member
Thread starter
Adult Cat
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
156
Purraise
303
Location
Virginia
By fluids at home, I just mean "sub-q" (under the skin, not in a vein). This has to be prescribed by a vet, though - sometimes it is just lactaid ringers solution like humans get in the hospital, but sometimes it has extra electrolytes, etc. It is very cheap - about $ 10.00 per bag, with multiple treatments per bag. I know you are not concerned with that, just thought I would mention it. I don't even know that your boy needs it - I just know that diarrhea is dehydrating, but you said he is drinking. It only takes about two minutes once you get into a routine:
Oh, I follow you now. I haven't thought about this since he has been drinking. I'll see when the doctor evaluates him next week.

I did mention I might try pill pockets to get meds down but the doctors told me to be careful as they could upset his stomach too. I mean.... I don't know anymore. I'm also sort of afraid of tossing it down their throat and them choking on it if I do it wrong. :(

I searched for an hour on risks for biopsies on an endoscopy and the worst thing I could find was either problems with anesthesia or they found an object too large to remove. Nothing anywhere about complications afterwords.

But yeah, he still comes to me. He is hesitant if i have something in my hands or whatnot. He just sat on me a few moments ago purring and getting chin scratches. We're trying.
 
Top