IBD and possible lymphoma, my cat is crashing

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Ocean Planet

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daftcat75 daftcat75 I do have Visbiome probiotics that i try to sprinkle on their food. Any thought if that is comparable? Everyone speaks highly of it being one of the top brands. I'm just not sure they get enough to make a difference sprinkled over food. But the capsule is HUGE. There is no way he can physically eat one.
 

daftcat75

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daftcat75 daftcat75 I do have Visbiome probiotics that i try to sprinkle on their food. Any thought if that is comparable? Everyone speaks highly of it being one of the top brands. I'm just not sure they get enough to make a difference sprinkled over food. But the capsule is HUGE. There is no way he can physically eat one.
Visbiome doesn’t have SB and it doesn’t have MOS. These two are powerhouses against diarrhea and bowel disease. It’s probably not helping. It’s like trying to seed a garden that’s been overrun by weeds. You have to weed first or they’ll remain the more dominant competition for resources. You weed your cat’s gut garden with SB and MOS. Think of them like scrubbing bubbles for the gut. They mimic gut lining cells which is what these pathogens feed on. Then they’re sequestered in this decoy gut (SB/MOS) and pooped on out. Along the way, there are other properties of the SB/MOS combination that, for lack of a better analogy, give the gut a therapeutic massage as it’s passing through. It cleans and it promotes good health. When he’s eating better and pooping better, there’s a Gut Restore Supplement from AnimalBiome that is head and shoulders above any probiotic on the market. But it’s probably too much for him right now. Order a bottle of Jarrow (or pick it up at a Whole Foods or other vitamin shop), and aim for 1/4 capsule twice a day. Or more frequently if you can get it in him easy enough (either in food or a re-packed capsule that he can eat with food.) You can under-do it. But it’s really hard to overdo it. More frequent administration could help bring him to solid poops faster. When I was getting Krista through clostridium, she was eating 1/4 capsule 4 or 6 times a day. She loved the taste. I would simply mix up a couple of yeast balls with food and let her eat those. Then she could have the rest of her meal unadulterated.
 
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Ocean Planet

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OK, thanks for the clarification. I'll order some and give it a shot. Maybe roll some up in some Z/d food to get more of a punch, if possible.

It's been almost 24 hours since he has been home. There has been some positive aspects.

- he's been sleeping a lot curled up in soft places, not bread loafing in random weird areas with a grimacing face
- he's been eating and drinking without stimulants
- he has groomed himself at times.

The still working on part:

- he walks around slowly and out of it. I think he is still exhausted from the hospital stays and his legs are probably sore from the IVs. I know time will help this and lots of sleep
- his stool is still liquid. but he hasn't gone to the box 25 times within a few hours. He went 3 times Monday night about 7pm and then didn't go again until 5am Tuesday (just one attempt!).

Trying to stay upbeat. There are some positive things today. I'm constantly sick to my stomach worrying something will happen. I hate it. Can't just turn it off. I think most people here know the feeling...
 

silent meowlook

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Probiotics are always good. With lymphoma they can spike a transient fever from the inflammation.
Their white blood count can also be elevated. Did they give you anything for nausea? Like Cerenia or odansetron? Both of those can help. I think you are right not to hospitalize again.

Not wanting to do the chemo pill is something that while I don’t agree, I am not a veterinarian and she is a specialist right? So I’ll shut up about that.

Forte Flora is a probiotic that has a flavor enhancer that most cats will be attracted to. I use it on Cheetah’s food when she won’t eat.

There are always going to be different opinions on what you should do. The bottom line is that you will wind up doing whatever it is that works for your cat. Educate yourself by reading what is posted in vet literature. I can post links if you like. But, you will work out what works best for your cat.

For me, I know there are better probiotics out there, but Cheetah won’t eat them. Pulling her is obnoxious and I am not going to do it, so I give her the Forte Flora.

Canned Royal Canin Venison seems to be what she will eat. I know she wants other things but vomits if she eats them.

She gets dehydrated and I know she needs fluids, but she panicked when she sees me hang up the fluid bag. So, she doesn’t get them as often as she should.

I should have done biopsy’s when this started but she wouldn’t survive anesthesia. An ultrasound was done and I treated based off that.

I should have repeated bloodwork last month but she stresses and is losing weight, so I am not going to do that this month.

I am writing all this about my cat, just to show that each cat is an individual and there is no one size fits all. You will do whatever it is you need to do to help your own cat. I know you will
 
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Thanks S silent meowlook . I do appreciate the perspectives from other owners on what they are going through with their kitties. Totally agree that each animal responds differently; what worked for one, makes another worse. I appreciate your story on what you do, and don't do for yours based on her stress level.

Good question about the nausea medication. Nobody prescribed any because (knocking on wood) he hasn't thrown up through all of this. However, I should probably get some to have on hand.
 

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Pred at the higher doses (5 mg and up) can cause lethargy in cats. That slow mope, out-of-it look could be the pred. If he's also on gabapentin, that will certainly knock him over. I believe the liquid gabapentin I have but never used because Betty will take her own capsules is 50 mg/ml. From my trial and error with her, 50 is still too much and turns her into a bag of jello. 25 is the sweet spot where she finishes her portions (suspected dental pain) but isn't knocked over.
 
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Pred at the higher doses (5 mg and up) can cause lethargy in cats. That slow mope, out-of-it look could be the pred. If he's also on gabapentin, that will certainly knock him over. I believe the liquid gabapentin I have but never used because Betty will take her own capsules is 50 mg/ml. From my trial and error with her, 50 is still too much and turns her into a bag of jello. 25 is the sweet spot where she finishes her portions (suspected dental pain) but isn't knocked over.
OK, that makes sense. Probably what it is. I remember with the pred that if you get things stable you try to back the dose down to something lower to manage it. I didn't give the gabapentin yet since he was sleeping soundly and eating/drinking so far. I planned to wait for gabapentin only if he looks to be in discomfort.

Having a tough time this afternoon. I miss how my friend used to be...
 

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I'm so sorry your going through this, IBD/Lymphoma can be such a battle. Some cats respond well to medication/supplements/food change, and sometimes they don't. I know all too well about those sleepless nights, constant worrying, and checking on them all the time.
Sending you hugs and prayers that your fur baby gets better. ❤
 
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Ocean Planet

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I'm so sorry your going through this, IBD/Lymphoma can be such a battle. Some cats respond well to medication/supplements/food change, and sometimes they don't. I know all too well about those sleepless nights, constant worrying, and checking on them all the time.
Sending you hugs and prayers that your fur baby gets better. ❤
Thanks, that's exactly it of what I'm going through. It's tough on a person.

He is still eating and drinking good. Finally went to the bathroom after 13 hours. I don't know if I'd say it was 100% liquid like it has been but almost maybe pudding this time. The lethargy is hard to watch too. :(
 

Peaceandcats

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Thanks, that's exactly it of what I'm going through. It's tough on a person.

He is still eating and drinking good. Finally went to the bathroom after 13 hours. I don't know if I'd say it was 100% liquid like it has been but almost maybe pudding this time. The lethargy is hard to watch too. :(
This is excellent news. He is eating, drinking, and now his poo is no longer pure liquid. I don't want to give false hope in case anything happens, but it sounds like your little boy is getting better.
 

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Pudding is progress. Still going to recommend the s. boulardii. Even if I’m wrong about the gut bugs theory, it’s still going to be helpful for ongoing treatment of IBD/lymphoma.

As for the chemo, you don’t have to give it right away. Give the pred a chance. Discuss with the specialist how long a chance though. Don’t simply pred and pray. Decide when you need to bring in bigger guns and that’s not more pred. In the meantime, pred will give him the munchies. Use that to your favor to explore different foods.
 
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Pudding is progress. Still going to recommend the s. boulardii. Even if I’m wrong about the gut bugs theory, it’s still going to be helpful for ongoing treatment of IBD/lymphoma.

As for the chemo, you don’t have to give it right away. Give the pred a chance. Discuss with the specialist how long a chance though. Don’t simply pred and pray. Decide when you need to bring in bigger guns and that’s not more pred. In the meantime, pred will give him the munchies. Use that to your favor to explore different foods.
I spoke too soon. He went in the middle of the night and it was still liquid. Quick question daftcat75 daftcat75 , I was looking on Amazon at the S Boulardii.... so the best version is the human version you linked? They also have a cat version by a Dr Forumula?

He has another checkup with the ER doctor this coming Monday so I'll ask about the chemo pill again. My primary vet is not in until tomorrow but I'll ask for call with her to update and ask about it too. I think waiting a week or so is OK to get the pred going consistently in the beginning, but I agree with "how long do you stick with just that". It's good to give him some home time as well to quiet down from the hospital stays.

Watching him on camera from work and he is now bread-loafing instead of curling up to sleep for long periods of time. I hate that as to me that signals discomfort. My other late IBD cat did that a lot too. (sigh....)
 

daftcat75

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Use the Jarrow version. I don’t know the cat one. But as far as I know, only the Jarrow version has MOS which works synergistically with the SB.

Also pick up some of these in case he doesn’t like the flavor. You can pack one of these and stuff it in his food or maybe you can get him to eat the capsule off the carpet with a little Z/D like the video I have posted before.

XPRS Nutra Size 4 Empty Capsules - 100 Count Small Clear Empty Gelatin Capsules - Capsules Express Empty Pill Capsules - DIY Capsule Filling - Bovine Pill Capsules Empty Gel Caps https://a.co/d/3Bn1Bw5
 
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Yes, good call on the smaller pill capsules. Before long, I'm going to be stocked like a vet's office! ha
 

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Yes, good call on the smaller pill capsules. Before long, I'm going to be stocked like a vet's office! ha
I also get size fives (even smaller) for repacking pills. Betty takes everything by capsule because she will take it on her own. Willingly. Eagerly. She doesn’t always eat at those medicine meals. I can usually get her to eat a few bites off the carpet just so she has some padding for the meds. But when those meds kick in, she’s good to return and finish her plate. Once a week, Sunday mornings, I cut up Betty’s ondansetron and pred and pack them into orange (ondansetron) and purple (pred) capsules. This makes meds time 5am-proof when she gets her morning meds. 😹 I also use a size 4 capsule filling machine (Etsy seller MYHERBAR), to split four 100 mg capsules into sixteen doses for the week. Once a month, I turn twelve of those HUGE Jarrow capsules into 50 cat sized capsules. My weekly meds take about 30 to 45 minutes depending on how long I spend trying to get those gabapentin lines even before I push them into the capsules. The monthly SB takes about 20 to 30 minutes.

I studied biochemistry in college and left for a different profession when I graduated. I thought I enjoyed learning it more than doing it. But here I am. I’m my cat’s chemist every week. 🤦🏼‍♂️😹😻
 

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I have made a crude capsule filling machine out of an upside down egg carton. Poke a hole just large enough to get a half capsule firm but flush with the surface. Then pour your powder over and push it into the capsule. It helps if you get a filling spatula to pack it tighter. But you can roll up a corner of an index card tight enough to make your own pack tool. Use the other corner of the index card as a powder pushing tool. You can do this a few times before you pull the trigger on a capsule filling machine. ($30)
 
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Ocean Planet

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I also get size fives (even smaller) for repacking pills. Betty takes everything by capsule because she will take it on her own. Willingly. Eagerly. She doesn’t always eat at those medicine meals. I can usually get her to eat a few bites off the carpet just so she has some padding for the meds. But when those meds kick in, she’s good to return and finish her plate. Once a week, Sunday mornings, I cut up Betty’s ondansetron and pred and pack them into orange (ondansetron) and purple (pred) capsules. This makes meds time 5am-proof when she gets her morning meds. 😹 I also use a size 4 capsule filling machine (Etsy seller MYHERBAR), to split four 100 mg capsules into sixteen doses for the week. Once a month, I turn twelve of those HUGE Jarrow capsules into 50 cat sized capsules. My weekly meds take about 30 to 45 minutes depending on how long I spend trying to get those gabapentin lines even before I push them into the capsules. The monthly SB takes about 20 to 30 minutes.

I studied biochemistry in college and left for a different profession when I graduated. I thought I enjoyed learning it more than doing it. But here I am. I’m my cat’s chemist every week. 🤦🏼‍♂️😹😻
Awesome, thanks for the explanations. Your dedication is amazing!
 
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Well, the hiding pill in food thing only worked two days. Figured that would happen. Gonna have to syringe the prednisolone from now on. Does it hurt to switch back and forth from pill to liquid?
 

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Well, the hiding pill in food thing only worked two days. Figured that would happen. Gonna have to syringe the prednisolone from now on. Does it hurt to switch back and forth from pill to liquid?
Can you hide the pill in a capsule and try this: dip the capsule in food and drop that morsel on the carpet for him. He doesn't get his meal until he successfully scoops and swallows that capsule. I suspect he's finding the pill in the food, and because it is on a plate, it offers no resistance to what I call the lick and flick: lick the food off it, flick the pill. He won't be able to lick and flick on a carpet. And if you put the pill in a capsule, he never has to taste it. He will learn to scoop and swallow because you'll keep trying it with him before giving him his meal.

Basically a variation of this:
 
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