I Think I Might be Chocolate-Blind

[The Goodbye Bird]

I'm having a hard time telling chocolate tabbies from regular tabbies that are warm in colour. Someone recently posted this picture of a pile of tabby cats that are all genetically the same colour: Regular (black) tabby.

Cat A is a warm tabby and Cat B has the least warmth of the group. I have no problem identifying that Cat B is not chocolate.

However, this is a chocolate cat.

And so is this.

On classic tabbies I have no problem telling if a cat is chocolate.

I am just not seeing a whole lot of difference in these non-classic tabbies from the warm regular tabby above. They're... slightly lighter... I guess?

And now my wife is making fun of me again because this is a part of her thing where she says I'm colourblind. (I have had the test. I am not any kind of colourblind.)

I have no idea whether they're really very obviously different colours or if she's just trying to make me think I can't see.

What I honestly think is that both regular (black) tabby and chocolate tabby have a warmth range and on these two colours, those ranges overlap.

 

[Furballsmom]

I'm with you lol

 

[lutece]

Don't look at the background color or the overall "warmth" of the cat's appearance. The background color is not relevant. Look at the darkest parts of the cat: the tail tip, and the darkest stripes or spots. You can see that the circled cats have black markings, therefore they are black-based tabbies. Chocolate (or dilute) cats cannot have black anywhere on the cat.

The middle cat you posted appears to be chocolate. I don't see any black markings on that cat. The darkest stripes are chocolate.

The last cat does not appear to be chocolate. I would question the person who told you it is chocolate. If the tail tip is black, or there is any black on the cat anywhere, it's a black-based tabby.

 

[The Goodbye Bird]

The last cat does not appear to be chocolate.

She does in certain lights. Sometimes the stripes look chocolate; sometimes I would bet money that this is a black cat.

A little background on my supposed colourblindness is that I am a male with a verified red-green colourblind mother. Genetically it's supposed to be impossible for me NOT to be colourblind.

However, I repeatedly test as not red-green or any other kind of colourblind. No matter how many times my mother has the test she comes back as colourblind. And she comes back as genetically my parent (she's not a chimera who's throwing non-colourblind offspring from her non-colourblind half while her eyeballs formed from her colourblind half).

This means that my X-chromosome underwent some sort of crossing-over that actually fixed the defect. Now whether it fixed it so I can discern every colour a normal person can discern is not in question. I can. What's in question is whether I see colours exactly the same as everyone else and I may not. I say things are purple that others perceive as straight blue, for example.

This should not affect my ability to see chocolate versus black, however.

 

[lutece]

I don't think the discussion of your vision is relevant... Regardless of your vision, you should be able to tell the difference between black and brown. As a breeder, you'll be looking at your cats and kittens in person, not in photos.

If the cat has a black tail tip or black anywhere else on the cat, it's a black based tabby. In the picture of the pregnant cat that you posted in your first post, the tail tip appears black. She could be chocolate if the photograph isn't accurate and her darkest markings are actually brown, but she appears to be a black based tabby in that photo.

 

[The Goodbye Bird]

She could be chocolate if the photograph isn't accurate and her darkest markings are actually brown, but she appears to be a black based tabby in that photo.

Well thank god if it's the photo that's slightly off and not me. I spent 45 minutes looking at that picture trying to make myself see any hint of that signature, rich, chocolate brown. Couldn't.

Anyway the cat is pregnant by a chocolate male, so.

 

[lutece]

Chocolate by itself doesn't give you an overall warmer / richer appearance, it just changes the color of the darkest stripes. You can have a cold looking or washed-out looking chocolate tabby, or a warm looking black-based tabby. Ruddy Abys are a great example of warm rich color on a black-based tabby. The Orientals that I've seen tend towards colder colors.

Try looking at pictures of Ocicats for some examples of black-based, chocolate-based and cinnamon-based tabbies... I think it's easier to find pictures of Ocicats in those colors than Orientals.

 

[The Goodbye Bird]

Chocolate by itself doesn't give you an overall warmer / richer appearance, it just changes the color of the darkest stripes. You can have a cold looking or washed-out looking chocolate tabby, or a warm looking black-based tabby.

One of the things I've seen in random cats that I think is cool is that you can have a very warm tabby... that is blue/silver. So the stripes will be dark steel grey and the background will be dilute from the blue, but this warm tannish colour. Not a calico that is grey and tan, but a full blue cat that happens to have a warmer tabby background.

 

[lutece]

Blue Abys are also a good example of a blue tabby with a warm background color. The same polygenes that cause ruddy and red Abys to have warm colors also work in the blue and fawn Abys.

Not sure what you mean by "blue/silver" though. Silver cats don't have a warm background color, because the inhibitor gene washes it out.

 

[The Goodbye Bird]

Not sure what you mean by "blue/silver" though. Silver cats don't have a warm background color, because the inhibitor gene washes it out.

I've seen some cats that appear to be silver and have this effect. That's not saying they are silver. My cat-colour sense will probably get a lot better when I'm looking at mostly real cats and not photographs.

Chocolate does seem to have a range though, some being almost as light but not quite as warm as cinnamons, and some being spectacularly dark.

I was doing a little experiment and I opened that first picture of the cat pile in paint and used the Pick Colour tool on the warm tabby's eyeliner, then the cooler tabby's eyeliner. I realise it just hits one pixel so I did it a couple times. This is roughly what I came up with every time.

 

[lutece]

I've seen some cats that appear to be silver and have this effect. That's not saying they are silver.

Silver cats have a white (or nearly white) background, so I'm not sure what you mean... it's the opposite of a warm background color. You might be confusing silver tabby with blue tabby, though?

 

[The Goodbye Bird]

Silver cats have a white (or nearly white) background, so I'm not sure what you mean... it's the opposite of a warm background color. You might be confusing silver tabby with blue tabby, though?

Silvers also have very, very dark stripes when tabby, and I've seen these darker stripes over light cream and assumed it was this effect on silver.

Now this one just has cream on the paws but this is sort of what I'm talking about.

This one honestly makes me want to do what this person is doing and make an OSH in this colour.

https://www.facebook.com/novorianyRosettedTabby/?ref=py_cBut

 

[lutece]

Silvers also have very, very dark stripes when tabby, and I've seen these darker stripes over light cream and assumed it was this effect on silver.

Stripes or spots on a silver tabby are the same color as they would be if the cat was non-silver. The stripes might seem extra dark to you because of the high contrast against the white background. You also might be looking at edited photos with increased contrast. Silver tabbies can come in any color, so you can have blue silver cats with blue stripes, etc.

 

[The Goodbye Bird]

Stripes or spots on a silver tabby are the same color as they would be if the cat was non-silver.

I've gotten the definite impression that the stripes are washed slightly toward grey, and since the stripes are basically black anyway it doesn't make much difference.

This is a supposedly silver chocolate. I wish the hair was shorter so I could see better what the silver does to chocolate.

If I can make as OSH like this in a classic tabby, though, you would have to pry it from my cold, dead hands. (Actually this cat may very well be a classic tabby, but it's too fluffy for me to say for sure.)

 

[The Goodbye Bird]

The Orientals that I've seen tend towards colder colors.

Holy carp you're right! I think it affects the chocolates and would swear this cat wasn't chocolate either.

cat colours

But this is their example for a silver chocolate Oriental.

Gorgeous cat but too floofy for my tastes.

 

[lutece]

That one looks chocolate, I don't see any black stripes on that cat... the darkest stripes are brown.

 

[The Goodbye Bird]

That one looks chocolate, I don't see any black stripes on that cat... the darkest stripes are brown.

I might really be blind then. The big fat leg bars do look brown to me, but just barely so.

 

[lutece]

If you want a warm color, you might look into cinnamon?

 

[The Goodbye Bird]

If you want a warm color, you might look into cinnamon?

I like the dark chocolate, I like cinnamon. I like both. I even think the chocolate silver example is one of the most beautiful cats I've ever seen. I'm just having trouble telling tabby cats that are chocolate.

You might be right that this will not be a problem in person. The first chocolate cat I saw and fell in love with was in person. In photos they look not just a bit cooler, but not as rich.

 

[The Goodbye Bird]

So she popped and unfortunately, only one was not colourpoint, even though each kitten had a 50% chance to be non-colourpoint.

The one that was not colourpoint is definitely chocolate.

The others are on top of the brown one, but its obviously brown self is sitting on an obviously black blanket stripe.