I need help with problems with my kitty's Breeder

[ziggysmommy]

 
Papers are NEEDED to Show, Sell, Breed, Offspring.     Aside from that, wanted is fine, but, not "needed".

If you take her to court, you'll need written proof and/or direct witnesses that were there at the time the exchange took place.  Without written proof, they with the most witnesses wins.  (so make sure she has none, or can find none).

IE: Make sure she doesn't have other buyers from the past that pay less for cat's without papers, or pay more for cats with papers.  Lots of breeders have "regulars" that buy cats every year or so.

And foresee the outcome.  She may just not be able to provide paperwork. There's is a CHANCE that the reason she's not accommodating you is because your kitten isn't what she said it was.

If so, RETURN for REFUND may be a judge's way of setting all this straight.

I just wouldn't want to take that chance.

My husband was there and he watched me in Cambria CA take the money out of the bank, cash, before going on down to Morro Bay. He sat right next to me during ALL of the transaction. Everything. 

 

[ziggysmommy]

You're 100% right. Unfortunately the backyard breeders make the good ones look bad too and it's not fair. There are many excellent, ethical breeders out there. The bad ones are too easy to find it seems.

And there should be someplace to report this kind of thing- in order to help other unbeknownst unaware buyers to be careful. 

 

[ziggysmommy]

Thank you for pointing that out that first sentence! Exactly.

Yes, a huge thank you to Biancavd, and to you Oldgloryrags88.

 

[oldgloryrags88]

What is wrong with you?

The funniness with cash was NOT on my side. I went in complete honesty and good faith. I paid nearly One Thousand Dollars for my Siamese cat. Nothing funny what- so- ever. I had to sign a contract. The written agreement was for my cat to be neutered by a certain age OR I WOULD BE FINED $750.00.    I did just that.   Do I expect papers?   You bet !  

So you are telling me under your guise a cat with papers would cost me $2,000? Come on - This is completely ridiculous.

So you are telling me , I threaten her with going to the IRS? Oy Vey.

That is complete and utter bullsh*t. If you go back and look, you'll see my earlier post to that person about the real cost of papers, you'll see what they're telling you is a lie. I have a $450 show cat. With papers. $2,000 is absurd. That is show/breeder price from a GOOD breeder.

 

[Kat0121]

And there should be someplace to report this kind of thing- in order to help other unbeknownst unaware buyers to be careful. 

You're right. The BBB is a good place to start if you don't hear from her. Since you do have a contract, you can also see an attorney. Some will do the first meeting free to see if you have a case. I know this is more money but these people need to be stopped.

I sympathize with you 100% about this. I'd be spitting mad if I were you and I wouldn't be handling it as calmly and gracefully as you are. I'd be raising fire and brimstone. You deserve to get what you paid for. Period.

You might also talk to your local police department. tell them what happened and ask if this could be considered fraud. You don't have to pay to talk to them.

 

[ziggysmommy]

You're right. The BBB is a good place to start if you don't hear from her. Since you do have a contract, you can also see an attorney. Some will do the first meeting free to see if you have a case. I know this is more money but these people need to be stopped.

I sympathize with you 100% about this. I'd be spitting mad if I were you and I wouldn't be handling it as calmly and gracefully as you are. I'd be raising fire and brimstone. You deserve to get what you paid for. Period.

You might also talk to your local police department. tell them what happened and ask if this could be considered fraud. You don't have to pay to talk to them.

What I haven't said is- I have been very sick- throughout this, I was in the hospital with a bad heart attack. So all of this has not been good for me. Oh yes! The police department !

Thank you so much- Kat0121 for the help and support.

Ziggysmom

 

[ziggysmommy]

That is complete and utter bullsh*t. If you go back and look, you'll see my earlier post to that person about the real cost of papers, you'll see what they're telling you is a lie. I have a $450 show cat. With papers. $2,000 is absurd. That is show/breeder price from a GOOD breeder.

I'm sick, really sick, of mean people, Oldgloryrags88.

 

[oldgloryrags88]

I'm sick, really sick, of mean people, Oldgloryrags88.

I'm so sorry. I hope you get her papers. Don't give up.

 

[basscat]

Best I can tell,  Pedigree papers are only as good as WHO made them.   (such as authenticity papers for a diamond purchased out of the trunk of car in a pawn shop parking lot-vs-the same with a diamond purchased at Neiman Marcus).    Both may be authentic, but, one would probably need to be confirmed elsewhere. 

It sounds as if you already have doubts as to the morals/ethics of this breeder.  IF she came up with papers, would you trust them to be accurate?   Aside from her word, which seems to be worthless right now, how could a person be sure?

Is it possible to verify these things?  Pedigrees?

Apologies for my ignorance, just asking a serious question above.

I bought a purebred kitten (no papers).  The breeder showed me around and pointed out his parents, and told me their names.  NOW,  I do trust this breeder and have no doubts.
BUT, could an unethical breeder buy a kitten elsewhere, cheaper, sell it for a profit, and claim different parents on the papers? 

Aside from years and years of a breeders reputation.  Is there any way to know for sure?

 

[oldgloryrags88]

Best I can tell,  Pedigree papers are only as good as WHO made them.   (such as authenticity papers for a diamond purchased out of the trunk of car in a pawn shop parking lot-vs-the same with a diamond purchased at Neiman Marcus).    Both may be authentic, but, one would probably need to be confirmed elsewhere. 


It sounds as if you already have doubts as to the morals/ethics of this breeder.  IF she came up with papers, would you trust them to be accurate?   Aside from her word, which seems to be worthless right now, how could a person be sure?

Is it possible to verify these things?  Pedigrees?


Apologies for my ignorance, just asking a serious question above.
I bought a purebred kitten (no papers).  The breeder showed me around and pointed out his parents, and told me their names.  NOW,  I do trust this breeder and have no doubts.

BUT, could an unethical breeder buy a kitten elsewhere, cheaper, sell it for a profit, and claim different parents on the papers? 


Aside from years and years of a breeders reputation.  Is there any way to know for sure?

Yes. It's called 'hanging papers'. That is what unethical people can do; they take the papers (or BSN (breeder slip number) ) from a cat that isn't theirs, deceased, spayed/neutered and say that that cat is a actual parent when it is not. Say the cat they want to fake on is a Grand Champion/whatever, they want to say that their cats are from Champion lines, when in reality they're not, so they grab the cat's name and BSN and bam they're 'Grand Champions'. It happened to me 2 years ago, someone took my cat's father and stamped him on a pedigree ( he is now neutered), they took her great grandfather too (he is dead). I reported it and won. They were fined $2,000. That is why you must get it verified.



TICA (The International Cat Association) will register ANYTHING as a breed as long as one parent is a legit breed. Say I cross a Ragdoll to a Bengal. That cat is a 'Ragdoll' after 3 generations. TICA is a genetic registry. CFA (Cat Fanciers Association) will only register Ragdoll to Ragdoll, to Ragdoll to Ragdoll (or whatever breed) and so on. They are not a genetic registry.


Hope that helps?

 

[ziggysmommy]

Yes. It's called 'hanging papers'. That is what unethical people can do; they take the papers (or BSN (breeder slip number) ) from a cat that isn't theirs, deceased, spayed/neutered and say that that cat is a actual parent when it is not. Say the cat they want to fake on is a Grand Champion/whatever, they want to say that their cats are from Champion lines, when in reality they're not, so they grab the cat's name and BSN and bam they're 'Grand Champions'. It happened to me 2 years ago, someone took my cat's father and stamped him on a pedigree ( he is now neutered), they took her great grandfather too (he is dead). I reported it and won. They were fined $2,000. That is why you must get it verified.



TICA (The International Cat Association) will register ANYTHING as a breed as long as one parent is a legit breed. Say I cross a Ragdoll to a Bengal. That cat is a 'Ragdoll' after 3 generations. TICA is a genetic registry. CFA (Cat Fanciers Association) will only register Ragdoll to Ragdoll, to Ragdoll to Ragdoll (or whatever breed) and so on. They are not a genetic registry.


Hope that helps?

Oldgloryrags88,  supposedly the Dam and the Sire of my kitty are registered with American Cat Association, any word on that?

 

[basscat]

Yes. It's called 'hanging papers'. That is what unethical people can do; they take the papers (or BSN (breeder slip number) ) from a cat that isn't theirs, deceased, spayed/neutered and say that that cat is a actual parent when it is not. Say the cat they want to fake on is a Grand Champion/whatever, they want to say that their cats are from Champion lines, when in reality they're not, so they grab the cat's name and BSN and bam they're 'Grand Champions'. It happened to me 2 years ago, someone took my cat's father and stamped him on a pedigree ( he is now neutered), they took her great grandfather too (he is dead). I reported it and won. They were fined $2,000. That is why you must get it verified.



TICA (The International Cat Association) will register ANYTHING as a breed as long as one parent is a legit breed. Say I cross a Ragdoll to a Bengal. That cat is a 'Ragdoll' after 3 generations. TICA is a genetic registry. CFA (Cat Fanciers Association) will only register Ragdoll to Ragdoll, to Ragdoll to Ragdoll (or whatever breed) and so on. They are not a genetic registry.


Hope that helps?

I was thinking along the lines of two registered parents have three kittens.  And two unregistered parents have three kittens.
An unethical breeder could make up the paperwork for all six kittens coming from the registered parents? 

To me, that just seems too easy for a "shady" breeder

 

[ziggysmommy]

Hopefully, DONE !  A real nice lady @ American Cat Association. Amen .... 

 

[oldgloryrags88]

I was thinking along the lines of two registered parents have three kittens.  And two unregistered parents have three kittens.

An unethical breeder could make up the paperwork for all six kittens coming from the registered parents? 


To me, that just seems too easy for a "shady" breeder

Unfortunately, yes. Yes they could.

 

[oldgloryrags88]

Oldgloryrags88,  supposedly the Dam and the Sire of my kitty are registered with American Cat Association, any word on that?

American Cat Fanciers Association (ACFA)? Yes, they're legit. They've gone down hill though. United in 1955 I think. Rumors say they are accepting hand written papers now. So...I wouldn't trust it. But a rumor is a rumor. Have you contacted them?

 

[oldgloryrags88]

I was thinking along the lines of two registered parents have three kittens.  And two unregistered parents have three kittens.

An unethical breeder could make up the paperwork for all six kittens coming from the registered parents? 


To me, that just seems too easy for a "shady" breeder

Also, what kind of cat is in your profile picture? Is that a bob cat???

 

[basscat]

Also, what kind of cat is in your profile picture? Is that a bob cat???

As far as he knows, he's a tabby.  

 

[oldgloryrags88]

As far as he knows, he's a tabby.  :lol3:
[/quote

Very pretty! Never seen a cat like that.


Whoops. Quoted your quote.

 

[oldgloryrags88]

As far as he knows, he's a tabby.  :lol3:

Did it again! Ugh.

 

[basscat]

Did it again! Ugh.

As far as "He" knows.....he's a tabby.  And I'm sure not telling him any different.