I need help with combining breeds

Laura36678

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So, I'm making some art. I have a pregnant calico female and the father is a stray siamese male. I wanted to see if anybody knew what sort of outcomes that come from these two combinations. I guess it could really be anything, but I wanna keep the looks realistic. I also need ideas so.

I know this isn't really the right place buuuut this was the only way I could find any way of posting a thread (old tutorial isn't helpful with new site look).
 

Willowy

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Calicos can have pretty much any color of kittens. Almost certainly not solid white though (a teeny possibility of a kitten with such heavy white spotting they appear solid white, but normally a white cat needs at least one white parent). And if she's a regular calico with solid black spots and he's an average solid pointed cat (not lynx point), there won't be any dark tabbies either.

Most common offspring of a calico are solid black, orange tabby, calico. And half will be pointed like their dad.
 

lutece

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Welcome to the site! I hope we can help :)

First of all, note that your question is about combining colors, rather than breeds. Most cats are not any particular breed, but they do come in lots of wonderful colors!

Calico (tortie and white) is a color. Siamese is a breed, but if he's a stray, he's most likely a pointed domestic shorthair. I'm going to assume that you meant that his color is seal point, since that's the most common. If mom is tortie and white (calico), and dad is seal point, the most likely outcomes for the kittens will be:
  • Boys: black, black and white, red tabby, or red tabby and white
  • Girls: black, black and white, tortie, or tortie and white (calico)
If mom carries colorpoint, you might also get pointed versions of any of the above colors.
If both parents carry dilute (blue), you might also get dilute versions of any of the above colors.

If any kittens are brown tabby or blue (gray) tabby, or torbie (tortoiseshell tabby), your cat has a tabby boyfriend out there somewhere.
 

StefanZ

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And half will be pointed like their dad.
This only if she is a carrier of the point gene ("siamese-mix gene". If she isnt (chances are she isnt); none of the kittens will be pointed.
What MAY happen, the kittens will get pattern or color from daddy too. Say daddy is a lynx tabby; at at least half of the kittens will be tabbies.
 
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Laura36678

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Tysm! This helps quite a lot. I was refering to colors, I was just tired last night lol.
 
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Laura36678

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If any kittens are brown tabby or blue (gray) tabby, or torbie (tortoiseshell tabby), your cat has a tabby boyfriend out there somewhere.
So what you're saying is; in order for any kittens to be tabby the father has to be tabby? Because I was thinking (like you said) the father would be a seal point and the mother is a calico (she's one of those mostly white ones with splotches of color). I don't think any of them would have tabby genes, as she's not a calibby and he's just an ordinary seal point.

This would be her first pregnancy, so there shouldn't be an exact possibility of tabby, but I could be wrong.
 

lutece

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So what you're saying is; in order for any kittens to be tabby the father has to be tabby?
Yes, tabby is dominant, so in order for any kittens to be tabby, at least one parent has to be tabby (or dominant white masking tabby).
 

lutece

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she's one of those mostly white ones with splotches of color
If mom is mostly white, it's likely she is homozygous for white spotting. In that case it's likely that all her kittens would have some white markings. You could expect some black and white kittens of both sexes (likely to have tuxedo-type markings), red and white (boys), and/or tortie and white (girls).
 

StefanZ

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So what you're saying is; in order for any kittens to be tabby the father has to be tabby? Because I was thinking (like you said) the father would be a seal point and the mother is a calico (she's one of those mostly white ones with splotches of color). I don't think any of them would have tabby genes, as she's not a calibby and he's just an ordinary seal point.

This would be her first pregnancy, so there shouldn't be an exact possibility of tabby, but I could be wrong.
Yes. Tabby is dominant, so at least one of the parents must be a tabby. If they carry the gene, they are tabby.

But. On points its not always very visible they are lynx (=tabby). Its more than once I got to tell a forumist hers cats is a tabby point.

But if none of the parents is a tabby, and one of the kittens IS a tabby, then we do know there was another male in the fry.... Either two different fathers, or one totally another male.

Cat female living outside often do mate with several males, and thus several fathers in a litter are possible. But peculiar enough, most often its just one biological father in a litter. If you know basic genetics, you can usually explain only one is necessary to explain different colors....

But now and then, we see examples there must be at least two fathers... :)
 
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Laura36678

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Cat female living outside often do mate with several males, and thus several fathers in a litter are possible. But peculiar enough, most often its just one biological father in a litter. If you know basic genetics, you can usually explain only one is necessary to explain different colors....

But now and then, we see examples there must be at least two fathers... :)
Well I'm basing this off of the book series Warrior Cats, which if you don't know, it's about humanized cats living in the wild in clans. I'm not going to get into it but if you're interested you can look it up. But anyways, the creators usually only have one cat sire a litter of kittens (mostly because the cats are made to be like humans; they have one mate and only mate with that mate). I was doing that just to avoid making the litter so.. abstract?

I guess to kind of put in a proper one-male scenario: She was a house cat that got out one night and got freaky with some random street cat, only to go back to her humans right after because they were calling for her.

Anyways, I'm gonna research about cat genetics. I do know snake genetics, but I doubt the two are anywhere near similar. I feel like I might be confusing you guys because I do tend to have problems getting out what I'm trying to say >~<'.

If I am confusing you, then I'll kind of put my thoughts out right here: Pansy is a calico cat (picture provided). Her baby daddy is a normal seal point feline. Neither have any history of tabby (in the case that their is, it's too far back to cause any difference). She only mated with one male, as provided above. I just wanna know the most realistic outcomes of these two combinations so that there's no unrelated looking kittens.
Here is Pansy (this is my art, btw):
Pansy.png

I'm sorry this is so long T^T
 

lutece

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There are quite a few people here who are happy to help you with your genetics questions. Just ask any question you like! :)

Is Pansy your cat? Or is she a cat that you have imagined and that you are writing a story about?

The most likely kittens in your scenario are the following, with each kitten having an equal chance of each of these possibilities:
  • Black and white male
  • Black and white female
  • Red (tabby) and white male
  • Tortoiseshell and white female
So if you got one of each, your litter would be similar to this group of kittens (using stock photos):
u-g-Q10O09U0.jpg
u-g-Q10O09U0.jpg
23560213-red-kitten-sitting-cat-kitten-on-a-white-background-red-striped-kitten-small-predator-.jpg
tortoiseshell-kitten-standing-white-background-18264223.jpg
 
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Laura36678

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Is Pansy your cat? Or is she a cat that you have imagined and that you are writing a story about?
Pansy is just a cat that I thought of :3. She's apart of a 'gang' of street cats. I'm writing a story about them and I mostly need realistic ideas for the kittens. I took the ideas above (since they were previously sent) and put them into an online 'spin the wheel'. There's 1 male and 4 females, each with their own unique looks. The male is a ginger tabby, one female is a tuxedo, one female is plain black, one female is a tortie and one female is a calico. According to the newest post, all of these are realistic generations so I won't have to change them.

Anyways I think this is all I need for now, but I'm gonna keep it open in case I have more questions. Thanks for helping me though!
 

StefanZ

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OK, so we know, there shouldnt be no tabbies.
IF there is a red kitten, he will prob look as a red tabby. NOT because he is a true tabby, but because all reds have the tabby markings more or less visible. False tabby, so to speak. Or if you want, with very visible phantom markings.

Exactly why is another story, illustrating the tabbishness is really more complicated than my basic pedagogical modell... :)


Ps. I dont know nothing about snake genetics, but I guess the basics are similiar. Some genes and colors are dominant, some are recessive, and if recessive, you must have them from both father and momma for them to show in the child.... Etc.
 
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Laura36678

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OK, so we know, there shouldnt be no tabbies.
IF there is a red kitten, he will prob look as a red tabby. NOT because he is a true tabby, but because all reds have the tabby markings more or less visible. False tabby, so to speak. Or if you want, with very visible phantom markings.
So would this carry on to any red on tortie/calico kittens or?

Ps. I dont know nothing about snake genetics, but I guess the basics are similiar. Some genes and colors are dominant, some are recessive, and if recessive, you must have them from both father and momma for them to show in the child.... Etc.
There's actually a video about this on youtube. I recommend Snake Discovery as she makes it quite easy to understand.
 

StefanZ

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So would this carry on to any red on tortie/calico kittens or?
Yes, these ghost marking could be visible on the reddish spots in a tortie / calico. Sometimes they are clearly visible, often barely visible.

IF they are clearly visible, we may suspect its a true tabby. That is a probierstone, so to speak.
But if no parents were a true tably, than we know its ghost / phantom markings.
 

lutece

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So would this carry on to any red on tortie/calico kittens or?
Yes :)

Tortoiseshell cats are a mixture of black patches, and red tabby patches. In some areas on the cat, you will see large patches of either red tabby or black, and in some places you will see the black mixed together with the red tabby ("brindled"). The red tabby stripes follow the usual tabby pattern, so the effect can sometimes be similar to a red tabby cat that has black ink splashed all over it.

Tortie and white cats that have just a little bit of white tend to have mixed together colors, like a tortie.

tortoiseshell-cat-1559594191.png images-3.jpeg

On a tortie and white that has lots of white (also known as calico), the presence of white markings tends to cause the red tabby and black patches to become larger and more distinct, and less mixed together.

cat-4110342_1920.jpg 1*WSd1WGt2EY4k2jN4o7EXtw.jpeg

tortie-white-spotting.jpg


(Diagram from Messybeast)
 

lutece

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Yes, these ghost marking could be visible on the reddish spots in a tortie / calico. Sometimes they are clearly visible, often barely visible.
IF they are clearly visible, we may suspect its a true tabby.
It doesn't matter how clearly visible the red tabby markings are... genetic solids and genetic tabbies are the same in this regard! Some will have clearer tabby markings, and some will have less distinct markings, but this is just like other cats and doesn't have anything to do with whether they are genetic tabbies... some brown tabbies have clearer markings than others, too.

Sometimes it is possible to tell the difference between a genetic solid and tabby by looking at the ear rims, eyeliner, and chin color. A genetic tabby tends to have white ear rims, white eyeliner, and a white chin. But this isn't a foolproof method at all, since many tabbies have dark chins without any white, and many genetic solids have white chins, too... In any case, the visibility of the stripes on the body isn't an indication.
 
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