I let feral Minou inside. Need cat language translation!

[pixies ma]

I don't really speak cat, though i know a bit of the basics. But i am often puzzled by what they say with their bodies and voices.

In the outdoors corner we have Minou, a 4 year old feral i have been feeding for about a month and who is too smart to be trapped so i can TNR him. So he is still whole. Although i have seen him grow up over the years and he is indeed feral, he has become very affectionate with me with the rubbing, talking, kneading, and begging for neck scratching. There are 2 other people feeding him, but he has been sleeping on my balcony the past few days and generally comes when i call. He is there each night at 9pm for food and cuddles, and is still there the next morning waiting for his breakfast. He is gone most of the afternoon and comes back around 7pm. I have been feeding him on my balcony the past couple days, as we are both on a break from TNR trapping protocol after 2 failed trappings.To my knowledge, he has never been inside someone's home.

In the inside corner we have Pixie, a 1 year old demon i rescued from my back yard when she was 5 weeks old and very sick. Minou is her uncle for sure, and perhaps even her father. She is an inside cat, only coming outside on my balcony with me when i go out for a smoke, though i have not been taking her out lately as Minou is often waiting for me not far away, and the two occasions both cats were within visible distance, separated by a baby barrier and 3 yards, Pixie has made the motion of attacking him, stopped only by my swift intervention (putting her back inside, huffing and puffing). Pixie has never bee in contact with other cats since i took her in, only seeing them from the balcony.

It's getting cold here and i could tell Minou wanted to come in after our nightime cuddle fest. So i did a little test earlier. I put my cat in the washroom as i usually do whenever i have to open the door in case Minou is there (this is kinda complicated) and removed the baby barrier from the door and invited Minou in my kitchen, blocking the rest of my apartment with the same baby barrier. Took him 5 seconds to decide he was game, and he pretty much spent the next ten minutes exploring and rubbing him scent on things. I kept the door wide open for him to feel he could flee if he got scared, but he really did not seem scared, just very curious. He spoke to me, rubbed on me, explored, went to the bathroom door a couple times (i have no clue if mine hissed or growled. I didn't hear anything from the other side of the door) and almost knocked the baby barrier down so he could explore further.
Question number one: Does that makes him a confident dominant cat? Cause he kinda seems like a pushover out there with other male owned outside cats, letting them eat his food.
Anywho, right after he had visited the bathroom door, he came back in the kitchen growling, walking around me and looking at me, and that kinda creeped me out so i invited him out. 
Question number two; Why was he growling at me? 
He stayed on the balcony for a few minutes, looking at me, then left.

I let mine out of the bathroom. She smelled around a bit, but was mainly hanging around my feet, looking at me. And this struck me; her tail was way up and straight, the base flicking like she was a male trying to spray urine. She also let out high pitched meows when i spoke to her (she's not usually vocal), getting up on her back legs to smell my face or mouth. She did that after both times she almost attacked him outside, but i especially noticed the tail today.
Question number three; what was that all about? Especially her tail.

Last question; Doesn't this seem like they are both very territorial and would never get along?

My plans for feral Minou is to keep feeding him, give him (and mine) Revolution every month, provide a Rubbermaid tote shelter for winter, get him vetted, tested for FeLV and FIV, and neutered if i can trap him.
My long term plan is to adopt him, letting him inside when he wants to, without having to keep my cat away from the balcony or locked on the bathroom everytime i want to go out for a smoke.

But now i feel that kitchen test was a mistake, as he will want to come in again. Feeding him and encouraging him to sleep on my balcony was also a mistake as it takes away from my cat's pleasure of coming along with me to torture bugs.

I guess the ultimate questions are, what does it all mean and what should i do?
 

 

[ondine]

All the posturing sounds like posturing.  Each of them is unsure what the other presents - an enemy, a friend?

Pixie is smelling you because - i mean, how dare you pet another cat?  Cats are territorial and that includes their humans.

Minuo growled because he was upset at sensing Pixie.  You were the one he took it out on because he trusts you and was telling you how unhappy he was.

These two can become housemates - it will take time and energy on your part.  I wouldn't let them too close to one another until Minou has been vetted/fixed.  They may have germs the other hasn't met and you don't need sick cats.

I would establish a routine that allows each cat access to the porch.  When Minou is off in the afternoons, allow Pixie outside with you, etc.

Take you time and allow them time to get used to one another the new routine..

 

[pixies ma]

 
All the posturing sounds like posturing.  

Hahaha!

There is no way they are coming any closer than 6 inches, separated by two baby barriers one on top of the other. And thats well after they have stopped fussing through a closed door, and through blanket covered barriers. They will never be in close contact till mine is vaccinated for FeLV and he has tested negative for both FeLV and FIV and has been neutered.  Diseases and viruses scare me. Cat fights terrify me.
But today's experience kinda made me feel uneasy about the whole thing. Maybe i'll gather some courage tomorrow and try again.
Yeah, i did that with the porch. Afternoons were for Pixie. But now he is used to my feeding him after work so he pops by before i have time to go out there with her. I'l have to put that one hold then and hope i'll see him come if he pops by. Though he did not show up for our love fest at 9pm. Maybe he's still grumpy.
Hopefully he's not getting a reaction from Revolution. But probably not. Just roaming.
 

 

[ondine]

There may be a female in heat somewhere who is occupying his thoughts.

Anyway you can give Pixie an AM session on the porch?  Tough, I know when you work.  It sounds like Minou may be aware of when you are on the porch.  He may try to horn in on any sessions with Pixie but ts worth  shot.

 

[pixies ma]

He showed up an hour late, and slept on my chair though he was not there in the morning as i got up an hour later than usual cause it's my day off.
I think whenever i change the hours just a little, he leaves. I have to call him from down in the yard for him to pop by.
To my knowledge, there are no females around, just 3 owned fixed males with tags, and one other feral whole male that never comes to my yard. I could be wrong though. 
I have blocked the entrance to my porch and take Pixie out with me, keeping a watchful eye in case i see him come up. But he's not around much during the day till about the time i usually come back from work. So i think i'll not go down to feed him in the afternoon and invite him back around 7pm, where is is always bound to wait for me.
I sent an email to the SPCA to see if they could make an exception and take him in a carrier. I'm pretty sure i can get him to sleep in one, covered and with blankets in. She said it is not possible as it would put the staff at risk.
I'll be getting the materials to make the shelter next week.

 

[piano cat]

You are doing much the same as me, with 5 former feral or stay inside and two feral/stray outside.  One outside, Joey, is very friendly and the first time he came in, it was his idea to come in, all his behaviours and the other cats' behaviours were very similar.  In my case I would say Joey is confident but not dominant.  He seems to have no wish to be the boss or beat anybody up.  On the other hand three inside, all female, are very intolerant of other cats.  Of them the oldest, at 18, will try to chase but if the other cat won't run, as Joey won't, she gives up.

It is hard to give them all the attention they want and deserve and at this time they need more from me.  Good thing I'm retired now.  Moving slowly is key.  Our other cats have known about Joe for a year, ever since he began sitting on the outside of the window while they sat on the inside.  He didn't come in till about a +month ago and has been sleeping in at night for a month.  Today for the first time I left him inside alone with the two cats who have accepted him best.  I don't see any sign that anybody even moved from the spot they were in when I first left.  I was gone for 45 minutes with the dog.  

This is all to give you an idea of the time it's taking me.  Hang in there, Minou sounds a bit like our Joey, a keeper.    They're all keepers.

 

[pixies ma]

He"d be half an inside cat by now if i didn't already have a hissing cat already

 

[ondine]

It occurred to me that Feliway or another pherinome product might help.   It come sin a spray version, which you might be able to use on and around the porch and door.  Might help calm Pixie down.

 

[pixies ma]

 
It occurred to me that Feliway or another pherinome product might help.   It come sin a spray version, which you might be able to use on and around the porch and door.  Might help calm Pixie down.

You know, i thought about that not long ago but forgot to think of it again. I have seen this product at my vet's but don't know what it is exactly and how it works. This is not a homeopathic thing, right?
So it does the opposite of catnip? Cause i actually got catnip today :\

 

[ondine]

It is synthetic cat pherenomes - the substance they produce when they are content.  They have plugs-ins that work like air fresheners and a spray that I use on their beds and cat trees.  I notice when the plug-ins are running low, we've had a few kerfluffles.

 

[pixies ma]

Worth checking out. Thank you

 

[pixies ma]

Quick update;
I'm trapping Minou tomorrow afternoon. I am confident this will happen this time as it has gone much better with the new bigger trap. He now eats all the way in the back, sometimes on his own when i'm not there.
What worked great for encouragement was catnip. I tried a little bit at first to see if he'd get aggressive, but he didn't. So i made a catnip path all the way to the back.
He is eating very well, drinking well, and gaining weight. His coat is shiny. He spends a lot of time on my balcony, sleeping on my chair. We do lap sessions 3-4 times a day, which we both enjoy though i really have to be careful not to pass an arm over him cause it makes him react like the feral he is. He hissed 6 inches from my face earlier today. Oops.
My lift and i are bringing him at the SPCA tomorrow evening, and he will be tested and neutered on tuesday. A SPCA patroller will drop him off in the evening. I intend on moving my cat to the downstairs neighbors and keeping Minou inside with me, in the kitchen, till wednesday afternoon. I hope he doesn't freak out. He has been inside once and didn't seem nervous, but it might feel differently post surgery with all the trauma and loss of trust in me. I'll use some Feliway spray on corners and bedding, and hope it helps him. I also hope he uses the litter box and not walls or corners. If he freaks out or is agressive towards me, i'll open the door and hope he finds someplace safe and warm enough to recuperate.
Now, lets hope he shows up tomorrow afternoon like he usually does. You know ferals...sometimes their schedules change.
Fingers crossed!

 

[lesliel76]

Wishing you goodluck. Hope it goes well. Keep us updated.

 

[piano cat]

Good luck.

 

[pixies ma]

Thank you

I still have 6 hours to go before i need to trap him, but things are not looking up so well. He seems sick. He came when i called for breakfast, but did not eat. He just rubbed on me and meowed softly like he was in distress. Then he went away. I can see him on the neighbors yard laying like a sphinx. He won't come.
I saw him try to pee twice after he left, but i don't think he did. Could've been the fact that another cat was watching him, could be urinary problems.
I really hope he comes back and gets in the trap cause he needs to be vetted!

 

[pixies ma]

I got him! He is now in the care of the SPCA till tomorrow evening.

 

[pixies ma]

So, Minou is neutered and vaccinated, and is FIV+. Ok...
He will be back 'home' later tonight.

 

[ondine]

So glad you were able to catch him!  The FIV is a challenge but like HIV positive humans, they can live long, healthy lives with the proper support.  He'll get that from you.

He is used to using dirt, so make sue you add a little to the top of the litter.  Dried leaves could work, too.  It will help him understand that the litter is his potty.

 

[pixies ma]

 
So glad you were able to catch him!  The FIV is a challenge but like HIV positive humans, they can live long, healthy lives with the proper support.  He'll get that from you.

He is used to using dirt, so make sue you add a little to the top of the litter.  Dried leaves could work, too.  It will help him understand that the litter is his potty.

I went out to get leaves as soon as i read your post
Still waiting for him to be dropped off. I hate the fact he's in a truck right now making rounds with a patroller but i had no choice as i had no lift to go get him.
 

 

[pixies ma]

I put Feliway on beddings and corners where i will keep him. Hopefully that helps. I have no idea what to expect. He didn't seem mad at of frightened by me while in the trap (just terrified in general), but i have to take into account he will have trauma and might be hostile. In that case, i will open the door and let him go. It will be 9Celcius out overnight.
The FIV diagnosis is making me question my taking him in as a part time indoors cat cause of my own cat. Pixie is a handful. She plays aggressively and just wont take no for an answer when she wants to play.
She jumped right over BOTH baby barriers (one on top of the other) several times earlier as i was setting up the kitchen for Minou. She is now locked in my bedroom with all her stuff.
On the other hand, the FIV diagnosis makes me want to keep him in as it is his best shot at having a healthy life. Can't forget he gets bullied out there.And he is sweet and needs warmth and peace.
I am torn.