I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

[Buffster7]

Thrasher's been gone a few weeks, though Jcatbird did have a positive sighting of her yesterday. So hopefully there will be good news soon. Here's the link to the first post about Thrasher getting out: My Feral And Rescued Cats

Thanks Rubysmama! I followed your link and have been reading up. I sense a happy ending in the near future!

 

[Jcatbird]

Buffster7 I got caught up on the boys. So sorry about the asthma. Bonnie has it too but rarely has an attack. Sounds like the boys just have a love , jealousy kind of thing going. I still have hopes that when life settles into a set routine, they may settle more too. Nothing wrong with a “time out” though. Precious still gets over stimulated at times and there are days when he puts himself into time out. Lol
Today is day 28 of Thrasher being gone. It took me three years to gain her trust so it is not surprising that fear set her way back. She and Flowers were the most abused of the surviving Clowder members. My little couch potato is back to running on feral instincts which will help to keep her safe even though it makes it hard for me. No sign or her today but I won’t give up. Thank you for asking about her. She is a piece of my heart.
My heart must look like a giant furry jigsaw puzzle by now. Lots of pieces.

 

[pearl99]

Oh my Buffster7 I'm so glad you posted! I think of you guys and how things are.
I've not had to give prednisone to a cat, just a dog- when Pearl ate a spider or a bee and looked like a Sharpei. Would prednisone be permanent for Charlie or temporary as in a period of time then taper and stop? (Like happens with humans sometimes.)

I wish too Charlie and Finn would figure out life as friends. Time outs are good. It gives them all a break. Well Finn could have had a very hard life outside, lack of food or other cats beating him up or gotten injured and no one to help him etc.- so that's a possibility too when you feel guilty.
Here's hoping you can get to 1 job in the not too distant future. You must be exhausted!

Life here is pretty OK- Ziggy (who is 14 years going on 15 and I took in 13 months ago, the cat of my neighbors' son who died) was all acclimated then started going after Mooshoo during the night, so I have to have Ziggy in a room by herself at night so Moo doesn't have to spend 24 hours looking behind her. She and Waffles need their time to Zoom around and play.
I think Ziggy and Waffles are bordering on playing. I think they play-snark.
Gracie (13 years old) has decided to live in my bedroom and not allow any of the other cats on my bed, so Gracie gets me at night and the other 3 get me the other 16 hours of the day. It works even though I wish they all didn't care about each other and would be one big happy.

Take care and sending !

 

[Buffster7]

Hey guys, I need some advice. Not sure whether to post here or start a new thread. Charlie and Finn continue to have their frenemy style relationship. Litterboxes have always been a real issue - Finn is VERY territorial and will attack Charlie any time Charlie uses a litter box. I have 3 boxes for the 2 of them. As I'm working so much and long hours, I got a Litter Robot to help. The boys love it. And of course, Finn chases Charlie every time he uses it. I eventually got a PuraX for Charlie to use and he loved it- and things were really great for a while. Then Finn started using it and became territorial over it, too. Charlie is now developing litter box issues. He sprays on the back of the chair that Finn sits on. It's cloth. Charlie is a big cat with a big bladder and makes BIG pees. He literally soaked the back of the chair and left a huge puddle on the carpet.

I've cleaned and soaked it with enzymatic cleaner. I leaned the stairs from the litter robot (which the cat's wouldn't use so stairs have remained boxed, they're not associated with the litter box so should not attract this behavior) against the back of the chair to place a barrier there. This morning I locked the boys out of my room so I could get some extra sleep. When I came out I saw urine collected on those stairs. I was livid. I've soaked the chair and the carpet with more enzymatic cleaner, waiting for it to dry.

Do I put a larger barrier there so Charlie can't get to it? I don't know how to handle this issue, but I cannot and will not live with a cat peeing on my furniture. I have a third automatic litter box coming. My last-ditch effort to have enough of the desired boxes available. Do I prevent Finn from using this litter box so that Charlie has one of "his own"? I allowed Finn to use Charlie's Pura as Charlie would still use the Litter Robot on occasion. Please help, I need advice on how to address this before it becomes a real behavioral issue.

 

[shadowsrescue]

I have had very similar issues with my cats. I have 7 and I have 2 that have pissing contests when they are stressed. Sometimes it's spray and sometimes it's just urinating elsewhere. So I can understand your frustration.

Here are a few things I have tried:
1. You need to find the absolute best enzymatic cleaner. I have found two that are good. Scoe 10x SCOE 10X Super Concentrated Odor Eliminator
It works very very well. Another one is Live Odor Free Live Odor Free!® Pets, Home, and Auto - Noble Ion® Odor Technology It is a must that the previous spots be completely cleaned.

2. This next one is a hard one, but I have found it to be the best solution. You need to put a litter box where the inappropriate pee is happening. In my basement alone, I have 5 litter boxes. One of my cats kept urinating all over the place. This really solved the problem. After a month of no issues, I begin to remove some of the litter boxes. I would just get cheap ones. I use the tall sided rubbermaid containers. I have elevator butt cat peeing machines! This allows them to pee on the sides of the box without it getting out of the box. They aren't pretty either, but they do the job.

3. I close off rooms that are hot spots. I remove items that have been peed on.

4. Another idea is to keep the cats separated when you are not home. This too can be temporary. I find when I am not home, there are many more issues.

5. Be sure your litter boxes are not a place where one of the cats can be trapped. I have a few covered boxes, but most of mine are open so that no one feels trapped if another cat tries to enter.

6. I would not try to prevent one of the cats from using a certain litter box unless it is in an enclosed room. Otherwise you might just be asking for more issues.

7. I run Feliway multi cat diffusers all over the place especially near litter boxes.

8. I also use flower essences for stress as well as one I have found for inappropriate elimination.

9. As a last resort, Prozac can really help with inappropriate urination issues. I have a former feral cat that used to spray everywhere. It was awful. He has been on 2.5 mg of Prozac for awhile now. He was on it for about 9 months, then I took him off for almost a year before it started back up again. He has now been on it a year and 90% of the time he does not spray. Yet Prozac does not come without side effects. It can really alter a cats personality. Some cats more than others. One of my cats ( who was on prozac for aggression) developed urinary retention and had a blockage. This is very rare, but it can happen. I would certainly try medication of some sort before giving up.

I am really sorry to hear about the cat's issues. Yet I understand completely. It is so very frustrating and I have cried many tears over pee. Yet somehow I have managed to find some solutions that do help.

 

[Talien]

I have 2 Cats that hate eachother, they're fine with the other Cats but will go after eachother on sight. One of them started peeing everywhere because of the stress it was causing so I keep one of them upstairs and the other downstairs and it was the single biggest thing that helped. It's been my experience that this sort of behavior will only get worse over time unless you can keep them totally separated.

Have you considered rehoming Finn?

 

[Buffster7]

shadowsrescue

1. You need to find the absolute best enzymatic cleaner. I have found two that are good. Scoe 10x SCOE 10X Super Concentrated Odor Eliminator
It works very very well. Another one is Live Odor Free Live Odor Free!® Pets, Home, and Auto - Noble Ion® Odor Technology It is a must that the previous spots be completely cleaned.
Thank you - I'll order these. I've used an entire canister of The Equalizer and also have Nature's Miracle Urine Destroyer and one from Boxie Cat on hand. I need to get my hands on a carpet shampooer and use the solution in that.

2. This next one is a hard one, but I have found it to be the best solution. You need to put a litter box where the inappropriate pee is happening. In my basement alone, I have 5 litter boxes. One of my cats kept urinating all over the place. This really solved the problem. After a month of no issues, I begin to remove some of the litter boxes. I would just get cheap ones. I use the tall sided rubbermaid containers. I have elevator butt cat peeing machines! This allows them to pee on the sides of the box without it getting out of the box. They aren't pretty either, but they do the job.
I can move a litter box to that spot. I wondered if this might be necessary but needed to hear it suggested. I bought the automatic litter boxes due to Charlie's high peeing - he started actually peeing on his tip-toes and would pee over the extra large boxes and barriers behind them so that the urine would run underneath. I found myself becoming resentful after coming home from a long shift and having to clean up messes - the automatic litterboxes solved all these issues for a while! I'll move one of the boxes to that spot once the carpet dries.

3. I close off rooms that are hot spots. I remove items that have been peed on.
Ah, this room is the hearth room with no way to close off, and the peed on item is one of a matching set of chairs - the only chairs I have to sit on in this main room. I can't afford to replace them yet, but may need to in the future.

4. Another idea is to keep the cats separated when you are not home. This too can be temporary. I find when I am not home, there are many more issues.
You know what's odd with these two - they appear to be grudgingly friendly when I'm not home. I watch them on the camera, and I don't see altercations and they both sleep on my bed when I'm gone. When I'm home they become intensely competitive for my attention, and Finn is the jealous one. I did lock Charlie in my room on Thursday when I was at work, thinking he could use the box freely then. He didn't use the litter box all day (the Pura notifies me of usage and weight of cat using the box). I had to physically place him in the box when I got home before he used it - I could tell by his pacing that he needed to go, but he wouldn't get in by himself. I noticed when checking the camera throughout the day that Finn often stopped by the door of the room, evidently missing his friend. I notice the same when I lock Finn in the room - Charlie waits by the door a lot. They form a reluctant alliance when I'm gone.

5. Be sure your litter boxes are not a place where one of the cats can be trapped. I have a few covered boxes, but most of mine are open so that no one feels trapped if another cat tries to enter. We're good on this one, all the boxes have space to exit.

6. I would not try to prevent one of the cats from using a certain litter box unless it is in an enclosed room. Otherwise you might just be asking for more issues. Good to know - thank you. I was going to try to discourage Finn from using the new one, but last thing I need is more issues..

7. I run Feliway multi cat diffusers all over the place especially near litter boxes. I do this, too. They do make a difference.

8. I also use flower essences for stress as well as one I have found for inappropriate elimination. I use flower essences for bullying and they have been effective for me. Which do you use for inappropriate elimination?

9. As a last resort, Prozac can really help with inappropriate urination issues. I have a former feral cat that used to spray everywhere. It was awful. He has been on 2.5 mg of Prozac for awhile now. He was on it for about 9 months, then I took him off for almost a year before it started back up again. He has now been on it a year and 90% of the time he does not spray. Yet Prozac does not come without side effects. It can really alter a cats personality. Some cats more than others. One of my cats ( who was on prozac for aggression) developed urinary retention and had a blockage. This is very rare, but it can happen. I would certainly try medication of some sort before giving up.

I am really sorry to hear about the cat's issues. Yet I understand completely. It is so very frustrating and I have cried many tears over pee. Yet somehow I have managed to find some solutions that do help.
Thank you for all of your feedback - I'll be implementing all that are applicable! Charlie has sprayed in the past, but just adding a pheromone diffuser and closing the blinds to the offending stray cat in the yard helped. I've never had to deal with this repeat behavior, so am appreciative of your advice - thanks!

 

[Buffster7]

I have 2 Cats that hate eachother, they're fine with the other Cats but will go after eachother on sight. One of them started peeing everywhere because of the stress it was causing so I keep one of them upstairs and the other downstairs and it was the single biggest thing that helped. It's been my experience that this sort of behavior will only get worse over time unless you can keep them totally separated.

Have you considered rehoming Finn?

These two actually seem to miss each other when I separate them. I have asked myself that in the past - would they be happier apart. I've watched them carefully and have come to the conclusion that although they are competitive and testy, that they're also happier with the company than without. For the most part, the altercations have mostly stopped - but the litter box territorial issue has been ongoing except for the brief period of time (a few weeks) when I bought Charlie the Pura and Finn wasn't using it. Charlie could use the box in front of Finn without getting attacked, and we had blessed peace! The minute Finn started using the box and claimed it, we were back to the attacks. If not for the litter box issue, the cats would be tolerating each other pretty well.

 

[shadowsrescue]

Which do you use for inappropriate elimination?

I often use a company called Green Hope Essences. They have a wonderful animal collection as well as many many many other essences. I have found the one called Spraying to be very helpful. Spraying | Green Hope Farm Flower Essences I add a few drops to their food 2x day as well as putting a drop or so on my hand and petting the cat. You can also spritz around the room.

Do you own a blacklight? Some days I wish I didn't. Yet it really helps to find all areas of pee/spray.

 

[pearl99]

Good to hear from you! But oh boy the peeing issues, not so good to hear. I feel for you. I haven't had many litterbox issues but just a couple of thoughts-

Hey guys, I need some advice. Not sure whether to post here or start a new thread.

Maybe both? New members who may also have advice might see it more, can put a link to your post above explaining what's going on now? All the advice you can get, from those who know you and the history and those who don't!

He sprays on the back of the chair that Finn sits on. It's cloth. Charlie is a big cat with a big bladder and makes BIG pees. He literally soaked the back of the chair and left a huge puddle on the carpet.

I used the incontinence paper waterproof pads for humans when Gracie had some issues with pee, when she was developing her hyperthyroidism and renal disease, until it got diagnosed and treated. Maybe for now tape/pin the large ones on the back of the chair and put them under the litterbox by the chair and on the carpet right under the chair back?? If you haven't already thought of that.

When I'm home they become intensely competitive for my attention, and Finn is the jealous one.

I would try to separate them when you are at home. If they are doing okay while you are at work they will have time to be together then. Think of them yes, but also you have to think of yourself. With all this causing stress to you they will pick up on that and react to it. At least for now until things are solved, separating while you're at home may help, including easing some of the stress on you. I'd think they'd adjust to it some after some time.

I also agree lots of litterboxes! All over! That helped with getting my 4 acclimated.

Keep us posted, and sending vibes for calm, solutions, and peace. Glad you are working, and hope it doesn't have to be long hours for long. A cat I had in the past was on prozac, and it did calm him. As shadowsrescue says it can help.

 

[rubysmama]

Oh, Buffster7 , I'm so sorry to read about the pee issues. I can't even imagine how stressed you must be. I don't have any suggestions, but hope things get better soon.

 

[Talien]

These two actually seem to miss each other when I separate them. I have asked myself that in the past - would they be happier apart. I've watched them carefully and have come to the conclusion that although they are competitive and testy, that they're also happier with the company than without. For the most part, the altercations have mostly stopped - but the litter box territorial issue has been ongoing except for the brief period of time (a few weeks) when I bought Charlie the Pura and Finn wasn't using it. Charlie could use the box in front of Finn without getting attacked, and we had blessed peace! The minute Finn started using the box and claimed it, we were back to the attacks. If not for the litter box issue, the cats would be tolerating each other pretty well.

That's going to be hard to deal with whichever way you go then, it may come down to what is more important between keeping them together or not having him pee on your furniture. Charlie is getting back at Finn, he isn't thinking about you in that and doesn't realize it's affecting you even if you yell at him afterward. Unless you manage to catch him in the act and stop him from peeing he's not going to equate the two things, and even that's no guarantee he'll change that behavior.

 

[Buffster7]

Thank you all so much for your input and for the empathy, ha! It IS stressful. Here's what I've done so far:
I tried the litter box behind the chair, but the space is just too tight for the automatic litter box, and the uncovered litter box is just asking to be peed over in that location - Charlie is long and tall and can pee over a large guard. So I've put a gated barrier around the chair. Charlie keeps going to it and sniffing, so I know I haven't killed all the scent, yet. I'm going to have to get a carpet shampooer and use enzymatic cleaner in that. For now he can't access the space. I have a can of compressed air close by - when he shows too much interest in the area I squeeze the trigger briefly (he can't see it's me) and he moves away.

Going with your first suggestion, Talien and shadowsrescue , I think I'll have to separate them when I leave the house, even though they miss the company. It won't be permanent, just long enough for Charlie to get comfortable using litter boxes again. This morning I could tell that Charlie needed to use the box but he wouldn't go. Finally when he saw me put Finn in another room and shut the door, I was able to coax him to my bedroom where I keep an uncovered box, and he used it.

Finn gets MAD and hollers with real anger in his voice when I shut him in a room. This makes Charlie nervous. But I learned this morning that if I shut him in the room with a view of the front yard, he is much more interested in the view, less hollering and howling, SCORE. Now I have a plan for tomorrow.

pearl99 I have the human pee pads already draped over the back of the chair and on the ground around it - great minds! Charlie can't access it with the standing gate around the area, but if he attempts to spray through the gate, I'll see it on the pee pads.
I'm praying that this is just a hiccup and we can get back to normal. Charlie has stress-sprayed before, and it didn't become an everyday occurrence - praying the same for this.

 

[Buffster7]

9. As a last resort, Prozac can really help with inappropriate urination issues. I have a former feral cat that used to spray everywhere. It was awful. He has been on 2.5 mg of Prozac for awhile now. He was on it for about 9 months, then I took him off for almost a year before it started back up again. He has now been on it a year and 90% of the time he does not spray. Yet Prozac does not come without side effects. It can really alter a cats personality. Some cats more than others. One of my cats ( who was on prozac for aggression) developed urinary retention and had a blockage. This is very rare, but it can happen. I would certainly try medication of some sort before giving up.

Also noting this. I've avoided medication entirely, but if this issue is not resolved, it is not off the table. I'd try medication before giving up on my boy, so tucking this away - thanks, shadowsrescue

 

[walli]

Joey pees standing up so I added sides to his litter box! but this is nothing like what you are going through.
I did notice this "Pura litter box" you were talking about, can you get 2 of those?
you might need to get 2 of everything so they don't fight, kind of like me and my sister growing up, ha ha

 

[Buffster7]

Joey pees standing up so I added sides to his litter box! but this is nothing like what you are going through.
I did notice this "Pura litter box" you were talking about, can you get 2 of those?
you might need to get 2 of everything so they don't fight, kind of like me and my sister growing up, ha ha

Hi! Yes, I have two self-cleaning litter boxes. A third on the way. Now I also have 2 old-style scoop boxes out. I put Finn in "his" room - the room with a view that he spent a couple months in after I first trapped him. He was happy as a clam in there yesterday and asked to go back after I got home last night! I kept it closed off so it will seem like a treat for him, here's hoping it stays that way. No new pee spots that I know of from Charlie. I saw him use his litter box last night after I got home, praying and believing that this issue is resolved! I hope all is well with you and your crew - it is so good to see all your names pop up again! I have not had time to catch up on everyone's story. Last I heard, Jcatbird had one of her kitties go missing - was he ever found? Does anyone else here have developments that I missed??

 

[rubysmama]

Last I heard, Jcatbird had one of her kitties go missing - was he ever found?

Yes! Thrasher found her way home, after several weeks, with a lot of help from jcatbird, and her brave cat, BJ. If you have time, here's the post where the rescue begins: Searching for Thrasher

 

[walli]

You really are doing well buffster! You get a trophy in my book
give yourself a pat on the back from me, Job well done.

your like me tho- problem solver
didn't get to read the story but so glad Thrasher is back, that must be the hardest thing we could go through!

been working on my yard and built a shelter for my ferals, you can see it at I Got My Feral in the House Today
no worries if you don't have time tho, I totally get it.

 

[Buffster7]

I've been watching these two closely. I injured my back at work on Saturday so have been home for the last 4 days straight. What I'm seeing is Finn stalking Charlie constantly. I think it was likely play at first, but Charlie startles easily and darts away. Then it's game on for Finn. Now it's habitual. When Charlie moves, Finn stalks. I wish Charlie would fight back, but he just runs to me or to his safe place, a little box that he can hide in. Does anyone have any experience with stalking cats and how to stop the behavior?

 

[pearl99]

I do, however it was with Ziggy who is 15 years old, and Finn obviously is much younger . It was mostly Mooshoo she chased. Waffles stood up to Ziggy pretty soon, Moo didn't for a long time. Ziggy just runs from Gracie .

I just had them separated and worked on it, so not sure if I'm going to be much help but...
I had Ziggy in a room with a gate that she could see out of. I had Moo playing within sight of Ziggy for awhile so Ziggy could see her moving quickly and see it was not a problem. Tried to get Moo closer and closer to the gate. I'd play with Ziggy first so she didn't feel left out. I did area swapping so Ziggy was out in the house also at times, at times in her room. I had her in her room at night until this was done.
For 15 years old, she's playful!! Does Charlie play?

When I had Ziggy out with the others I'd watch carefully and if I saw a stalk starting use the distraction- toss a big soft toy in Ziggy's direction, walk over to Ziggy, talk in a squeaky voice- whatever to get eyes off of Moo.
Moo would do what Charlie does- head for a high spot or to a safe spot, and Ziggy would give up the chase. There was never any physical contact or attack from Ziggy.

I did meals and treats all together in the kitchen/dining room.
Rinse and repeat, it took 18 months. Moo got to standing up to Ziggy, Ziggy has mostly stopped. Now it's rare, and when it does happen I can hear Moo thinking "oh man, not again" and rolling her eyes.

Finn is young, so I don't know if he'll slow down much for awhile. Maybe there's something above that will help!