I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

[Buffster7]

Charlie may object but also, it may take some pushing on your part. I’m hoping that it will end up being the tie breaker though. You are the source of all things kitty! Be the alpha. Banjo sometimes objects to being held too. She wants it to be on her terms only. I pick her up anyway but I don’t hold her once she gets agitated. That’s often pretty quick but holding a toy up helps.

pearl99 I’m glad you got a laugh out of the cat sleeping on my head. I don’t even wake up anymore when it happens. Purring fur head warmer. Actually, head to feet purring blanket might be more accurate.

Well, I'm sitting in bed And Finn has climbed into my lap. Charlie refuses to get in bed but is staring up at us from the floor with wide, shocked eyes. It remains to be seen whether he will join us! ....Well, it looks as though he's making himself comfortable on the floor.

I've picked him up and loved on him a couple times this weekend. He has cried to be put down, and so I do. Another time he even growled at me! Not aggressively, just unhappily. Not sure what angst he is going through.

As for the cat trees, I can't pull the trigger on any of them. Have almost decided to just order the identical one for Finn, just in the off chance that Charlie does decide to take a flying leap off of one. Not worth the risk. Now...do I position the cat trees on opposite sides of the wall, or do I position them side-by-side?

 

[Buffster7]

Keep an eye on Charlie, is he eating and eliminating normally?

Yes to both, thank the Lord. I feel glad that he recently had a check-up at the vet with blood work for him and that all was well, or I would be feeling uneasy!

 

[Furballsmom]

Maybe try some classical harp music for him, if you aren't already

 

[Jcatbird]

Very good point by Furballsmom
If Charlie continues to be distant acting make sure to monitor his health.
I think he may feel a bit like Finn belongs to him but not you. Sharing your attention takes some adjusting on his part. You could try putting Finn down on the floor. If he bounces right back, try putting him on the floor again but putting Charlie in the bed before you get back in. If Finn joins Charlie before or after you do, could work.Feel like a little cat juggling?

 

[Buffster7]

Very good point by Furballsmom
If Charlie continues to be distant acting make sure to monitor his health.
I think he may feel a bit like Finn belongs to him but not you. Sharing your attention takes some adjusting on his part. You could try putting Finn down on the floor. If he bounces right back, try putting him on the floor again but putting Charlie in the bed before you get back in. If Finn joins Charlie before or after you do, could work.Feel like a little cat juggling?

Ha - that's exactly what it feels like! Charlie just jumped into bed. He's kind of giving Finn a stare down. Going to try to turn lights out and see how this goes...I might be back tonight, but I hope not til tomorrow!

 

[Jcatbird]

I’m trying to send vibes to tuck everyone in for the night!! You are very sleepy kitties.......

 

[Jcatbird]

Hmmmmm. Maybe it worked? Lol Hoping!

 

[pearl99]

You are very sleepy kitties.......

LOL!
Charlie may be thinking things through and figuring things out in his kitty brain...will see. He may take some time to adjust to Finn being around in a new bedtime routine, observing for now, cautious. Cats are cautious with change. And then may decide to insert himself again. It's a different type of sharing you now. Can give Charlie all the attention he will accept. Hopefully he can figure out that you love them both and they both will get the attention they want.
I used to wake up to Waffles telling Moo "hey you're in my space" with swats- when she got into his spot, but they did figure things out for the nightime. I think she would love to snuggle with him but he won't have it.

 

[pearl99]

Now...do I position the cat trees on opposite sides of the wall, or do I position them side-by-side?

Try one then the other?? See what works?

 

[Jcatbird]

A few feet apart at first? Equal but separate. Moving as needed. Lol

 

[Buffster7]

Well, it worked! If there were any scuffles during the night, I slept through them. I woke up sandwiched between the two of them! My sleep app tells me I did not get much quality sleep, but I'll take it for the first night.
Now the struggle is, once again, Charlie's morning meanness. They've both been fed and Finn is minding his own business. Charlie just walks right up to him and bites him repeatedly. Finn yelps, ears go back, and the circling stare-down ensues. I intervene; it's too early for this and I haven't had enough coffee.

Charlie has been getting his Dasuquin and gets CBD oil put in every meal. Not sure what to think. I've retired back to the bedroom rather than in front of the fireplace, thinking we will retreat back to the last spot we were peaceful. It's working for the moment, but I'd like to figure this out. I like having my coffee in front of the fireplace. Well....now Finn has left the room and Charlie is walking around the house crying and calling. What in the world..

 

[rubysmama]

Waiting patiently to hear if everyone had sweet dreams last night.

Edit: we posted at the same time! Sounds like everyone had a good night. But grumpy pants is back this morning.

 

[Buffster7]

I will add that when I woke up and had one on either side of me, Charlie was purring up a storm as he does every morning when I wake up - he knows that's the one alarm I won't press snooze on. I don't think Finn had ever heard Charlie purr before - he kept his head down low and pressed tightly against me, tried to make himself as inconspicuous as possible. It was very cute!

 

[Buffster7]

And since I'm home this morning, I'm keeping a close eye on them and posting. Watching Charlie closely. He's come to jump and bite Finn again, Finn ran, Charlie chased him under a chair. About 30 mins later, Charlie came to angrily 'scratch' the ottoman in front of me. He has no claws in front, so I allow it. It's never occurred to me in the past, but it's something he does in the mornings. I've also noticed in the past that there are mornings he'll come up and do that and grab my hand and play-bite it aggressively, but I usually just pull my hand away and ignore it. I know not to push it with him when he's like that; I just sense that I'll get bitten.

Well, this morning he came up and did that to me, and out of curiosity, I didn't pull my hand away. Sure enough, I got bitten. I remembered something Jcatbird said about giving them extra love when they're being difficult, so I picked him up to love on him. He protested with a shrill sound, then he growled a long low growl at me. I held him for a couple seconds longer and then put him down. He started to go toward Finn, who was laying in front of the fireplace, and I just casually said, "What you doing?" and he sat down. So I joined them on the floor. So it seems that maybe Charlie has always been a little aggressive in the mornings, but he's just never had anyone to take it out on before. If I get in his way, I will also be the recipient of his foul mood. Interesting.

OR - is it just that he's frisky in the morning like most cats but doesn't know how to spend that energy? Still, he does zoomies at other times, why not now. There's definitely a meaner or more aggressive vibe from him in the morning. It's the darnedest thing. Because of that, I don't know that I can ever leave them alone in the mornings when I leave. I may always have to keep them separated. Weird.

 

[pearl99]

OR - is it just that he's frisky in the morning like most cats but doesn't know how to spend that energy? Still, he does zoomies at other times, why not now. There's definitely a meaner or more aggressive vibe from him in the morning. It's the darnedest thing. Because of that, I don't know that I can ever leave them alone in the mornings when I leave. I may always have to keep them separated. Weird.

First congratulations on the night!! I had to go to my computer first thing, even before my coffee, to see how it went. Sounds like it went very well.
No idea about Charlie's morning grumpies. That he might be having some pain till he limbers up makes sense. Also sounds like he is in an overstimulated state in the mornings. Will he play with toys with you in the morning?
I'd intervene too between him and Finn.
I think it would be good to leave them separated in the mornings with that going on, till it changes. Small price for all the progress they've made! Interested to see what Jcatbird has to say.

 

[Jcatbird]

Actually, we all had the same thought. Morning energy that needs redirection. He could still be just sore in the mornings too so give the Dasuquin more time. Hand biting by a kitten is play. Charlie missed out on proper human instructions about that so keep a wand toy handy. My wildest boys get held with a toy. They don’t mean to hurt but having a toy sends them after that instead of hanging on to me. Precious will also growl during being held. He lies being held but still growls. Lol Kitties! He does some very affectionate love bites. Yow! The spring toys I got lately seem to have a nice teething effect for my nippers. When I have Precious in my arms he really chomps it. Banjo..... is just very independent. She loves contact but on her terms. She’s a wiggled when I initiate holding. The second I put her down, she wants petting. Lol
I still feel Charlie thinks Finn is his territory and it’s his job to instruct him in the laws of the house. Sleeping together should bring some improvements as long as it goes as well as it did last night.
Guess I’m going to have to send sleepy kitty vibes every night!!
I once did a post with some hyper kittens that I labeled “Hypnotize me.” Can we hypnotize a cat?

 

[Buffster7]

Actually, we all had the same thought. Morning energy that needs redirection. He could still be just sore in the mornings too so give the Dasuquin more time. Hand biting by a kitten is play. Charlie missed out on proper human instructions about that so keep a wand toy handy. My wildest boys get held with a toy. They don’t mean to hurt but having a toy sends them after that instead of hanging on to me. Precious will also growl during being held. He lies being held but still growls. Lol Kitties! He does some very affectionate love bites. Yow! The spring toys I got lately seem to have a nice teething effect for my nippers. When I have Precious in my arms he really chomps it. Banjo..... is just very independent. She loves contact but on her terms. She’s a wiggled when I initiate holding. The second I put her down, she wants petting. Lol
I still feel Charlie thinks Finn is his territory and it’s his job to instruct him in the laws of the house. Sleeping together should bring some improvements as long as it goes as well as it did last night.
Guess I’m going to have to send sleepy kitty vibes every night!!
I once did a post with some hyper kittens that I labeled “Hypnotize me.” Can we hypnotize a cat?

Well that's the berries, if he needs extra playtime in the morning. Mama needs to wake up slowly with coffee!
Darn cats harshin' my morning mellow.
Charlie seemed determined to pick on Finn all morning, not just early morning. True to form, after lunch he settled down and has been totally chill since then. But the boys don't hang out or relax together - they steer clear of each other when Charlie isn't picking on Finn. Which is so weird, because when Finn was confined to his room, Charlie used to cry at the door like he wanted him out! I'm hopeful that one day they'll discover that being friends might be more enjoyable.
Another thought I had was maybe something happened last night while I was sleeping that I was unaware of? When I went to sleep, Finn was on my right and Charlie at the foot of the bed on the left. When I woke up, Finn was pinned to my left side and Charlie to my right. How did they switch sides, was there a fuss and hard feelings carried over to the morning? I guess I'll never know. Will see what tonight holds!

Yes, Jcatbird, keep sending those vibes!!

 

[Buffster7]

One more thing. Anyone know cat psychology when integrating new cat into the household full time. As in - I don't want to anthropomorphize him too much, but Charlie...he is just so offish all day. He has been for the last bit, but especially today, and I'm assuming it's because I let Finn sleep with us? He always gets a treat when I eat dinner. I've been giving both he and Finn a treat at dinner, lately. Tonight he wouldn't come for his treat. I had to go fetch him from the next room, put him on the bed, and he did end up eating it, but he left the minute he was done. Is he feeling displaced? Are his feelings hurt? How do I handle this? Do I give him extra attention, or do I act like nothing is different?

Now tonight he wants in Finn's room. He's been laying outside the baby gate. Finally I thought, "Well, he's been given access to all of Charlie's stuff, maybe I should give him access to Finn's" so I let him in and closed the door, knowing Finn would probably attack him if I left it open and he found Charlie on his ripple rug. Maybe that was a huge mistake. How do you handle your resident cat during this 'difficult' (for them) transition? Tips?

 

[Furballsmom]

Darn cats harshin' my morning mellow.

Bless your heart!!

If you aren't familiar with this, maybe there's something here?

Do Cats Get Jealous? (And What To Do About It When They Do) - TheCatSite

Do cats get jealous? Uncover the truth in this comprehensive guide that explores feline behavior, the concept of jealousy in cats, and offers practical advice to create a happier environment for your pet.

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[Jcatbird]

It’s most likely still establishing the cat rules. Charlie calls because he does like Finn. That is a very parental thing with cats. They just haven’t finished working it out. It has to be something they do. Charlie may retreat with some stress. I think that will stop when the pecking order is fully established. Maybe they worked on that last night while you were sleeping. That could work. You won’t be stressed watching and they can “get r done!”
As for your morning peace.... I totally share that feeling. You could set up some interactive toy just for Charlie. Charlie only toy. Let him get his angst out and then let Finn out.A routine of that could make a big difference so that once done, peace remains. Plus, you get your coffee!8 Superb Automated Cat Toys That You're Going To Love!
I think the second cat tree will help too.