I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

[Jcatbird]

Just putting up some very secure shelving would work. You can get shelving and supports at hardware stores. Just make sure it is properly secured to supports and the wall. As you know, I got a bunch of plastic bins and I can move them around to keep the cats interested. If I put blankets inside to weight them down them I can stack a few too. The cats do enjoy getting on them. The other place you already have is the cage top. I got rubber door mats at the dollar store. 3 bucks each and lined the tops of the cages with them to make it a safe surface for cat walking. A little rubber backed rug on top and they love getting up there. Those rubber backed mats are something I use a lot to protect anything the cats are allowed to climb on.
Another vet visit may mean more bonding time! That’s a plus! Sorry you have to go guys! Tell them the vet just loves them and wants pets!

 

[Buffster7]

Good luck at the vet tomorrow!

Thanks Pearl99! May the kidney function tests turn out perfect and the boys bond over their 'bad day'.

Maybe getting new stuff like the superhighway or cat tree will help Finn know something belongs to him?
and Charlie doesn't own it yet so it may be ok with him.

Yes, that will have to wait until I graduate and start working, though. I bought the large cat condo new recently, but of course Charlie claimed the top perch.

You guys, I'm about to lose it. I took a video and didn't realize I stopped it rather than started it. The short clip I do have does not do justice to the decibels that this climbs too. And I am not kidding when I say it is NON STOP. Incessant, starting the minute the sun goes down. Finn starts crying, meowing, howling, and then gets aggressive with Charlie. Tonight he chased Charlie in circles around the house while Charlie hissed at him and the started spitting at him. It's only 7:30 and he's back in his room. It is EVERY NIGHT ALL NIGHT. I was talking to my Mom on the phone earlier and she said, "What is THAT??" He's so loud, persistent, and tireless. Any ideas of what is going on? Does he want to be let outside? Obviously that won't happen, but is that what he wants? I've tried snuggling him, playing with him, talking to him, ignoring him. NOTHING works. I can literally hear him all the way across the house right now. Wits end here.

 

[Buffster7]

Just putting up some very secure shelving would work. You can get shelving and supports at hardware stores. Just make sure it is properly secured to supports and the wall. As you know, I got a bunch of plastic bins and I can move them around to keep the cats interested. If I put blankets inside to weight them down them I can stack a few too. The cats do enjoy getting on them. The other place you already have is the cage top. I got rubber door mats at the dollar store. 3 bucks each and lined the tops of the cages with them to make it a safe surface for cat walking. A little rubber backed rug on top and they love getting up there. Those rubber backed mats are something I use a lot to protect anything the cats are allowed to climb on.
Another vet visit may mean more bonding time! That’s a plus! Sorry you have to go guys! Tell them the vet just loves them and wants pets!

Ah, I didn't see your post! Yes, I used the cage top in the home office, but I haven't used it in the living room yet because I can see it being a pouncing place - meaning the cat condo is right next to it, and the way they've been, I can see it being a launching pad to pounce the cat on the condo. I can try to move the cage on the other side of the chaise maybe...?

 

[Jcatbird]

It probably is a pouncing place but it might also be equal territory. Which is higher? Lol You might have to move it but you could give it a try. Any raised area adds more territory. I used to have a canopy on the bed I had in the cat room. The cats turned the canopy into a hammock! Kitties!

 

[Furballsmom]

Does he want to be let outside?

I'm thinking yes...? I don't have much to offer in the way of any methods to slow him down or to quiet him. Would you want to try a calming collar?

 

[Jewely]

Could there be another cat outside that’s coming around in the evening? Has he always done this?

 

[Jcatbird]

Calming products might help for sure. He almost has a Siamese voice. To me that indicates an active cat with a need for excitement. The toy that contains treats is excellent. It may be that he senses something outside too. Any chance of another cat outside? Especially one in heat? That would be a real stimulant to him. He may even know a cat outside and be calling to them. I would keep an eye out for outside stimulation. The bunny may be there too. You could try turning on an outside light at night so he can see what is out there. It might clue you in a bit. He is peeing properly?

 

[rubysmama]

There might be something in here that's helpful:

How To Stop My Cat From Waking Me Up At Night (step-by-step Plan) – Cat Articles

 

[Buffster7]

Would you want to try a calming collar?

At this point I will try anything. I'll check into the calming collar!

Could there be another cat outside that’s coming around in the evening? Has he always done this?

There might be, I haven't seen one but that doesn't mean there hasn't been one. I have a neighbor who lets his cat roam. I noticed the bunny hasn't been here for days, so that would indicate a predator is out there..hmmm. Finn has always been very vocal, but it is only a recent development that he has been out of his room at night. He is fine when he's out during the day, but it happens when the sun goes down; the minute the sun goes down, it's incessant and nerve-grating.

Calming products might help for sure. He almost has a Siamese voice. To me that indicates an active cat with a need for excitement. The toy that contains treats is excellent. It may be that he senses something outside too. Any chance of another cat outside? Especially one in heat? That would be a real stimulant to him. He may even know a cat outside and be calling to them. I would keep an eye out for outside stimulation. The bunny may be there too. You could try turning on an outside light at night so he can see what is out there. It might clue you in a bit. He is peeing properly?

Okay, off to look up calming products. I'm putting the Composure Max in his food again since he's been out more and I have the Comfort Zone/Feliway plug-ins all over the house, but neither seem to touch him. I'm also feeding him the Royal Canin Urinary + Calm formula. I'll go for a collar and anything else you think may help.
I have a neighbor who lets his cat roam - and I've noticed the bunny hasn't been here for days, so it's possible the neighbor's cat could have come through my yard. But my neighbor's cat would always stalk Finn when he was outside and they would fight. I saw that cat pounce Finn before, and I saw Finn facing off with it in my garage, and that neighbor said he had seen them fight before, but that Finn was not the aggressor, his cat was. Would Finn want to call to this cat?
He is definitely an active cat with a need for excitement, and he is probably going a little stir crazy. I have about every interactive toy out there, and I do rotate them, but nothing holds his attention for long. Do you think this is something he'll grow out of, or is this just the way he is?

 

[Buffster7]

So a couple searches have found that Relaxivet Calming Collar for cats has the highest ratings. However, this calming collar contains essential oils. I didn't think essential oils were safe for cats? But then, it's been reviewed on several feline-oriented sites, so I would think this would be taken into account if it were a danger? Confused. What do you guys think?

 

[shadowsrescue]

I am not a fan of calming collars. I used one for one of my high anxiety, aggressive cats. It worked well to calm him, but he did not like wearing it. One day I came home and he must have been trying to get it off. It was pulled half over his head and stuck inside his mouth. I completely freaked out. I read that others have had the same issue.

I would try the CBD, but allow it plenty of time (6+ weeks) to work.

 

[walli]

I agree the CBD might work, Joey is like a different cat, He has calmed down a lot, not
sure if it because I was doing the scruffing also, but I think the CBD is what has calmed him down
I got a super high quality one. Not sure if you can get the one I got in your area
I was just telling Joey this morning how proud of him I was,
when I pick him up (I know I'm not suppose to I can't help it)!!
he still chews on my shoulder so I decided to try and not pick him up, sometimes he does purr while I'm doing it and I love it!
but I have to stop so he stays out of the biting habit.

so weird they were laying on the bed together and now this!! maybe they are still trying to figure it out.

 

[Jcatbird]

I don’t think Finn calls that cat but he would be the sounding alarm. Lol BJ still alerts on anything that is out of the ordinary. I do think that this will pass with Finn as he settles more and gets older. You can try closing curtains or blocking views if you think he sees something. If it is an unfixed cat, not much you can do to stop the excitement except encourage others to Spay and Neuter. The CBD oil might get you over the hump. I have always hesitated with collars. If you ever use one it MUST be a break away collar. That means that any attempt to remove it by the cat or if it get hung on something, it will break and free the cat. I have read mired reviews on essential oils. I guess it depends on the particular oil and where it was resourced. Plant extracts can vary greatly from one field to the next. Potency is not always reliable and can vary from weak to very strong. Some products are not regulated.

 

[Furballsmom]

Would Finn want to call to this cat?
He is definitely an active cat with a need for excitement, and he is probably going a little stir crazy. I have about every interactive toy out there, and I do rotate them, but nothing holds his attention for long. Do you think this is something he'll grow out of, or is this just the way he is?

Ok, so apparently my calming collar idea is a dud, but in any case, what if you tried something like a ripple rug or a cat wheel?

 

[shadowsrescue]

A ripple mat is a great idea. I have one and my cats absolutely love it. I bet Finn would go crazy for it! Great idea Furballsmom

 

[Buffster7]

Okay, vet visit went well. My vet said that the potent pee smell from Charlie wouldn't likely be an indication of a kidney issue - that cats with kidney issues would have dilute urine, rather. Blood test will be good peace of mind, but I feel good about it. Charlie's weight is also down to 16.2 lbs from his high weight of 17.4!

After the vet I wanted a quick nap and thought we might all get lucky and catch a few minutes of rest. No sooner did I put Finn on the bed than he went right over to Charlie and bit him. Charlie darted off the bed. Few minutes later, he came back, and Finn went for him again. Not in an overly aggressive way, more in a "Scram, get outa here, I want Mom to myself!" kind of way.

So they've been going back and forth today. I'm so tired today that I am able to stay out of it. I threw an old blanket down on the ground in the living room as Finn likes to bunny-kick them, and Charlie wanted to join Finn on the blanket. Finn wasn't having it and bit his butt a couple times. Charlie came back for round II, and I caught the rest on video:
Do you think I'm squelching Finn too much by making him back down? Later, Finn tried to join Charlie on the chaise to look out the video and Charlie was NOT having it - lots of hissing and swatting, and Charlie departed and went to the cat condo and lay glaring at Finn for at least 5 minutes of sustained dirty looks:

I did order a breakaway collar along with a calming collar before I read the feedback on the breakaway collars. I think I will zip-tie the calming collar to the breakaway collar and use it only when I am home to supervise on the nights when Finn can't be consoled.
I also ordered that ripple mat - you guys are right, I think Finn will like it judging on the way he bunny kicks the blanket on the ground.

As I'm typing this right now, the boys are both out in the living room and I'm in my bedroom and I hear complete silence. The less I interfere, the better they seem to do. Some days I can deal and others I can't - today is a better day. Last night I was literally typing and deleting "It'll be a cold day in hell before I do something like this again!" Anyway, thank you guys for the input and the ideas. I've started them both on Charlotte's Web CBD oil, will pray that it helps!

 

[pearl99]

Yay for Charlie losing weight .
My opinion, in the video, Charlie is not at all afraid to approach Finn, he has tail up and walking on to the blanket. Then he retreats to under the chair, but he's on his side and using just one paw and tapping Finn, Finn only using one paw and they are just batting each other and not trying to do damage. Communication. Charlie isn't in all out defensive posture on his back with all weapons up and threatening, he's just laying on his side and reaching. They decided not to attack each other. And Finn looks away from Charlie, not staring with ears flat back. It almost looked like Finn was in play-pounce posture when he became aware of Charlie approaching for a few seconds.
Not sure if Finn is holding back because of you talking to him or just on his own since I don't know them .
The glaring and hissing and swatting is them letting the other know how each feels about sharing space, but if one is giving in and going somewhere else that is actually good in these interactions. It's not a fight and one gives up and stops.
They could get to where they come to an understanding and tolerate each other but don't interact much (which is actually an OK state for 2 cats), or sometimes play and mostly ignore each other (which is what my 2 do), or be buddies and snuggle up.
Mine still hiss and swat each other sometimes and it's been 17 months. It's them saying "buzz off" or "not cool dude."

 

[Buffster7]

Yay for Charlie losing weight .
My opinion, in the video, Charlie is not at all afraid to approach Finn, he has tail up and walking on to the blanket. Then he retreats to under the chair, but he's on his side and using just one paw and tapping Finn, Finn only using one paw and they are just batting each other and not trying to do damage. Communication. Charlie isn't in all out defensive posture on his back with all weapons up and threatening, he's just laying on his side and reaching. They decided not to attack each other. And Finn looks away from Charlie, not staring with ears flat back. It almost looked like Finn was in play-pounce posture when he became aware of Charlie approaching for a few seconds.
Not sure if Finn is holding back because of you talking to him or just on his own since I don't know them .
The glaring and hissing and swatting is them letting the other know how each feels about sharing space, but if one is giving in and going somewhere else that is actually good in these interactions. It's not a fight and one gives up and stops.
They could get to where they come to an understanding and tolerate each other but don't interact much (which is actually an OK state for 2 cats), or sometimes play and mostly ignore each other (which is what my 2 do), or be buddies and snuggle up.
Mine still hiss and swat each other sometimes and it's been 17 months. It's them saying "buzz off" or "not cool dude."

Yay, I love hearing interpretations of their behavior, because I don't know what I'm looking at half the time. As I've watched them today I think I see a constant struggle over territory. I think I picked up a subtlety of how Charlie doesn't really allow Finn to have any territory of his own. When I put the blanket down for Finn to play on, Charlie came and sat on it. When I bought the new cat condo for them, Charlie claimed the top bunk and won't allow Finn up there. When Finn peed in Charlie's litter box, Charlie got upset. When Charlie peed in the communal litter box in the living room, Finn tried to smack him while he was using it. So Charlie jumped out and went and laid right in the middle of Finn's blanket. Constant struggles. Fortunately, Finn doesn't get totally cowed. He does usually give in, but not without making Charlie sweat. As long as they don't get into a fight, I am fine. I would love for them to be buddies, we will see. Also, after their little interaction in the vid, Finn started his incessant meowing for a while, which makes me wonder if it's not an anxiety thing.

Did yours ever fight, and are they friends now, or do they just tolerate each other?

 

[Jcatbird]

Okay. You do remember me telling you about Precious? I still have squabbled here among a few. It’s a back and forth but not a constant.
I really thought Finn was wanting to play. Maybe he is just calling Charlie out because he wants to play? Possible. Charlie challenged Finn to come “under the chair my boy!” That one paw swat is something I saw as a Charlie for of owning the game. Sorry but I was just smiling at the cattitude being shown. They both have strong personalities but it just didn’t seem serious yet. It could have gone there but right that moment, I saw it as test play. What can each of us get away with. I think they are doing very, very well. I do think they will be buddies and in a small way, already are. I have dealt with others that were bent on constant attacks to vanquish each other. That is not this. They weren’t really even mad yet. Imagine if they were human brothers. They might pick at each other. It would be,” Mom! He touched me!” Then,” Well he breathed on me first!” Ask any parent who ever took two kids on a very long car trip. Lol That’s kind of how I see Charlie and Finn acting here. I think you’re doing great.
Now, how about a third kitty?

 

[pearl99]

Now, how about a third kitty?