I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

Buffster7

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It sounds so treatable! Hope this cures it.
Thanks! I have high hopes. Day 2 of meds and I'm already seeing a decrease in the licking and chewing!
So relieved it was something that medication will help. My dog had a similar condition where she lost a lot of fur. She was put on thyroid meds and it really helped. The fur regrowth took a few months, but it did come back.
Interesting! How long did your dog have to stay on the meds? Did she experience any side effects?
But did the vet say what's causing this? It's usually fleas but in Charlie's case it's his thyroid? Did they provide anything to relieve his itchiness in the meantime?

Is the chamomile tea helping his discomfort?

I don't mean to be a buzz-kill, that's certainly not my intent, but this is from the Merck Veterinary Manual;
Feline acquired symmetric alopecia (formerly called feline endocrine alopecia) is a syndrome that describes hair loss on both side of a cat's body that occurs due to an underlying disease. The most common cause is flea allergy dermatitis.
The most common cause is flea dermatitis, but Charlie's is endocrine alopecia. My vet explained the different treatments and chose to avoid a couple options due to efficacy and side effects. Cats with this condition tend to respond well to thyroxine, which has lesser side effects than other available treatments. I'm already seeing a significant decrease in Charlie's over-grooming behavior. I asked my vet if he thought I should put a donut collar on Charlie, and he didn't think I'd need to. I'm quite hopeful!
No chamomile yet - haven't had time to go to the store. I'll pick some up when I do get to town. I really don't see Charlie allowing me to hold anything wet against his skin; he doesn't like to be held or even touched much, and it would be a literal struggle for him to allow me to hold anything wet against his skin. At this rate, we may not need to, will watch for the next couple days.

On another note, the vet visit did disrupt the boys' good streak, but not horribly. Finn did pounce Charlie when I brought his carrier out. Vet smell must have been on it. They were very wary around each other all day after the vet, whereas they used to kind of bond over it. Better this morning but still not the level of camaraderie they'd been enjoying. My best friend is staying with me for a couple days. Last night we were watching a movie and Charlie jumped up to lay next to her, just gazing at her wide-eyed and adoringly. It was short-lived as I could see Finn eyeing Charlie, and he came up and bit Charlie on the back, and Charlie exited stage left. I scolded Finn; next thing I know they are both hiding under the bed. I've noticed lately that if one of them gets scolded, they stick together. Last time Finn pounced a sleeping Charlie out of the blue, I was FURIOUS and dropped down to my knees to hiss at Finn. Charlie came and put himself between me and Finn, and lay next to Finn. I was floored. Last night when I scolded Finn for biting Charlie, Finn jumped off the bed and went to join Charlie underneath. Cats, man...sometimes I just do not understand them. Love em, but do not understand them. Now I know how men feel about women.
 

Furballsmom

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I'm just mentioning to keep the record straight, however he's improving, so never mind.

endocrine alopecia.
This is the name of the skin condition, fleas are usually the cause of the skin condition (although not always).

struggle for him to allow me to hold anything wet against his skin.
If you have the cotton swab (or whatever you use) wet enough you won't have to actually hold it against him. If he's itchy at all, it can be quite helpful.

Now I know how men feel about women.
LoL
 

Buffster7

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Oh my goodness that is so touching how they watch out for each other. Fighting brothers but they have each others' back. I'm so glad to hear Charlie has some improvement already!! Relief.
Somehow, they DO have each other's backs now! I haven't said anything about "the day" because the way these two are...how many times in the past haven't I thought we had a breakthrough? I didn't want to speak too soon...again. ;)
But when my mom was staying with me for a few days, something happened. Charlie was sleeping on the ottoman in front of me. Finn jumped up and pounced him - that was when I dropped to my knees and hissed at him and Charlie put himself between Finn and me and lay next to Finn. Shortly after, though, when Finn had moved to his own perch to look out the window, Charlie came after him to settle the score. Charlie jumped and pulled him off that perch and was on top of Finn. My guess is that Finn felt scared/outweighed and he must have gone all teeth/claws out because Charlie really yelled, there was quite a bit of fur on the ground, and Charlie went and hid under my bed for the rest of that day and night and part of the next day. Refused to come out. I checked him over at mealtime and he wasn't injured, and he still had appetite to eat. But he was totally anti-social and out of sorts. I was worried. Now I wonder if perhaps he didn't lose those two battles? But ever since then they have not tussled again. There's still competition, a nip at the back or butt, but no more tussling. It's been relatively peaceful around here for gosh, about 1.5 weeks or so?! It has been WONDERFUL.

How is your crew doing? Is Ziggy settling down more?
 

Buffster7

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If you have the cotton swab (or whatever you use) wet enough you won't have to actually hold it against him. If he's itchy at all, it can be quite helpful.
If his itching doesn't subside, I'll be more than willing to try it to get him some relief. It will be a fight; whether I hold a cotton swab or a tea bag, he will fight me. Worth it if it brings relief, though my goal is still to address the root cause.
It's the "endocrine" that gives away the cause.
Yes, Mamanyt1953 said it - the cause is endocrine.

I'm surprised to see a change in behavior so soon. I expected to see something in a few days because my vet told me I would. But this is only day two and the difference is startling. Is it possible to see a change so quickly? It must be because I'm seeing it, but having a hard time believing it, still. Will see what the next couple days hold.
I. Am. So. Relieved. :clapcat::woohoo:
 

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If you see it, then it’s there. Don’t even question it. It’s working! :banana1: Enjoy! This is fantastic news and if Charlie is comfortable, everyone will be more relaxed!

I know that cats are a bit of a mystery to us at times but I firmly believe that it all makes perfect sense to them. Lol Defending each other? Isn’t that kind of like a family squabble but in the end, the members defend each other? :lol: I had to laugh at your descriptions. Especially the line about men understanding women. It made me think of the book title,”Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus”, so cats are from.........
(I laughed when I read this, and I hope you do too. I found it on google) We Have Irrefutable Proof That Your Cat Is, in Fact, an Alien | Catster

Wanda Heart is a bit under the weather. We have had a lot of company lately and she got stressed out. That led to a drop in her immune system according to the vet and she ended up with a respiratory problem. I caught it early and she is receiving treatment. I actually thought of Charlie and Finn when I found an anxiety relieving toy! It’s a stuffed kitty that has a beating heart. It replicates the comfort a cat gets from their mom. It seems to work! Lol
2A4DA47F-8B2B-4FEA-BE5F-6263077F60AD.jpeg
2CCDCEED-FC28-4300-B488-3A295043C545.jpeg
AADAE644-7115-44ED-96B9-8F275C500244.jpeg
B672D752-C9C0-44A5-A74C-CDA94BA194A0.jpeg

The things we do to help our kitties relax! Whatever works!
 

pearl99

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How is your crew doing? Is Ziggy settling down more?
They are doing well. Ziggy is slowly adjusting to the others and the others to her, I wish it would go a bit faster but really I have all the time in the world. They're not buddies yet but everyone is getting closer slowly to "oh hello" and walking on by. I don't think they'll be totally integrated for a while yet. But that's okay. Ziggy is happy.
I have Ziggy off her old food (it's all gone) except some wet food that the neighbors brought that their son had (he had a fair amount of wet and dry food, didn't want to change her till she settled) and her skin flakes have almost totally disappeared. She was quite a chubby thing :redtabby: and she's come down in weight some too.
I had family from out of town in my house for a week and Ziggy stayed in her room, she's quite shy with new people.

Yes, cats ARE aliens:

catalien.jpeg
 

Jcatbird

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They are doing well. Ziggy is slowly adjusting to the others and the others to her, I wish it would go a bit faster but really I have all the time in the world. They're not buddies yet but everyone is getting closer slowly to "oh hello" and walking on by. I don't think they'll be totally integrated for a while yet. But that's okay. Ziggy is happy.
I have Ziggy off her old food (it's all gone) except some wet food that the neighbors brought that their son had (he had a fair amount of wet and dry food, didn't want to change her till she settled) and her skin flakes have almost totally disappeared. She was quite a chubby thing :redtabby: and she's come down in weight some too.
I had family from out of town in my house for a week and Ziggy stayed in her room, she's quite shy with new people.

Yes, cats ARE aliens:

View attachment 345185
I’m glad Ziggy is adjusting! Change and new humans are hard for kitties.

That picture is too funny! Yikes!
 

Furballsmom

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. I actually thought of Charlie and Finn when I found an anxiety relieving toy! It’s a stuffed kitty that has a beating heart.
I've suggested those a time or two for adult cats, (I first heard about them for orphan kittens), and thank you for thinking of it for Charlie-baby, since he's not a touch-able cat (regarding the tea but also even petting, I assume, which helps some kitties).

There's this too, now that you've mentioned these sorts of things :);
 

Jcatbird

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I've suggested those a time or two for adult cats, (I first heard about them for orphan kittens), and thank you for thinking of it for Charlie-baby, since he's not a touch-able cat (regarding the tea but also even petting, I assume, which helps some kitties).

There's this too, now that you've mentioned these sorts of things :);
[/URL]
Great idea! Hopefully Charlie is healing but maybe Wanda Heart would like that!
 

Buffster7

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If you see it, then it’s there. Don’t even question it. It’s working! :banana1: Enjoy! This is fantastic news and if Charlie is comfortable, everyone will be more relaxed!

I know that cats are a bit of a mystery to us at times but I firmly believe that it all makes perfect sense to them. Lol Defending each other? Isn’t that kind of like a family squabble but in the end, the members defend each other? :lol: I had to laugh at your descriptions. Especially the line about men understanding women. It made me think of the book title,”Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus”, so cats are from.........
(I laughed when I read this, and I hope you do too. I found it on google) We Have Irrefutable Proof That Your Cat Is, in Fact, an Alien | Catster

Wanda Heart is a bit under the weather. We have had a lot of company lately and she got stressed out. That led to a drop in her immune system according to the vet and she ended up with a respiratory problem. I caught it early and she is receiving treatment. I actually thought of Charlie and Finn when I found an anxiety relieving toy! It’s a stuffed kitty that has a beating heart. It replicates the comfort a cat gets from their mom. It seems to work! Lol
Oh my goodness, that article did make me laugh! I have the vacuum parked right in the middle of my living room right now, unable to proceed because Charlie just got settled down for a nap and he's had a bit of a stressful morning, so I don't want to disturb him. Mind-controlling aliens! :lol:

He's definitely chewing much less, but I did catch him licking this morning and because I'm me and can't leave well enough alone, I decided to try the collar on him until the meds kicked in fully. Well. Finn came over to investigate immediately. Amazingly, Charlie didn't shrink back but allowed him to sniff. Finn left him alone, then. It wasn't until Charlie tried to get up and walk to the next room that Finn appeared to decide that this monster must be dealt with. I distracted him before anything could happen, but Charlie took to hiding under the couch. I coaxed him out with treats, removed donut and put it on Finn so it would look like Mom was just an a-hole getting her jollies with playing dress-up, rather than Mom is picking on Charlie. That seemed to work - Finn was back on level playing field with Charlie and lost interest. Charlie, however, is REALLY nonplussed and sulky. I've filled every hiding spot under the bed with boxes and pillows, so no more hiding out there.

Poor Wanda Heart! I had to go scouring your thread looking for what had happened when you mentioned she'd been to the vet earlier. I hope she's almost totally back to normal? That toy you got her - they work! I had one that I brought to the vet and left in Finn's cage after I trapped him and he was being neutered. Remember when I went to visit and he was SO STRESSED? The toy I got him was a plush toy like yours but instead of a heartbeat, it purrs. He visibly relaxed and to this day, if I put that toy near him and it starts to purr, he'll go over and start making biscuits on him. I bet Wanda Heart loves her heartbeat toy forever, now!
 

Buffster7

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They are doing well. Ziggy is slowly adjusting to the others and the others to her, I wish it would go a bit faster but really I have all the time in the world. They're not buddies yet but everyone is getting closer slowly to "oh hello" and walking on by. I don't think they'll be totally integrated for a while yet. But that's okay. Ziggy is happy.
I have Ziggy off her old food (it's all gone) except some wet food that the neighbors brought that their son had (he had a fair amount of wet and dry food, didn't want to change her till she settled) and her skin flakes have almost totally disappeared. She was quite a chubby thing :redtabby: and she's come down in weight some too.
I'm so glad they sound like they're adjusting - at least there is no drama! What kind of food was Ziggy's owner feeding her that she was overweight and flaky? Do you still have to intervene with cardboard now and then, or are they pretty much past that phase?
I've suggested those a time or two for adult cats, (I first heard about them for orphan kittens), and thank you for thinking of it for Charlie-baby, since he's not a touch-able cat (regarding the tea but also even petting, I assume, which helps some kitties).

There's this too, now that you've mentioned these sorts of things :);
I got one of those licki-mats for the cats after seeing them recommended on here! I make them share one; I squeeze a bit of treat on each corner, and they love to lick their treat off of it!
I managed to press the chamomile tea bag that I have against Charlie's hot spot. I tricked him while he was eating. I wouldn't say he's not touchable, but he doesn't enjoy being touched 98% of the time, though he does like a good cuddle when he's napping. He'll curl up in the crook of my arm and wrap his paws around my arm and sleep - that's the only time he really allows touching. But when he's eating, I can get away with it. He did start licking that area again, more cleaning than the licking he will do when he's chewing. Probably to get the hairs (stubs) back in place since I got them damp. ;)
 

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I want donut pictures! :lol: Don’t put it back on them just for photos but I did want to see the reactions. It sounds like it went pretty well! Yay! You filled the hiding place under the sofa? Lol If I did that , Banjo would lose her storage building! Between her carrier and the sofa, she takes everything there that she wants to hoarde for herself. There are always toys under the sofa here. She even dragged the ball tower under there. I didn’t know it would fit but she managed.
I wish I could have found the purring toy but the Heart one worked and it seemed made for Wanda Heart. Lol It was a mad dash to find something to calm her immediately so I was glad to find the toy. She is still very jumpy but better. So, you see that we all do the kitty waltz. Two steps forward and one back. ;)
That article was funny. I have often stopped doing something to accommodate a cat. With this Clowder, that can make for some very wrinkled laundry! Of course I have known for a long time that “they own everything!”
I hope Charlie gets over sulking.Don’t get your Whiskers in a twist Charlie! We all love you and Finn! :redheartpump::redheartpump:
 

Buffster7

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The ill-fated donut venture. This was before Finn reacted to it - that didn't happen til Charlie got up and tried to walk.


What's interesting to me is that when the boys are sitting anywhere, Finn will come up to Charlie and bury his nose in Charlie's fur on his back like he's smelling intently. He does this almost every time they sit close to each other. Does Charlie's irritated skin emit some sort of odor? Or is this a cat dominance thing?
 

Buffster7

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I want donut pictures! :lol: Don’t put it back on them just for photos but I did want to see the reactions. It sounds like it went pretty well! Yay! You filled the hiding place under the sofa? Lol If I did that , Banjo would lose her storage building! Between her carrier and the sofa, she takes everything there that she wants to hoarde for herself. There are always toys under the sofa here. She even dragged the ball tower under there. I didn’t know it would fit but she managed.
That cracked me up - Banjois a hoarder!!! :lolup: The personalities of these creatures is 10x the size of them!
 

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I think Finn has always been aware of anything being off with Charlie. His feral senses are still acute. I would be very surprised if there wasn’t a difference in scent. Animals can even sense or smell human illness. I recently read a study about that very thing. As body chemistry changes, they do react.
Poor Charlie is just frozen there with the donut. Finn really checked it out too. I gotta say, you got “the look” from Finn after he turned to walk away. As though to say,”How dare you do that to a cat!?!?! Am I next? Perhaps retreat is a good idea for now? “Putting it on them both is a great idea. It fosters understanding as well as scent swapping. Be carful Finn. You fight when Charlie needs the collar and you get put into the stockade! I still keep imagining what would happen if they both wore one at the same time. Lol Bubble bump? Perhaps total surrender? :dunno:

Yes. Banjo keeps all the best toys for herself. Lol I have had her raid the cabinet in the kitchen for the Fancy Feast Broths! Lol To her credit, she did share those. I never figured out if it was Banjo or Whistle who took the box of Frosted Flakes and dragged it into the living room. All the kitties got some but Whistle is the one who got caught red handed/ pawed. I think Whistle took the rap for his sister on that one.
Thanks for the video. It’s a learning experience for us all. I much prefer that donut to the standard cone collar. The donut does not restrict the area of vision. It isn’t nearly as cumbersome either. Big plus on that!
 

Buffster7

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I gotta say, you got “the look” from Finn after he turned to walk away. As though to say,”How dare you do that to a cat!?!?!
YES! I thought so, too. And just a couple minutes ago, Charlie was licking his knee - I wanted to see if he would tolerate the tea bag when he wasn't eating. He wasn't chewing the knee like he does when he's really going after it, but he was licking with more purpose than to groom, if that makes sense. So I took the tea bag and tried to press it to the area. Charlie tolerated it for a couple seconds but then pulled away pretty quickly - Finn made a sound and jumped off his chair and came marching over. It was almost as if to say, "Hey hey hey - is this really necessary?" I think he thinks I need to be monitored!

Banjo and Whistle!! :flail:No guts, no glory! You KNOW the rest of the cats are totally down with the antics, too! Not every kitty has the guts, but they've no qualm about enjoying the spoils! Reminds me of when I watched Finn and Charlie on the camera one night when I was at dinner. Couldn't figure out what they were doing, but they were intent on something in my bedroom doorway. Came home to this and a half empty bag:
treats.jpg
 
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