I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

Buffster7

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Well, today is my first day working from home this week. Interesting to see the interaction. I was working at my desk when I heard a long yowl/cry from Charlie. They've been tussling today and I've just let them. Charlie started the first one this morning. Now in the office, Finn must have pounced Charlie and it must have hurt, because I've not heard him cry that long and shrill during a tussle before. They separated and I videoed when they started again. The vibe started to feel a little angry, so I distracted them. The pic is of Charlie's black & white fur on the carpet after. When I went to stroke him later, lots of fur came off in my hands, too. I don't know if it was fur pulled during the tussle, or stress-shedding?

Do you think it's possible that Finn just doesn't know how to properly play/use the right amount of pressure, or do you think that when fur comes out, they mean business?

*Edited to add: Finn has been put in my bedroom to chill out for an hour while I work. He came to snuggle me on my desk but when I cuddled him, he sank his claws into my arm and looked like he was about to bite. Either agitated or over-stimulated for whatever reason. But perhaps the vid below was a result of this.

fur.jpg
 
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pearl99

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All is still going quite well, I just can't figure out what's going on with Charlie. He's not only standoffish with me still, but he doesn't really want to be near me at all. I still keep our morning coffee-in-front-of-the-fireplace routine going while Finn snoozes in my room, but Charlie hasn't wanted to sit with me. Lately if I pick him up, he'll growl at me - he never used to do that. I actually gently scolded him tonight when he growled - I was picking him up to show him his feeder that had just opened, hoping to get him there before Finn discovered it.
Just now Finn was sitting with me on my bed, and Charlie wandered in. Finn immediately jumped down and went to lay beside Charlie, almost as if he was sucking up to Charlie because he got caught sitting with mom. They then had a good-natured sparring match, after which Charlie happily rolled over on his back. I cannot resist when he rolls on his back. I had to get down from the bed and go stroke him. He immediately got up and left the room - wants nothing to do with me. Could he be "mad" at me? Or is he trying to maintain the 'alpha' image by not letting me touch him in front of Finn?
As to the growling when picked up, cats can feel more vulnerable and defenseless when picked up, so Charlie may feel that with what sounds like still doing some adjusting to Finn in the home.
Also, I have sometimes had the new cat in their safe room at night after they were both out in the house full time to let the resident cat have the night time with me alone to sleep on the bed like in the old times pre-new cat. That may be a thought once Finn's safe room is available again, after the company.
 

pearl99

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Well, today is my first day working from home this week. Interesting to see the interaction. I was working at my desk when I heard a long yowl/cry from Charlie. They've been tussling today and I've just let them. Charlie started the first one this morning. Now in the office, Finn must have pounced Charlie and it must have hurt, because I've not heard him cry that long and shrill during a tussle before. They separated and I videoed when they started again. The vibe started to feel a little angry, so I distracted them. The pic is of Charlie's black & white fur on the carpet after. When I went to stroke him later, lots of fur came off in my hands, too. I don't know if it was fur pulled during the tussle, or stress-shedding?

Do you think it's possible that Finn just doesn't know how to properly play/use the right amount of pressure, or do you think that when fur comes out, they mean business?

*Edited to add: Finn has been put in my bedroom to chill out for an hour while I work. He came to snuggle me on my desk but when I cuddled him, he sank his claws into my arm and looked like he was about to bite. Either agitated or over-stimulated for whatever reason. But perhaps the vid below was a result of this.

View attachment 308872
Yeah the video looks more tense and agitated to me and I would have distracted and split them for a while. Finn may have been feeling pretty stimulated still after the tussle and had to express some aggression to the nearest living thing, you.
 

Buffster7

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I can't give my boy the full dose-it upsets his stomach. You might check with your vet and see if you can decrease the dose, or skip a day, et al and see if that helps.
Hmm, okay. I just added half a capsule to his lunch and he didn't eat. I may give it a break for a couple days.
The vid looks to me as though this was more serious, and I'm not absolutely sure but those tufts of fur were likely pulled out during tussling.
I picked up all the fur and the bigger tufts were pulled out from the skin. Finn did start this one. When they pull out tufts - is is with mouth, or grasping with paws? Is it always aggression? Do cats ever do this accidentally?
Also, I have sometimes had the new cat in their safe room at night after they were both out in the house full time to let the resident cat have the night time with me alone to sleep on the bed like in the old times pre-new cat. That may be a thought once Finn's safe room is available again, after the company.
Phew. I have the guest bedroom turned back into a guest bedroom with the nice duvet and decorative pillows w/ tassels - litter box cleaned and stored in garage, lamps back up, the works. All that would need to be removed/replaced if I were to put Finn back in there for a night. However, if it looks like that's what needs to be done, then that's what I can do. Not sure why they're so testy today. Makes me wonder what went on when I was gone this week. They seemed fine in the evenings by the time I got home, but.. :think:
 

pearl99

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I picked up all the fur and the bigger tufts were pulled out from the skin. Finn did start this one. When they pull out tufts - is is with mouth, or grasping with paws? Is it always aggression? Do cats ever do this accidentally?
I think it is likely both teeth, and claws being out. Are there any scratches or bite marks on either?
To me it can be accidental if they are playing heavily too.
 

pearl99

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Phew. I have the guest bedroom turned back into a guest bedroom with the nice duvet and decorative pillows w/ tassels - litter box cleaned and stored in garage, lamps back up, the works. All that would need to be removed/replaced if I were to put Finn back in there for a night. However, if it looks like that's what needs to be done, then that's what I can do. Not sure why they're so testy today. Makes me wonder what went on when I was gone this week. They seemed fine in the evenings by the time I got home, but.. :think:
Oh man lots of things to do on that one. And my cats have never liked being closed in my bedroom all night, so maybe not workable.
 
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Quacksdoctor

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A stray that has been left a while on their own can appear feral at first. But, typically a feral will not warm up to a human the way this cat has warmed up to you.
You would be lucky that an actual feral cat would even allow you to see them to begin with, let alone come anywhere remotely close to you. If you blunder across the area of a wild female, which I have, she will flash by you so fast you will think you are hallucinating. That's what a real feral cat does. They don't sort come up to you and run back. They don't hang around outside, somewhere's, in your vicinity, unless they're desperate, allowing them to see you, posing for people, or whatever. You might catch a glimpse of them now and then, and then they're gone. That is the hideous part of feral cat predicament that surrounds your neighborhood, dumped cats off wherever, and that includes around businesses and commercial property people obliviously walk by and drive by EVERY SINGLE DAY of your lives, and aren't even aware of the fact that there are cats around you everywhere. As I've pointed out on here before, they come out and show themselves to you only because they are that desperate. As I've pointed out on message boards like this before. There is no actual comprehensive TNR AND ongoing follow up, because it simply doesn't exist and never has. Most people are oblivious to it and continue on in that state of ignorance. Plain and simple.
 

Buffster7

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I wonder if Finn is trying to challenge Charlie for dominance? There was a pattern when they were establishing dominance initially: they would spar several times, and when Finn finally acceded, Charlie would roll on his back like he was sunbathing in all his glory, and a morose-looking Finn would crouch beside him with head down. I just saw that happen again.

I went to take a nap (sleep-deprived this week) and Charlie came to join me (hallelujah!). When we woke up, Finn entered the room - Charlie jumped down and all was fine. Til Finn pounced Charlie again. Once again, it felt tense for a few seconds. I didn't intervene, just recorded, and the above scenario played out. Sorry about the low light - I tried to lighten it but it's grainy. Then a pic of the rolling-on-the-back-next-to-a-sulking-Finn moment.

Now that I've typed all this out, though, I just remembered that before I went to lay down, Finn did grab my ankle with claws like he did before he was socialized. So maybe it's not just challenging. Hmmm

Victor.jpg
 

Buffster7

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As to why, it could be something as challenging to know (for us, I mean) as a coming weather change.
That is so interesting that cats can be this temperamental. It's a whole new world to me. :lol:
 

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Wow, this has been an impressive topic. They are in the place together, finally. Looks like they are going through their cat routine and working things out like they do since cats are very smart as usual. That's pretty interesting, two tomcats that were previously alone. I would be surprise if the Finn cat doesn't also want out again to continue on with his outside ventures at least once in awhile. What an ordeal with the worms or other parasites, but it looks like everything is going to roll right along just fine with both cats!. Good job. Now you'll have two different cool personalities inside.
 

pearl99

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Oh my the tussle then Charlie raising his paw like "in case you're getting any ideas..." I had to smile (not about the tussle but about the paw raise.)
Love it "Charlie in all his glory..." and Finn in a meatloaf beside him. Not making light of the hard journey it's been, just those moments that cats make us smile :redtabby:.
 

Buffster7

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That's pretty interesting, two tomcats that were previously alone. I would be surprise if the Finn cat doesn't also want out again to continue on with his outside ventures at least once in awhile.
Thank you, and yes, Finn has been desperately wanting to go out for the last month, but I think he's finally starting to accept his sad, sorry fate of being a kept man - he still cries, but not as incessantly as he did at first. Climate controlled surroundings, lots of hidey-holes, fuzzy blankets, plentiful warm meals and fresh water...it's awful!
Oh my the tussle then Charlie raising his paw like "in case you're getting any ideas..." I had to smile (not about the tussle but about the paw raise.)
Love it "Charlie in all his glory..." and Finn in a meatloaf beside him. Not making light of the hard journey it's been, just those moments that cats make us smile
I know - I loved that part! It put a big grin on my face, too. Charlie has really surprised me by not abusing his power - I "need" him to keep winning these battles as the household is more peaceful when he's in charge and Finn accepts it.
This is what I imagine Charlie is thinking. Do not cross the invisible line! Halt! I will karate flip you again! I really feel they are still working out de tails.
And here I thought they had settled it - rookie mistake! And....karate flip..that's exactly what it is! My little ninja :lol:
 

pearl99

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Thank you, and yes, Finn has been desperately wanting to go out for the last month, but I think he's finally starting to accept his sad, sorry fate of being a kept man - he still cries, but not as incessantly as he did at first. Climate controlled surroundings, lots of hidey-holes, fuzzy blankets, plentiful warm meals and fresh water...it's awful!
Finn must be afraid he's going to go all soft and mushy in the muscles. Dwayne Johnson no more. What must the neighbor cats think!
 

Buffster7

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So after a weekend of constant tussling, flying fur, and 'working things out' (I was ready to start separating them when I left the house again based off their weekend behavior), I nearly fell over when I just looked up and saw this.

Thinking back, I had run out of my Bach's Vine when the tussling began. This morning I added my Bach's Chicory to their coats and a couple drops to their food while I wait for my next order of Vine to arrive. So for anyone who might read this and wonder if there's anything to the Bach's remedies, I do think they help:

FinnCharlie1.jpg
FinnCharlie2.jpg
 

pearl99

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Very wonderful. That is just heartwarming.
When you say you add the Vine to their coats, where do you put it?
With Gracie I have the multi-tier crate you used and am in the stage of having it out in the house by the glass patio door for a good portion of the day and my Mooshoo and Waffles (I've begun to refer to the two of them as Moofles) free in the house. But when starting the time together not being contained I'd like to have some Bach's on hand- whichever formula is called for- just in case.
 
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