I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

[Catzmeow]

Oh my gosh I hope somebody has an answer to this. My Shadow acts this way with me with the aggressive headbutting

 

[Buffster7]

Oh my gosh I hope somebody has an answer to this. My Shadow acts this way with me with the aggressive headbutting

Me too, girl, me too. Does Shadow purr when he/she does this? Do you have other cats, and are they interacting, yet?

 

[Jcatbird]

Sitting on you can be dominance. Also marking. He may be trying to own the world. Cats want to. Lol If they sit on my chest I roll them over to the side and snuggle. If I can I put them on their back to do this. It changes the position into one of trust and of me being loving but also the more dominant. Shared petting can be done when they are together. I don’t hiss at Precious. Bad reaction from him too. A calming voice, petting and reassurance for him because he is only aggressive when he feels his space is violated or he is swatted by another. Hissing works with some but not all.
If Finn wants out, try putting Charlie in for a bit. That gives Finn time to explore, find places to be without Charlie when both are out and a relaxing visit with Mom.

Hoping Finn is urinating okay now.

 

[Catzmeow]

Yes he does purr like crazy, and it sometimes ends up with a bite! I don't have any other cats but I do have 3 small dogs that I am worrying about integrating. They sniff at the doorway so far. I'm scared to let it go farther just yet. We did have cats in the family as well up until the last one passed about 1 1/2 years ago. They didn't start out feral however

 

[Buffster7]

Sitting on you can be dominance. Also marking. He may be trying to own the world. Cats want to. Lol If they sit on my chest I roll them over to the side and snuggle. If I can I put them on their back to do this. It changes the position into one of trust and of me being loving but also the more dominant. Shared petting can be done when they are together. I don’t hiss at Precious. Bad reaction from him too. A calming voice, petting and reassurance for him because he is only aggressive when he feels his space is violated or he is swatted by another. Hissing works with some but not all.
If Finn wants out, try putting Charlie in for a bit. That gives Finn time to explore, find places to be without Charlie when both are out and a relaxing visit with Mom.

Hoping Finn is urinating okay now.

This is all good to know! I am picking him up a lot (he has never minded it) - I heard that is a way to be "the mom" and is a dominant act. Last night whenever he sat on me, I rolled over just like you said. Good to have confirmation on this - thank you!

Today has been really interesting. I let Finn out quite a bit and it went decently well. I think I have a handle on what's going on now:
Finn often walks right up to Charlie and sniffs his face. Charlie gets scared and raises his paw. Finn doesn't take the hint and keeps sniffing, so Charlie swats him. This makes Finn mad and Finn pounces, then chases, then corners Charlie.
This happened a LOT today. I did see Charlie start to swat him once and then think the better of it - ha!! I honestly think that if Finn had any fear, he would be horribly bullied by Charlie. And I don't think Charlie's ever met a cat he couldn't bully before and it scares him.

The only thing I saw that concerned me was when it happened and Finn would not stop attacking - I saw him trying to bite Charlie while he was running away, and Charlie flipped on his back so he could use his back claws. I stomped and they broke apart.

And yes, Finn is peeing like a Russian racehorse today. I've never seen such big pee balls in his litter box before! I saw him drinking water for the first time today, too!

 

[Buffster7]

Yes he does purr like crazy, and it sometimes ends up with a bite! I don't have any other cats but I do have 3 small dogs that I am worrying about integrating. They sniff at the doorway so far. I'm scared to let it go farther just yet. We did have cats in the family as well up until the last one passed about 1 1/2 years ago. They didn't start out feral however

How long ago did you take him in? How old is he, do you know?
I thought Finn was a feral, but I think he was dumped as a young kitten because he tamed too fast to be feral, but he was too wild to have been a pet for long if ever. He's still terrified and hisses at everyone but me and won't let anyone but me come close. And so he has bonded with me and is very territorial/possessive of me, so we have to figure out a way to not be their "property" I guess?

Like Shadow, Finn was also a biter! the ladies here taught me to hiss at him when he bit. Amazing what a difference that made. Also to back off from the touching and snuggling for a while - too much too soon. It worked!

 

[Catzmeow]

We caught him and brought him in just over 3 months when he promptly escaped and was hiding in our cabin out back for a couple months. We finally got him fixed almost 6 weeks ago. I've spent lots of time with him every day and hubby works out of town so he bonded with me. I'll try to remember to hiss when bites. He was just cuddling with me so peacefully on the bed for the first time and I changed positions and snap, another bite

 

[Buffster7]

We caught him and brought him in just over 3 months when he promptly escaped and was hiding in our cabin out back for a couple months. We finally got him fixed almost 6 weeks ago. I've spent lots of time with him every day and hubby works out of town so he bonded with me. I'll try to remember to hiss when bites. He was just cuddling with me so peacefully on the bed for the first time and I changed positions and snap, another bite

If you look at page 16 on this thread, I think that's when I was struggling with the biting, and you can read the great advice I got and see if it applies to you. It can be so disconcerting to get bit! Hopefully your guy will settle in and start learning boundaries, lessening his fear. The hissing was the trick for me on the biting - along with the ignoring him for a while after.

 

[Buffster7]

I am starting to think I made a big mistake in bringing Finn inside. He is just not making progress with Charlie. Every time I let him out of his room to explore, he seems to be intent on hunting Charlie, and it ends with him being put back into his room because of a tussle. Every. Single. Time. Yesterday he was out, I was on the phone, and I heard yelps coming from the next room. They separated when I entered the room, but there was fur on Charlie (his own, just a small tuft) and Finn's fur was wet like Charlie's mouth had been on it. Separated for a while, then tried again later, and Finn went straight for him.

Finn has been in his room all day today - other than feedings w/ them nose-to-nose w/ barrier in place. Tonight when I let him out, he was out for no more than 10 minutes when he charged Charlie. Charlie yelped and ran, Finn went after him. Charlie hissed and swatted, and Finn was positioning himself to jump on Charlie. I'd had enough - he's back in his room. It truly feels like he's ready to just go all out and it is REALLY hard to get his attention, to stop him. I just wonder why he doesn't attack Charlie the minute he leaves his room? Why does he mosey around the house for a few minutes first, passing Charlie several times before he decides to target him? If they were evenly matched I may be tempted to let them go and see what happens. But with Charlie being old and fat and not having claws and Finn being young and agile and "armed", Charlie is the one who would be more likely to sustain the damage.

I am feeling kind of crushed. I really really want this to work. Finn is so smart and is so affectionate toward me, and I'm attached to him. I've invested so much time, emotion, energy, and money into this process. Now I've 'tamed' this cat that appears to want to attack my resident cat at every opportunity. I love Finn, but I love Charlie more, and every time he attacks Charlie I feel myself getting more and more fed up. I feel like I've made an enormous mistake and I don't know what to do about it.

 

[shadowsrescue]

Remember it really has not been that long at all. The first feral I brought inside took one year to work things out with my resident cat. You did not make a mistake. Finn is living inside where he is safe and loved. He does not have to worry about the dangers of the outside world. He and Charlie may not get along yet, but they need time. Lots of time. It takes dedication and work. Cats do not work at the human pace. They need lots and lots and lots of time..

How about backing up and just allowing them sight visits. Whenever the cats I have brought inside have had issues it is because I rushed the process. It was me that wanted them integrated and living together as perfect loving kitties who love each other as much as I love them. When I back up and moved at a very slow pace, things settled down. I know you are back in school and need/want them integrated. They have other ideas right now. Just allow them to be ok and safe in the space.

Try backing off. Keep your emotions in check. I felt the same way when my feral, Marvin attacked and went after my resident cat Jake. It was heart breaking. I thought over and over, "What have I done?". Yet I saved Marvin from a life of living outside in the dangers. It took us a year and then another 6 months before they started to play and really enjoy each other. Now years later, they are buddies.

Please please do not give up. Look for the good in both. Be ok with taking a step back. I truly believe it will all work out.

 

[Jcatbird]

How is the urinary issue with Finn? My honest opinion is that all this moved a bit too rapidly. Finn has been sick and it just isn’t easy to blend them until both cats are calm. Being sick prevents calm.
If it were me, I would back up. Fresh start with new outlook. Maybe using the cage for now instead of letting Finn roam free when he comes out. They have no issues at all when there is a barrier. Well.... that means they don’t have impossible issues. No hatred. We all want the blending to happen quickly and smoothly. It just doesn’t usually work that way. Re inflate yourself. I think it’s still okay. Nearly everyone who has done this will tell you two steps forward and one back is the rule and not the exception. I am betting that Finn needs more recovery time where he feels safe. I know he wants out but out needs to feel safe. The cage could work. Don’t give up, just backbup.

 

[Jcatbird]

Oh boy! I just crossed posts with shadowrescue. Feel any better after reading both? It really is true that we just have to back up at times. I have done it here more than once. Don’t see it as a setback but just another part of the process.
I have one kitty that acted nearly tame until I sent her to be spayed. She went the same day as four others including her colony mates/sisters. When they returned all acted much as they had before they left after a couple of days except her. She was really upset and would not let me pick her up or even touch her. I felt awful. Like I had betrayed her trust even though I knew it had to be done. I used all my trucks to try and work with her. She looked to Callie for protection and affection instead of me. She hid from me. Finally I was able to touch her while petting her colony mate. It took another cat to show her I could be trusted again. It took time and patience and I was often worried but now..... she loves belly scratches. Don’t give up.

 

[rubysmama]

Buffster7 : Just posting to let you know I'm still reading, and supporting you.

 

[Buffster7]

Thank you ladies for your response. I was so wiped out last night that I didn't have the energy to respond before bed.

Try backing off. Keep your emotions in check. I felt the same way when my feral, Marvin attacked and went after my resident cat Jake. It was heart breaking. I thought over and over, "What have I done?". Yet I saved Marvin from a life of living outside in the dangers. It took us a year and then another 6 months before they started to play and really enjoy each other. Now years later, they are buddies.

Well, this is encouraging. I can't imagine doing this for a year (!) but if I knew that things would work out in the end, I would. As for keeping the emotions in check, I hear that. I had to leave Finn's room last night; after his last attack on Charlie I was so disgusted that I didn't even want to be in the room with him, all the while knowing how ridiculous it was, I just couldn't. I thought better to leave him alone than to try to spend time with him while feeling disgust.

How is the urinary issue with Finn?

Finn is just fine - peeing like a champ. I think we caught it right when it started and the pee part is great. He does still have diarrhea, though, and we have our follow-up vet appointment this week.

Maybe using the cage for now instead of letting Finn roam free when he comes out.

The problem is that Finn won't tolerate the cage now that he's tasted freedom. In fact, since he's had a taste of the house, he wails incessantly any time he hears me moving around. The wailing changes depending on his mood. I will post a vid I took last night with his sad sounding wailing. Other times he screeches and it sounds ANGRY. He wants OUT. When I put him in the cage he looks at me like I'm punishing him and cries and cries.

They have no issues at all when there is a barrier.

Well, they don't as long as there is food involved. When there is no food, Finn will still charge Charlie through the barrier.

Just posting to let you know I'm still reading, and supporting you.

Thank you, sweet lady. I truly appreciate that.

Here's a vid of Finn crying through the door last night. This was before the altercation:

 

[Talien]

If it's affecting you that strongly you may want to consider rehoming Finn, you being stressed out like that is not exactly good for trying to integrate them. If you can find a friend, co-worker, or someone who lives near you to take him in then he'll have a good home even if it's not with you.

 

[Buffster7]

If it's affecting you that strongly you may want to consider rehoming Finn, you being stressed out like that is not exactly good for trying to integrate them. If you can find a friend, co-worker, or someone who lives near you to take him in then he'll have a good home even if it's not with you.

Trust me, I have thought of everyone in my life as a potential home for Finn, and I've come up empty. My nerves are actually much better when they're out, I just can't watch them interact- I have to busy myself doing something and then we're fine. It's when I hear the yelping that I go step in. It's always Charlie yelping - I don't hear aggressive noises, just defensive noises. And that breaks my heart.
However, I'm not willing to rehome Finn if this is simply a time issue. If there's a good possibility of them being able to work through this with time, I will do that. What I'm not willing to do is continue to try integrating two males who will always hate each other (or rather, one hate the other). That's no quality of life for any of us. I can give it another month or two, but I don't have another year of living like this in me.

 

[Buffster7]

Right now Charlie is sitting outside of Finn's door calling/chirping to him. Wish I could get a video of it, but he stops when I take out my phone. I feel that he really wants Finn in the house. He lays outside Finn's room every night when I go in to play with Finn and watches (I leave Finn's door open with shelving and Finn won't try escape as long as I'm in the room with him), and does zoomies around the house when I come out. I just can't figure out why Finn is so hostile toward Charlie. If we can solve that, then this can work.

 

[rubysmama]

This thread has gotten so long, I can't remember if you've tried Feliway, or calming treats/collars?

 

[Buffster7]

This thread has gotten so long, I can't remember if you've tried Feliway, or calming treats/collars?

Yes, I have 5 feliway/comfort zone diffusers strategically placed throughout the house; one in Finn's room, one in my/Charlie's room, and then 3 throughout the rest of the house.

 

[Buffster7]

Here's audio of Charlie standing outside Finn's room right now. Volume would need to be turned up to hear: